wah wah red chicklet + politics thread

Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
this is a discusssion and to disagree is fine

I notice the title got changed LOL to "wah wah red chicklet + politcal thread" nice way to throw gasoline on the fire for the OP, me.

Disagreement is fine, but cheap comment unsigned red chicklites is cowardly and meaningless

"How many times on how many boards does this drivel have to be reposted?"

"think then post"


=====


well you know now Hilter was a bad person, but when did you first see the signs he was bad. Socailism is just a step away from Hilter's perfect race.

When a person doesn't understand economics and how wealth creates jobs then we are in trouble.

If you think getting something for nothing is the solution, then tell me why wleware and food stamps doesn't work?

Red chicklets are fine, but why not sign them ? Oh afraid of retribution ; don't worry I'm not that way, and rep points are just rep points. I help people when I can on audio and electrical questions and express my opinion when I feel like it. I also come here mainly for HT information and tidbits.

I understand politics are politics and everyone has their own strong bias and feelings. I guess I have some strong feelings since Barack's economy model cost me my job. The one thing I just don't understand is why no one has vetted or review him and whyhe is still the media's golden boy.

Later,

MidCow2
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Not much different from presenting populist ideas and calling themselves 'Democrat', to keep from being called 'Socialist', in order to win the election, eh?
Sure... Just like calling domestic spying "listening in on the evil doers." Or claiming fiscal responsibility and doubling the debt. Is your point that all politicians say one thing and do another or relabel things? I aleady knew that. Doesn't make them all new Hitlers. Difference here is that Obama is actually doing what he said.

I've read some pretty fun stuff this past week. Italians are socialists and the Nazis were super liberals, LOL.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I understand politics are politics and everyone has their own strong bias and feelings. I guess I have some strong feelings since Barack's economy model cost me my job. The one thing I just don't understand is why no one has vetted or review him and why he is still the media's golden boy.

Later,

MidCow2
I think you answered your own question. By being the media's Golden Boy, he wasn't put to much scrutiny because the media wanted him to win. Did you notice that he basically allowed only the information about himself that he wanted to be released? He sure seemed to be on a fast track to approval, IMO. Denying this is just being oblivious to that fact. He won't stop being their guy unless he does something really, really bad and it's indisputable.

Sorry to see that you lost your job- hopefully something better will come along.
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you think getting something for nothing is the solution, then tell me why wleware and food stamps doesn't work?
If you think that's what socialism is, you obviously put more stock into what the media-fueled fever defines as socialism and what the people that actually envisioned the system originally intended it to be. I said it before and I'll say it again, the problem isn't the systems themselves, it's always the people in the systems. Just like the "lazy" exploit socialist principles, the greedy exploit capitalism. Someone gets sh*tted on them by someone else, due to the inherent strife of people. The only difference is in who does the sh*tting and who gets the sh*t.

The very basis of socialism is cooperative prosperity for the collective benefit of all, not "Since you people work your a$$es off to pay taxes, I'll mooch off the system." or "Since we have all the money and political power, we'll do whatever we want to make even greater profits, such as forgetting national loyalty and outsourcing or allowing the underqualified yet connected individuals to be the only ones to rise to real wealth." Again, the failure of all systems is in the PEOPLE and the way they practice it. Socialism has NOTHING to do with everyone getting paid the same, and whoever thinks otherwise needs to watch TV less and read more.

How many people on this board live in socialist economies and still buy their high end theaters? Guess it isn't working out too shabby for you, huh? :)
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Sure... Just like calling domestic spying "listening in on the evil doers." Or claiming fiscal responsibility and doubling the debt. Is your point that all politicians say one thing and do another or relabel things? I aleady knew that. Doesn't make them all new Hitlers. Difference here is that Obama is actually doing what he said.

I've read some pretty fun stuff this past week. Italians are socialists and the Nazis were super liberals, LOL.
No, they're not all Hitlers but rather than running a campaign where he says "We live in the greatest nation in history, now help me change it", "Change we can count on" and all of that stuff, coupled with everyone calling it "An historical election" to get everyone all gooey and excited, a more rational approach would have slowed the pace a bit. When you have this many people excited about things, a stampede isn't exactly what's needed. The GOP really screwed up in the last two terms, a lot of people got what they shouldn't have and a lot lost what they shouldn't have but it's never all one person or party at fault.

Obama railed on the Bush admin for doubling the debt and now, he just tripled it in a much shorter time. I don't see how we'll ever dig out of this hole. The bailouts help put money into the lenders' coffers but there aren't many details to the plans. It was done too quickly, IMO and that will make it easy for some to benefit, when they have no right to.

