DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[MinusTheBear]

Craigsub got banned for single reason:

• He publically posted my PM to him on a forum without my permission to instigate a flame war against this site

I originally sent him that PM as sort of a friendly warning / joke (hence the term pimping) b/c people were complaining about him promoting his own products on our forums. Not even our advertisers do that!

As for him advertising, actually I wouldn't allow it on my site. A company has to be well established with our community of readers for more than 1 year before I would even consider it. We've turned down many advertisers in the past that don't qualify as a result.

If you feel the integrity of this site has been compromised by the separately run E-store, than I strongly encourage you to read other A/V websites. In fact, regardless of what you think of us, its always a good idea to get other opinions.

Its a shame that Craigsub had to take private conversations that he had with you and post them publically. This shows the lack of integrity and respect he has for others. Based on the nature of the PM in which you described above, that should be kept between just the two of you. Its a shame he has to act like a little baby.

 

[jongaro]

Craigsub got banned for single reason:

• He publically posted my PM to him on a forum without my permission to instigate a flame war against this site

I originally sent him that PM as sort of a friendly warning / joke (hence the term pimping) b/c people were complaining about him promoting his own products on our forums. Not even our advertisers do that!

As for him advertising, actually I wouldn't allow it on my site. A company has to be well established with our community of readers for more than 1 year before I would even consider it. We've turned down many advertisers in the past that don't qualify as a result.

If you feel the integrity of this site has been compromised by the separately run E-store, than I strongly encourage you to read other A/V websites. In fact, regardless of what you think of us, its always a good idea to get other opinions.

well, there must be something wrong with us if we disagreed with craig because he is never wrong.

Gene, you mean you expect a company to have more than two products available to advertise? that seems utterly unrealistic I don't often look at who advertises with you guys, sorry, but didn't you guys stop SVS from advertising. boy, I miss the days of the SVS vs HSU debate.

I don't think I would go as far as integrity of the site, but it has become less and less interesting to visit. I remember that it seemed like you guys were always reviewing products, tech articles, etc. Now, I rarely find things that make me want to stay longer.

I also wonder about a conflict of interest if you are reviewing products that are listed for sale on your site, or those of competitors. Like the views of craigsub, I see this site now biased by the fact that they sell equipment. We can't gauge how unbiased you, or your reviewers are, because of this fact. Kinda like audio magazines saying how great every product they review is because that company advertises with them.

And yes, I visit other sites now because of the lack of content here.

 

[jongaro]

Its a shame that Craigsub had to take private conversations that he had with you and post them publically. This shows the lack of integrity and respect he has for others. Based on the nature of the PM in which you described above, that should be kept between just the two of you. Its a shame he has to act like a little baby.

simply to play devils advocate, craig i believe makes the same accusations of either clint of gene. sorry, can't remember which one he referenced.

although this has been said before, it might be relevant now. everyone posting here has a agenda and we are only getting bits and pieces of what really happened or was said... be it from craig, clint/gene, myself, you, etc.

 

[bandphan]

well, there must be something wrong with us if we disagreed with craig because he is never wrong.

Gene, you mean you expect a company to have more than two products available to advertise? that seems utterly unrealistic I don't often look at who advertises with you guys, sorry, but didn't you guys stop SVS from advertising. boy, I miss the days of the SVS vs HSU debate.

I don't think I would go as far as integrity of the site, but it has become less and less interesting to visit. I remember that it seemed like you guys were always reviewing products, tech articles, etc. Now, I rarely find things that make me want to stay longer.

I also wonder about a conflict of interest if you are reviewing products that are listed for sale on your site, or those of competitors. Like the views of craigsub, I see this site now biased by the fact that they sell equipment. We can't gauge how unbiased you, or your reviewers are, because of this fact. Kinda like audio magazines saying how great every product they review is because that company advertises with them.

And yes, I visit other sites now because of the lack of content here.

Im prettty sure Gene's reviews put all products through the gauntlet, adv or not. Most members do a have well received reputations and offer good subjective and objective advice and reviews, I also have noticed many will not send products for review (objective) because of the strenious testing. I stoped reading print mags because every review is rosey, I dont think that is the case here, jmo

edit: out of your post history why even bother

 

[Alex2507]

I notice that Tom Andy's involvement has been downplayed to the point where the cover up is so glaringly obvious that it's insulting! Just how stupid do you guys think I am?

 

[jongaro]

Im prettty sure Gene's reviews put all products through the gauntlet, adv or not. Most members do a have well received reputations and offer good subjective and objective advice and reviews, I also have noticed many will not send products for review (objective) because of the strenious testing. I stoped reading print mags because every review is rosey, I dont think that is the case here, jmo

edit: out of your post history why even bother

His do, but I don't see how you can be as objective if you are also selling those items on your website. So it is clear, I am not saying they do anything, but I wonder how subjective they are. The same could be said about print reviews.

I remember how many doubted craigs ratings, especially after the mfw debacle, after it became known that they crossed paths on a business level.

The bottom line is that we don't know. Didn't we go to war on bogus information?

 

[Adam]

I notice that Tom Andy's involvement has been downplayed to the point where the cover up is so glaringly obvious that it's insulting! Just how stupid do you guys think I am?

After Tom being swayed by Monster cable, who can blame them for trying to keep him in the background? They're just trying to limit the shame. It's like those girls who go study in Europe for nine months and come back with a baby sister.

 

[jongaro]

I notice that Tom Andy's involvement has been downplayed to the point where the cover up is so glaringly obvious that it's insulting! Just how stupid do you guys think I am?

what are you referring to?

 

[Alex2507]

what are you referring to?

It wouldn't be much of a cover up if I just laid it all out, now would it?

