audyssey dynamic eq vs Behringer eq

[bandphan]

You have 6 outputs with the DCX - L / C / R / SW / SW / _

The Mic input is used to Auto-Align loudspeaker delay ... not RTA.

Or several other options.

 

[jinjuku]

You have 6 outputs with the DCX - L / C / R / SW / SW / _

The Mic input is used to Auto-Align loudspeaker delay ... not RTA.

I thought the limiting factor was the 3 inputs...

 

[lsiberian]

I thought the limiting factor was the 3 inputs...

It is the limiting factor, but you really don't need one for surrounds. You could probably just use a couple of BFDS for the surrounds. A BFD is another option that wasn't mentioned, but REW works with it as well. I would suggest at least adding a BFD to handle the subs. It seems everyone that adds one is amazed at the difference.

 

[jinjuku]

It is the limiting factor, but you really don't need one for surrounds. You could probably just use a couple of BFDS for the surrounds. A BFD is another option that wasn't mentioned, but REW works with it as well. I would suggest at least adding a BFD to handle the subs. It seems everyone that adds one is amazed at the difference.

So input 1: front left, input 2: front right, input 3: center channel, another DCX or BFD for the sub.

Does the BFD have the ability to act as a high pass filter to protect ported subs?

 

[lsiberian]

So input 1: front left, input 2: front right, input 3: center channel, another DCX or BFD for the sub.

Does the BFD have the ability to act as a high pass filter to protect ported subs?

I would have to look into the specs of it. As I've never used one, but I don't think it does. However you can always pair it with a crossover or even use an F-Mod.

If you use the DCX you should set your front 3 speakers to large and then hook up their pre-outs to the DCX. Then you hook up to 3 subs to 3 of the outputs and the amp for your 3 front speakers to the others.

If you use a BFD only. Then hook up the subwoofer pre-out to it and use REW from Home theater shack to EQ them both.

Of course their are many ways to do this. But what you do depends on your budget. If you are poor then just use a BFD on your two subs paired with a crossover and sub amp. A poor man's option might be an BFD, A 500, and a CX2310 most would be gotten used or ebayed.

if you have the funds then a DCX2496 is just an amazing device capable of do anything IMO. But it does take time and you might prefer the faster setup of only eqing the subs. Then letting your receiver handle everything else. I think for most rooms LFE is where the biggest issues occur and they can be the most difficult to deal with. dual subs with an eq should have a nice curve in a typical setup or listening room.

 

[jinjuku]

I would have to look into the specs of it. As I've never used one, but I don't think it does. However you can always pair it with a crossover or even use an F-Mod.

If you use the DCX you should set your front 3 speakers to large and then hook up their pre-outs to the DCX. Then you hook up to 3 subs to 3 of the outputs and the amp for your 3 front speakers to the others.

Doesn't the front three speakers mean that I am using the A/B/C inputs on the DCX. Am I not using the LFE out on the receiver to feed an input on the DCX?

I thought the relationship for speaker management was 1 to 1?

 

[lsiberian]

Doesn't the front three speakers mean that I am using the A/B/C inputs on the DCX. Am I not using the LFE out on the receiver to feed an input on the DCX?

I thought the relationship for speaker management was 1 to 1?

No you wouldn't feed an LFE if you wanted to run the bass through your front speakers. all that means is that the LFE would be directed to the 3 fronts. Then the crossover would split out the LFE to your subs and direct the upper frequencies to your mains amp.

This of course requires setting your mains to Large and turning off the sub in your receiver. This is the point of having an external crossover. You let your crossover handle the sub mains integration.

Of course if you have 2 of these then you would still feed the LFE channel in most cases. I know it all sounds crazy, but it works out once you start hooking stuff up and setting things up. You could forgo crossing the center and simply do the LR and subs. I plan to do this since my main goal is to eq the subs and improve music listening. I may add some BFDs or a DCX latter for the other channels though.

 

[jinjuku]

No you wouldn't feed an LFE if you wanted to run the bass through your front speakers. all that means is that the LFE would be directed to the 3 fronts. Then the crossover would split out the LFE to your subs and direct the upper frequencies to your mains amp.

This of course requires setting your mains to Large and turning off the sub in your receiver. This is the point of having an external crossover. You let your crossover handle the sub mains integration.

Of course if you have 2 of these then you would still feed the LFE channel in most cases. I know it all sounds crazy, but it works out once you start hooking stuff up and setting things up. You could forgo crossing the center and simply do the LR and subs. I plan to do this since my main goal is to eq the subs and improve music listening. I may add some BFDs or a DCX latter for the other channels though.

Got it.

So kill the built in AVR sub management. Set the L/C/R to Large (20Hz-20Khz) and then feed the DCX L/C/R and setup a X-Over at 12dB roll off say at 100 or 80 Hz. SUM all inputs to all outputs and EQ input A/B/C for the L/C/R and crossover/EQ outputs 4 or 4/5(if stereo subs)?

There are a few different X-Over slopes, how do you determine:

L/W, Butterworth, and then the attenuation rate (-6/-18/-24 etc...) are these determined by the REW results explicitly?

 

[Djizasse]

kill the built in AVR sub management. Set the L/C/R to Large (20Hz-20Khz) and then feed the DCX L/C/R and setup a X-Over at 12dB roll off say at 100 or 80 Hz. SUM all inputs to all outputs and EQ input A/B/C for the L/C/R and crossover/EQ outputs 4 or 4/5(if stereo subs)?