What we're doing here isn't much different from Congress- debate without agreement. Some common areas but different views completely, and it doesn't really accomplish much, unfortunately.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
So, now the burning question is...

Who changed the title, and why? My take? That was a pretty petty move.
 
1

10010011

Senior Audioholic
Disagreement is fine, but cheap comment unsigned red chicklites is cowardly and meaningless

"How many times on how many boards does this drivel have to be reposted?"
I have seen this same post on several of the boards I visit already. It's like all you Conservatives belong to the same email list or something and get told to "post this everywhere", so you do.

When are you going to post the one with the ten guys drinking beer that pay the way taxes are paid?
 
Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
some really lowlife ... signed "Mr. Duh"

"Here's one more, please keep complaining about the chicklet - signed by duh!"

Thank you so much, I really value you comments and opinions. I hope ypu Bose system and monster cables help improve you outlook on life and allow you to obtain your GED with you latest socialism rebate check why the try to forclose on your mansion you can pay for and your Caddilac with 22 inch wheels.

Actually your unsigned comments do not bother me ,because I take the value of the comment with the intelligence and the integrity of the commentor, in this case very,very low. If it looks like a morn, sound like a moron, then it is either a moron or not worth worrying about :)

Have a nice day, Mr duh :) I think your signature says it all!

Later,

MidCow2
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
"Here's one more, please keep complaining about the chicklet - signed by duh!"

Thank you so much, I really value you comments and opinions. I hope ypu Bose system and monster cables help improve you outlook on life and allow you to obtain your GED with you latest socialism rebate check why the try to forclose on your mansion you can pay for and your Caddilac with 22 inch wheels.

Actually your unsigned comments do not bother me ,because I take the value of the comment with the intelligence and the integrity of the commentor, in this case very,very low. If it looks like a morn, sound like a moron, then it is either a moron or not worth worrying about :)

Have a nice day, Mr duh :) I think your signature says it all!

Later,

MidCow2
While it is fairly petty that people leave you reds without a name your actions speak louder than your words.

If you didn't care about the situation why complain about every red you get publicly? Additionally, if it didn't matter why go on to insult the unknown chiclet giver? Saying something while your actions contradict that is a real way to show you are the "better" person.

If you really did not care we (the collective forum) would never know you got those reds.

Back to your regularly scheduled political thread created with the intent to inflame via rhetoric and ignorance.
 
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Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
Actually Iunderstand socialism and economics very,very well!

If you think that's what socialism is, you obviously put more stock into what the media-fueled fever defines as socialism and what the people that actually envisioned the system originally intended it to be. I said it before and I'll say it again, the problem isn't the systems themselves, it's always the people in the systems. Just like the "lazy" exploit socialist principles, the greedy exploit capitalism. Someone gets sh*tted on them by someone else, due to the inherent strife of people. The only difference is in who does the sh*tting and who gets the sh*t.

The very basis of socialism is cooperative prosperity for the collective benefit of all, not "Since you people work your a$$es off to pay taxes, I'll mooch off the system." or "Since we have all the money and political power, we'll do whatever we want to make even greater profits, such as forgetting national loyalty and outsourcing or allowing the underqualified yet connected individuals to be the only ones to rise to real wealth." Again, the failure of all systems is in the PEOPLE and the way they practice it. Socialism has NOTHING to do with everyone getting paid the same, and whoever thinks otherwise needs to watch TV less and read more.

How many people on this board live in socialist economies and still buy their high end theaters? Guess it isn't working out too shabby for you, huh? :)
Contrare Nemo128, I understand socialism and economics very,very well. I was tongue-in-cheek throwing out a perspective that some could possibly understand. So the answer in PEOPLE, maybe it is the greed of people "What is in it for me?" Actually it may not be the cause,but it is the resulting end result when you begin to provide everything from the government, welfare, bail-out, redrtibution of wealth through tazxes, govenrment control of auto companies, government control of retriement 401Ks, goverment providing health care. Do you even understand the purpose of a recession and why governement should not be involved ? Do you even understand trickle down economics versus bottom up economics ? Do you understand the balance of trade? Do you understand the long term effects of defect spending ? Do you understand what causes inflation ?

LOL, you answer is almost humorous, except that you meant it to be serious. Maybe you should look to Dilbert for guidance :D

Okay convince me that a "fiducial responsible liberal" is not an oxymoron

Okay convince me that "truth in advertising" applies to current media news reporting.