Look at my avatar and you'll quickly understand that I am not to be taken seriously ... except for the point that I am about to make now. If you cared to do a little more reading you would find that Gene is currently criticizing a major manufacturer that the AH store does carry. So that stuff about glowing reviews for products that they sell is ... wrong.

 

[gene]

I don't think I would go as far as integrity of the site, but it has become less and less interesting to visit. I remember that it seemed like you guys were always reviewing products, tech articles, etc. Now, I rarely find things that make me want to stay longer.

I also wonder about a conflict of interest if you are reviewing products that are listed for sale on your site, or those of competitors. Like the views of craigsub, I see this site now biased by the fact that they sell equipment. We can't gauge how unbiased you, or your reviewers are, because of this fact. Kinda like audio magazines saying how great every product they review is because that company advertises with them.

And yes, I visit other sites now because of the lack of content here.

You might want to spend a little more time perusing this site. We still publish at least 5-6 reviews / mo and at least 2 tech articles/mo. I still write 8-10k word reviews on equipment with even more detail in my measurements now that I invested into the new 8CH HDMI Audio Analyzer from Audio Precision that costs over $40k fully loaded! Nobody else in the industry has this capability.

You seem to not comprehend that the Audioholics E-storeis much like any other advertiser on our site, particularly the online advertisers (axiom, emotiva, etc). It is treated just the same but we are also in the fortunate position of helping guide the E-store operators as to what equipment we think should go in there.

As for the E-store glowing reviews, you mean like these?

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/1500-2000-floor-shootout-2009

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/trading
(Note Yamaha is one of our biggest advertisers and e-store partners yet I singled them out in this article)

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/infinity-primus-p162

It becomes quite irritating that someone raises this concern (usually with a post count less than 50) every other month or so. Mods please try to dump these off into a centralized thread so we don't have to keep spinning our wheels with this crap everytime someone thinks they've uncovered a new conspiracy theory. Thanks.

That being said, this thread has derailed off topic. Lets try to get it back inline. You're welcome to continue this discussion in the Steam Vent where its more appropriate.

 

[Adam]

...everytime someone thinks they've uncovered a new conspiracy theory.

Forty years from now, people will still be debating the "single review theory." After all, everybody knows that there was a second reviewer on the grassy knoll.

 

[droht]

"F^%& 'em." ?!?

Is that what you're trying to do with that cable sale, you monkey?

Wait, that didn't come out right.

Damn, looks like a "double-whoops" there.

Actually, my "f 'em" was more like "If somebody doesn't like what you say, f 'em" than it was a shot at Audioholics. I have no problem with you folks, although I may if I spend more time here.

As for the cables, they are the finest bi-wires I have EVER heard. I can't believe that no one has jumped on that deal. I may have to register with a new user name on AgoN to sell the damn things after this...

 

[MinusTheBear]

Thank goodness Monster (glow in the dark) Mini Golf was able to meet your strict criteria for advertizing.

There is a lot of history between Monster Mini Golf and AH. A quick google search would show that. I really like that ad quite frankly and I see it as a reminder of how great the audioholics community is.

 

[jamie2112]

There is a lot of history between Monster Mini Golf and AH. A quick google search would show that. I really like that ad quite frankly and I see it as a reminder of how great the audioholics community is.

Well Freakin put Minus...........

 

[MidnightSensi]

Thank goodness Monster (glow in the dark) Mini Golf was able to meet your strict criteria for advertizing.

I wish there was one by me.

Glow in the dark mini-golf sounds ****in' sweet....maybe a bit of spliff, some beer, whatever your thing is, some acid, whateva... bit of mini-golf in the dark... sounds tits.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I wish there was one by me.

Glow in the dark mini-golf sounds ****in' sweet....maybe a bit of spliff, some beer, whatever your thing is, some acid, whateva... bit of mini-golf in the dark... sounds tits.

Ditto!!!

 

[jongaro]

You might want to spend a little more time perusing this site. We still publish at least 5-6 reviews / mo and at least 2 tech articles/mo. I still write 8-10k word reviews on equipment with even more detail in my measurements now that I invested into the new 8CH HDMI Audio Analyzer from Audio Precision that costs over $40k fully loaded! Nobody else in the industry has this capability.

You seem to not comprehend that the Audioholics E-storeis much like any other advertiser on our site, particularly the online advertisers (axiom, emotiva, etc). It is treated just the same but we are also in the fortunate position of helping guide the E-store operators as to what equipment we think should go in there.

As for the E-store glowing reviews, you mean like these?

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/1500-2000-floor-shootout-2009

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/trading
(Note Yamaha is one of our biggest advertisers and e-store partners yet I singled them out in this article)

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/infinity-primus-p162

It becomes quite irritating that someone raises this concern (usually with a post count less than 50) every other month or so. Mods please try to dump these off into a centralized thread so we don't have to keep spinning our wheels with this crap everytime someone thinks they've uncovered a new conspiracy theory. Thanks.

That being said, this thread has derailed off topic. Lets try to get it back inline. You're welcome to continue this discussion in the Steam Vent where its more appropriate.

Gene, you kinda sound like craig. If someone disagrees or has a opinion different than yours, you do something to try to discredit or belittle them

For years I didn't post anything because I felt content to just read. Don't be upset because your site isn't as interesting as it use to be. well, at least to me.

So you'd like the thread back to trashing av123?

 

[nibhaz]

Really?

Now you are going to complain because Gene provided examples of his own reviews and articles where his opinion or findings conflicted with the interest of the Audioholic’s store.

Providing facts is now a personal attack?

Administrators and mods steering threads back to the OP…must be a conspiracy.

 

[Alex2507]

 

[Cruise Missile]

We should re-title this thread to " fanboys unite! "

Some people just never learn.