I'm confused. Let me rephrase that:
Receiver:
no sub; LFE + Bass to Fronts; Fronts and Center set to Large; Rears set to small (?).

Receiver to DCX:
pre-outs L, C, R to DCX inputs A, B, C (respectively).

DCX:
Sum -> A+B+C
Outputs:
1 - Left Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = A
2 - Center Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = B
3 - Right Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = C
4 - Sub Channel Low passed (at the crossover point) - input = SUM

The exacts filters will depend on your room. I'll let others explain that

 

[nibhaz]

The exacts filters will depend on your room. I'll let others explain that

Wouldn't filter selection also be dependent on the frequency response and natural roll off characteristics of the speakers you are crossing over?

Wouldn’t this be even more important as the crossover point nears the extremes of a particular speakers specified frequency response? (Its tune)

I believe knowing how quickly a speaker rolls off would be crucial in this scenario.

 

[lsiberian]

Wouldn't filter selection also be dependent on the frequency response and natural roll off characteristics of the speakers you are crossing over?

Wouldn’t this be even more important as the crossover point nears the extremes of a particular speakers specified frequency response? (Its tune)

I believe knowing how quickly a speaker rolls off would be crucial in this scenario.

Potentially, but your high pass filter usually has more to do with the xmax of your driver. and your low pass filter usually is the crossover level of your mains.

To get a good idea for this I suggest multiplying your low response by 2 unless you listen at lower volumes. So if your mains have a bottom of 50hz then you would cross them at 100hz. Of course you could get away with 80hz if your a stickler for reference as long as you don't push your speakers to hard. The room determines your eq settings.

 

[nibhaz]

Potentially, but your high pass filter usually has more to do with the xmax of your driver. and your low pass filter usually is the crossover level of your mains.

To get a good idea for this I suggest multiplying your low response by 2 unless you listen at lower volumes. So if your mains have a bottom of 50hz then you would cross them at 100hz. Of course you could get away with 80hz if your a stickler for reference as long as you don't push your speakers to hard. The room determines your eq settings.

Yes, eq settings would be determined by the room's response, because it’s the room’s artifacts that you are attempting to correct.

I was specifically referring to the selection of the appropriate crossover type to use between one’s mains and sub, as this feature this has been touted as major benefit of the DCX.

Unless an individual built their speakers or they are true hobbyist, I doubt they will know the xmax of the drivers in their speakers. And thus, most users will simply have access to information regarding how their speakers work as a complete unit, not the individual drivers they contain. We must look at the speaker as complete system, not at its individual parts. (Now if we were talking about using the DCX as an active crossover, it would be a different story, but that’s not what the discussion was about.)

A prime example of taking into consideration the speaker’s properties when selecting the appropriate crossover is found in THX speaker systems. They use a LR-4 crossover on the sub, but a 2nd order Butterworth on the satellite. This is all based on the speaker’s parameters not the room’s.

The following is an excerpt from here.
“THX satellite speakers are sealed systems with an 80 Hz –3 dB low frequency cutoff (preferably with a Qtc of 0.71). The electronic high-pass filter applied to them is an 80 Hz, 2nd order (12dB/octave) Butterworth alignment. The speaker and the filter sum to a 4th order Linkwitz/Riley roll-off which matches the electronic filter applied to the subwoofer, and an excellent crossover is achieved.”

I fail to see how the room would have changed THX’s crossover alignment selection.

WmAx could you share what parameters you use when selecting the crossover alignment between your mains and your subs?

 

[jinjuku]

WmAx could you share what parameters you use when selecting the crossover alignment between your mains and your subs?

Yah, what is an example of an optimal x-over setup? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[WmAx]

WmAx could you share what parameters you use when selecting the crossover alignment between your mains and your subs?

After deciding the ideal bandwidth of the main speakers (in terms of SPL vs. distortion), which will dictate a rough lower frequency limit that is ideal, you would set the slopes and specific xover frequency for the highpass (mains) and lowpass(sub(s)) based on actual in-room measurements. The generic crossover used in receivers is simply not ideal. You can not adjust slope rates(to compensate for actual asymmetric behavior of the two sources), nor even usually fine adjustments for frequency for the low and high pass separately, though sometimes a 'rough' separate adjustment can be made, in 5 or 10 Hz increments.

-Chris

 

[mike c]

I'm confused. Let me rephrase that:
Receiver:
no sub; LFE + Bass to Fronts; Fronts and Center set to Large; Rears set to small (?).

Receiver to DCX:
pre-outs L, C, R to DCX inputs A, B, C (respectively).

DCX:
Sum -> A+B+C
Outputs:
1 - Left Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = A
2 - Center Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = B
3 - Right Channel High passed (at the crossover point) - input = C
4 - Sub Channel Low passed (at the crossover point) - input = SUM

The exacts filters will depend on your room. I'll let others explain that

i can't get my DCX to sum all ABC to a single output

hmm

the DCX2496 only has SUM: AC ; AB ; BC
but no ABC sum output

 

[Djizasse]

I've got to check my DCX.
If A+B+C Sum is not possible, just set C to small on the receiver. I know this is not ideal :\