Take care,

MidCow2

P.S.- Who do you trust to manage your social security and 401K ?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have seen this same post on several of the boards I visit already. It's like all you Conservatives belong to the same email list or something and get told to "post this everywhere", so you do.

When are you going to post the one with the ten guys drinking beer that pay the way taxes are paid?
When are "all you Liberals" going to stop talking down to "all us Conservatives" like you have all of the answers?

Raising taxes to fund spiraling spending is no way to treat taxpayers. Making people dependent on government takes the incentive away from people who should be helping themselves.

Tell me the liberal boards don't do the same thing. I dare you.

Why can't the government just make it easier for people to help themselves, instead of giving them everything, hand-holding and telling them that the Big Bad Republicans are out to get them?

No party has the right to say they do everything in the best interest of the public.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
No, they're not all Hitlers but rather than running a campaign where he says "We live in the greatest nation in history, now help me change it", "Change we can count on" and all of that stuff, coupled with everyone calling it "An historical election" to get everyone all gooey and excited, a more rational approach would have slowed the pace a bit. When you have this many people excited about things, a stampede isn't exactly what's needed. The GOP really screwed up in the last two terms, a lot of people got what they shouldn't have and a lot lost what they shouldn't have but it's never all one person or party at fault.

Obama railed on the Bush admin for doubling the debt and now, he just tripled it in a much shorter time. I don't see how we'll ever dig out of this hole. The bailouts help put money into the lenders' coffers but there aren't many details to the plans. It was done too quickly, IMO and that will make it easy for some to benefit, when they have no right to.

What we're doing here isn't much different from Congress- debate without agreement. Some common areas but different views completely, and it doesn't really accomplish much, unfortunately.
All reasonable positions.

Obama happens to have the ability to get people gooey and excited and he knows that's the key to passing legislation in his first term so that it takes effect before 2012. This is just politics and he's pressing his advantage. All politicians throughout our history have done the same.

With regards to the debt, Bush increasing the debt arguably did little for the overall economy. It's basically $5 trillion wasted. Granted, there's plenty of lousy spending in Obama's plans, but there are tons of good investments in there too.

I see two schools of thoughts regarding the debt. The first believes we should cut spending and give more money to the people. The second believes we should investment in the future and attempt to outgrow the debt. Both positions are valid and have their merit. I believe in the latter for the following reasons:

1. Tax cuts won't help the 6 million out-of-work.
2. Raising the tax on gains from real estate sales is moot as if the economy doesn't grow, no profits will be had.
3. I personally never tighten my belt. When more money is needed, I find a way to make it. I think if we cut, cut, cut, we'll fall behind and lose momentum.
4. Investing in long-term projects like energy, healthcare, etc makes sense now as it'll cost 10 times as much later. The longer we put it off, the worst off we'll be. Think about it, you go into heavy debt so you can get a medical degree. It's stupid economically at the present, but it makes sense to do so as the reward later will be larger rendering that debt moot.
5. Tax cuts for the top 10% won't spur as much growth these days as it's now a global economy.
6. Cutting benefits to the elderly just isn't right.


There are plenty others, but I'm just throwing out some off the top-of-my-head. The bottom line is, everyone has to go into debt to get ahead. Most of us have mortgages, student loans, etc... If we waited till we had cash, very few would have anything. Of course there's a balance to be had here. Government is no different.

I'm not a socialist, but do believe we need some government programs. I believe healthcare should go to the government and I do believe the government should hold a stake in any companies bailed out. We may argue about giving a bailout or not, but if we do, we should have a say. If we don't like what they do, we can vote politicians out. With business in control, we can't vote them out. All we can do is stop buying their product and hope others will follow suit. Fat chance when so many fall for tricks that Bose and Monster use. Many feel that government is terrible at managing things and that's warranted, but they also get some things right. For example, the student loan programs the government offers are excellent.

Overall, if healthcare goes to the government and the tax rates go back to where they were pre-Bush, I don't think that's socialism.
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
There is such a thing as due diligence. Why did those buyers accept those securities as AAA without even looking at what they contained. There is a mutual blame involved here. On the seller's part marketing the securities fraudulently and the buyer's accepting the securities without due diligence. I mean, if somebody wants to sell me a car and tells me it's a Cadillac, I'm going to make darn sure I know what a Cadillac looks like. But if he rolls back the odometer and deliberately commits a fraud, I may find out too late and take a loss.
Packaged securities are hardly a car you can pop the hood on and kick the tires. Such a weak analog is no analog at all. Nice try though.

None of what you said resolves the fact of a 62 Trillion dollar market, a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme, or an insurance company so large that it can't be allowed to fail.

Banks lobbied hard (that means greased a lot of palms) so they could be allowed to also get into the securitization business (when previously they were expressly forbid to do so). Big business got what it wanted via lobbyists.

Public domain and copyright? Isn't that something you should be taking up with your gov't or does Disney make the laws of the land now. Such laws are passed by politicians elected by average citizens, yet the citizens and politicians are rarely held accountable and some generic anti-big-business mantra demonizes businesses that follow the law as enacted by the elected gov't.
Quite correct in that our government has failed us in that regard. Short term patent and copyright was originally intended to inure to the short term benefit of the creator. The long term benefit to civilization in general.

Google for Senator Disney...


You have liberty from big business. You have no reason on earth to deal with a big business. Big business only exists by people like you giving them money in exchange for a product or service. Ben Franklin has most certainly given you freedom from big business with your choice to walk away. If you ask business people, they are asking for freedom from gov't and the petty whims of the citizens who seek to limit their legitimate enterprise. I truly hope that your occupation isn't on the next list of activities people want "freedom" from.
No you don't have liberty from Big Business. When was the last time you could make a legal backup/copy of a DVD that you owned?
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
I am a libertarian by nature, and abhor the idea of the government controlling my life, especially in health care.

Here are some questions to ponder. And please, no links to Michael Moore videos for answers.

1. If the government takes over health care, it will be government policy to decide who gets the care. Let's say the government decides no doctor will make over $150,000 per year. Let's also say some of the best doctors we have today currently make $600,000. They look at the new program, and decide to retire.

The question ... Are we going to make it illegal for them to leave the profession ?

2. My son is a type one diabetic. I see to it that my wife spends whatever she needs to keep him in test strips. Let's say the government plan allows only 2 strips per day, or 60 per month, and since we have to make things "fair", I am not allowed to purchase additional strips as I do today.

Will I then be an outlaw for wanting to provide the best care I can afford for my son ?

3. We pass national health care, which is fully funded by taxpayers. Are taxpayers then going to have the "right" to impose basic health requirements on the citizens as a group ? For example, according to the Body Mass Index charts, a 6 foot tall man weighing 225 pounds is OBESE.

Will we require that this man lose 30 pounds to get his weight closer to normal ?

4. If we take the profit motive out of research and developement of new drugs and treatments:

Where will the next generation of life saving medicines come from ?

Next ... There have been a lot of statements made here such as "tax cuts won't create jobs". A question on this ...

5. A successful person makes $500,000 per year. Let's look at 2 tax rates, 30% and 50%. At 30%, he has $350,000 to spend buying things. At 50%, he has $250,000.

Is it a sound position that this $100,000 going into the economy won't create jobs ?

6. It was mentioned we don't have freedom from business because one cannot reproduce a DVD one owns. When buying the DVD, you get all the use of that DVD for as many times as you wish to use it. If making copies of DVDs was made legal ...

Why would any company bother with all the expense of putting out the DVD ?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
With regards to the debt, Bush increasing the debt arguably did little for the overall economy. It's basically $5 trillion wasted. Granted, there's plenty of lousy spending in Obama's plans, but there are tons of good investments in there too.

I see two schools of thoughts regarding the debt. The first believes we should cut spending and give more money to the people. The second believes we should investment in the future and attempt to outgrow the debt. Both positions are valid and have their merit. I believe in the latter for the following reasons:

1. Tax cuts won't help the 6 million out-of-work.
2. Raising the tax on gains from real estate sales is moot as if the economy doesn't grow, no profits will be had.
3. I personally never tighten my belt. When more money is needed, I find a way to make it. I think if we cut, cut, cut, we'll fall behind and lose momentum.
4. Investing in long-term projects like energy, healthcare, etc makes sense now as it'll cost 10 times as much later. The longer we put it off, the worst off we'll be. Think about it, you go into heavy debt so you can get a medical degree. It's stupid economically at the present, but it makes sense to do so as the reward later will be larger rendering that debt moot.
5. Tax cuts for the top 10% won't spur as much growth these days as it's now a global economy.
6. Cutting benefits to the elderly just isn't right.


There are plenty others, but I'm just throwing out some off the top-of-my-head. The bottom line is, everyone has to go into debt to get ahead. Most of us have mortgages, student loans, etc... If we waited till we had cash, very few would have anything. Of course there's a balance to be had here. Government is no different.

I'm not a socialist, but do believe we need some government programs. I believe healthcare should go to the government and I do believe the government should hold a stake in any companies bailed out. We may argue about giving a bailout or not, but if we do, we should have a say. If we don't like what they do, we can vote politicians out. With business in control, we can't vote them out. All we can do is stop buying their product and hope others will follow suit. Fat chance when so many fall for tricks that Bose and Monster use. Many feel that government is terrible at managing things and that's warranted, but they also get some things right. For example, the student loan programs the government offers are excellent.

Overall, if healthcare goes to the government and the tax rates go back to where they were pre-Bush, I don't think that's socialism.
Unemployment was at extremely low levels until the mortgage industry fell apart and the job cuts started. Inflation was extremely low, housing and real estate, while riding a bubble, was cruising along fine. The fault for the collapse falls on the heads of people who should never have applied for loans, knowing they might not be able to carry the debt, on the lenders who approved the loans based on a promise and the ability to fog a spoon and on Congress, for pressuring the lenders to approve high risk borrowers. Barney, Franklin and Chris did a helluva job of avoiding action when attention was brought to the emerging crisis, too. Once the money dried up, the rest were just collateral damage. Bush spent a lot, for sure, but he didn't cause the problems. I don't see, however, how 9000 earmarks in one bailout package will help, especially when I would bet that the vast majority of the earmarks have absolutely nothing to do with the bill they were attached to.

What's the difference between you never tightening your belt and Congress raising taxes because they can't stop spending like Patrick Ewing at Gold's, in Atlanta? They obviously can't reduce spending by a large amount in one shot, or over a short period because some of the money allocated hasn't been paid out yet but if they know tax revenue will drop, which it has to since so many lost their jobs and the real estate market has tanked in many areas, NOT adding trillions onto an already bloated budget isn't a bad idea. Taking a step back and giving everything a good, hard look is what we need right now.

1) Tax cuts help everyone. If they help the ones who lost their jobs, I don't have a problem with it but if revenue drops, something has to be cut back in order to balance it. There's a lot of waste in the government programs and we all know it. Tell Pelosi to account for all of her expenses and charge her for the ones that aren't necessary.

2) Moot point.

3) As I said, it can't be cut too much, too fast but the amount of waste in government is appalling. Stop waste and the budget will eventually fall in line.

4) We need these things but they can't be paid for in one shot. Incentives for alternative energy should never have stopped. Health care is a sticky issue and if you read the news, 9 people in TX accounted for some astronomical number of visits and expense. Illegals are a huge part of the burden for the health care industry too, regardless of which side you see that from. It's ugly and it 's not looking any better- the technological advances in medicine make it more expensive than it needs to be but unless hospitals and clinics can find some other way to finance them, the costs won't stop rising so fast.

5 & 6) I agree.

For the people who are genuinely unable to care for themselves, I don't have a problem with helping them- that's just the right thing to do. The problem I have with some programs is that they're a never-ending source of benefits for people who should be taking care of themselves but know that they can exploit the system for a long time under some internal rationalization that it's owed them. The entitlement mentality was caused by lax requirements and no way to effectively monitor whose benefits should have run out. These people are parasites on everyone and they don't give a damn.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I am a libertarian by nature, and abhor the idea of the government controlling my life, especially in health care.

Here are some questions to ponder. And please, no links to Michael Moore videos for answers.

1. If the government takes over health care, it will be government policy to decide who gets the care. Let's say the government decides no doctor will make over $150,000 per year. Let's also say some of the best doctors we have today currently make $600,000. They look at the new program, and decide to retire.

The question ... Are we going to make it illegal for them to leave the profession ?

2. My son is a type one diabetic. I see to it that my wife spends whatever she needs to keep him in test strips. Let's say the government plan allows only 2 strips per day, or 60 per month, and since we have to make things "fair", I am not allowed to purchase additional strips as I do today.

Will I then be an outlaw for wanting to provide the best care I can afford for my son ?

3. We pass national health care, which is fully funded by taxpayers. Are taxpayers then going to have the "right" to impose basic health requirements on the citizens as a group ? For example, according to the Body Mass Index charts, a 6 foot tall man weighing 225 pounds is OBESE.

Will we require that this man lose 30 pounds to get his weight closer to normal ?

4. If we take the profit motive out of research and developement of new drugs and treatments:

Where will the next generation of life saving medicines come from ?

Next ... There have been a lot of statements made here such as "tax cuts won't create jobs". A question on this ...

5. A successful person makes $500,000 per year. Let's look at 2 tax rates, 30% and 50%. At 30%, he has $350,000 to spend buying things. At 50%, he has $250,000.

Is it a sound position that this $100,000 going into the economy won't create jobs ?

6. It was mentioned we don't have freedom from business because one cannot reproduce a DVD one owns. When buying the DVD, you get all the use of that DVD for as many times as you wish to use it. If making copies of DVDs was made legal ...

Why would any company bother with all the expense of putting out the DVD ?
To your points 1 and 2: I don't know how to respond to such an absurd 'alternate future'. I won't deign it with a response.

To point 3: Most six foot people that are 225 are clinically obese (a BMI over 30). I think you will be required as an individual to purchase (out of pocket) supplemental insurance. Just like having a lead foot, you may have to pay higher insurance premiums because of points on your license.

To point 4: Who said there would be no profit motive for pharma? I think more people with access to health care would be a good thing for big pharma. I love how you now have PSA about teens using prescription drugs. Remember, pharma lobbied congress to be able to advertise all those solutions in a little pill. There is a direct correlation to illicit use of prescription by teens to advertising.

To point 5: Is that a real world example? How about if you make over 200K it's 30%, if you make over $500K it's 80%. Just because you propose a scheme doesn't mean that it has anything to do with what is really going on.

To point 6: I am surprised at your stance on this. I should have the same rights of Doctrine of First Sale' to duplicate a DVD as I do with CD or a Cassette.

After I purchase something I should be able to do with as I please with in Doctrine of First Sale and Fair Use. Anyways some one made the assertion that our liberties aren't affected by big business. Unfortunately for them a readily available example was on hand.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
1) Tax cuts help everyone. If they help the ones who lost their jobs, I don't have a problem with it but if revenue drops, something has to be cut back in order to balance it. There's a lot of waste in the government programs and we all know it. Tell Pelosi to account for all of her expenses and charge her for the ones that aren't necessary.

2) Moot point.

3) As I said, it can't be cut too much, too fast but the amount of waste in government is appalling. Stop waste and the budget will eventually fall in line.

4) We need these things but they can't be paid for in one shot. Incentives for alternative energy should never have stopped. Health care is a sticky issue and if you read the news, 9 people in TX accounted for some astronomical number of visits and expense. Illegals are a huge part of the burden for the health care industry too, regardless of which side you see that from. It's ugly and it 's not looking any better- the technological advances in medicine make it more expensive than it needs to be but unless hospitals and clinics can find some other way to finance them, the costs won't stop rising so fast.

5 & 6) I agree.

For the people who are genuinely unable to care for themselves, I don't have a problem with helping them- that's just the right thing to do. The problem I have with some programs is that they're a never-ending source of benefits for people who should be taking care of themselves but know that they can exploit the system for a long time under some internal rationalization that it's owed them. The entitlement mentality was caused by lax requirements and no way to effectively monitor whose benefits should have run out. These people are parasites on everyone and they don't give a damn.
1) I think the tax cut amounts to something like $13/week. I honestly don't see that helping the middle-class. The lower-class maybe, but $52/month won't make a difference to the majority IMO. We can agree to disagree.

3) I can't argue with you here. There is a lot waste in government. Doesn't matter who's in charge.

4) I personally always prefer to meet things head on. I say lets do it all and bear the pain. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to spread things over time. However, from a political perspective, it's likely Obama won't be able to pass additional programs later when his popularity falls and it will so he's pushing everything now.

I do agree that illegals are a problem and burden on the healthcare system. Ideally, not having so many illegals would solve this problem. Of course there are those who abuse a system, but I would think most people don't enjoy spending time at doctor's offices and hospitals. I know I do. A good system of checks a balances should be implemented.
------------

As for people who abuse the welfare system, I think my dad has a pretty good idea. Welfare sends a babysitter out to watch the children people couldn't afford to have and sends the parent(s) to work. Doesn't have to be a real job, picking up trash on the street, cleaning parks, etc... Deduct a portion of their check for childcare or simply withhold it. It's better than giving them check after check for nothing. Of course, I agree some truly need help and they should get it.
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
Midcow2, I would respond to your last post, but this:

I guess I have some strong feelings since Barack's economy model cost me my job.
basically made me realize there's no point in bothering to continue that line of discussion. You'll see it the way you see it no matter what anyone says, with no room for compromise or consideration, since you're now a "victim" of the "socialist agenda."
 
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