DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[bandphan]

I can not believe you asked for this thread to be removed.

Im asking for another harp

 

[MidnightSensi]

I have no skin in this game but I have followed AV123 for quite some time and have purchased a few items from them. I was always concerned that MLS was seriously over extended. His big plans seemed like marketing hype designed to maintain old and attract new business. I understood this and stayed away even when very tempted (i.e. the RSLII and BMF) to buy into the “great deals” and hype. He was just such a likeable guy I wanted to buy from him even if my instincts told me to slow down.

In good times, Mark was notoriously generous with his time and money, spreading it around and making a legion of loyal AV123’ers very happy. Now that he is having troubles, many former fans have abandoned him and are even trying to make him out to be a criminal.

Although Mark Schifter has made mistakes, the PT Barnum personality that made him so beloved has now caused many to turn against him. I am certain that without the MFW-15 amp problems and his current health issues, Mark would still be rolling along.

I am truly sorry that some of you feel frustrated by the situation and your losses. Clearly AV123 made mistakes but if you take this as a valuable life lesson and then move on you will be a lot happier. I believe that Mark would REALLY like to do the right thing and his customers should give him every opportunity to do just that. Throwing gasoline on the fire only lessens your chances of being compensated.

Huh? I don't have a dog in this fight, but, dude, the sketchy thing about this isn't that he is probably in business trouble... it's that he is selling the stuff on the side. Which, doesn't make sense if a company is being ligitimately run. AV123 the company is probably paying for these speakers and then he is selling the speakers on the side cheap and pocketing the cash to move it out of the business....and, perhaps, even claiming they are in inventory for the write off. Also by selling **** on the side he is pulling profits away from the business. If he has any credit line, he could get absolutely screwed if they saw this thread. Screwed. That's probably why he tries to sweet talk these threads into going away.

 

[Adam]

Im asking for another harp

I'm surprised that you even have to ask anymore. Isn't it a given that when you're getting low, another one should be on the way?

 

[rmk]

Huh? I don't have a dog in this fight, but, dude, the sketchy thing about this isn't that he is probably in business trouble... it's that he is selling the stuff on the side. Which, doesn't make sense if a company is being ligitimately run. AV123 the company is probably paying for these speakers and then he is selling the speakers on the side cheap and pocketing the cash to move it out of the business....and, perhaps, even claiming they are in inventory for the write off. Also by selling **** on the side he is pulling profits away from the business. If he has any credit line, he could get absolutely screwed if they saw this thread. Screwed. That's probably why he tries to sweet talk these threads into going away.

Sensi,

That is one large pile of speculation ...

Personally, I would hate to be tried (and convicted) on the Internet.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Sensi,

That is one large pile of speculation ...

Personally, I would hate to be tried (and convicted) on the Internet.

Haha. Well, I admit I'm only here because its the most interesting thread on the forum right now, but I do have a bit of experience in these types of things. And in my experience people only sell on the side when they are f**ing someone. And my speculation is probably at least warm if not dead on.... especially the banks, credit line and "****, I don't want my bank that I'm screwing over to see this thread"....the part about selling stuff on the side rather than through the company isn't speculation.

At least its closer than your love letter.

 

[TjMV3]

I am truly sorry that some of you feel frustrated by the situation and your losses. Clearly AV123 made mistakes but if you take this as a valuable life lesson and then move on you will be a lot happier.

Oh really? Someone rips you off and the best thing to do is to move on?

Why should MLS be immune to legal action and criminal charges? Why shouldn't these people press charges against MLS and hold him accountable?

They should have all united a long time ago and contacted the FBI, started an investigation and pressed charges.

I believe that Mark would REALLY like to do the right thing and his customers should give him every opportunity to do just that. Throwing gasoline on the fire only lessens your chances of being compensated.

Give Mark every opportunity?

What, six months....eight months ......more than a year isn't enough time for Mark to do the right thing? Are you kidding me?

Hey, as Mark boastingly stated. His investors and everyone at AV123 are standing shoulder to shoulder with him; in full support. Good!!! They can start by taking care of/compensating the people who have been screwed by this guy!!!!

Whether someone complains or as you stated, throws gasoline on the fire is irrelevent. It has no bearing on one's chances of being compensated. It's simple, he either compensates these people or they press criminal charges.

MLS is not in the driver's seat, here. He's in no position to deny anyone their due compensation because they are upset and talking about it.

I can't believe this nonsense. This guy screwed so many....took their money and has delivered nothing in return; and you're feeling sorry for him. You're extending sympathy for the criminal and showing a complete lack of resprect and empathy for the victims.

To make matters worse, you're trying to put all power and control in MLS's hands. It is not in his hands. The victims have the power. The power of the law!!! Maybe MLS needs a legal reminder of who truely has the power, here.

 

[twylight]

someone just pull a d&b report on them and see how they are doing financially - geesh speculation is for fail. The drama kept me from making a purchase.

 

[DaveHo]

Nope.

This thread being removed wasn't a pre-req for me getting this issue resolved.

I was contacted by MLS and we had a few back and forths about the situation and it is on its way to being resolved.

As of yet it hasn't been resolved, but I have been contacted, issued a full apology, and given assurances that it will be.

I was politely asked to have the thread removed so I asked for it to be removed. I cannot do it myself so the ball is in the moderators court.

Gee, where have we all heard that one before. Sounds like more MLS blowing sunshine up your ***. Him asking to have the thread removed, . Good luck.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Freudian Projection?

One large pile of speculation, actually....

 

[rmk]

Oh really? Someone rips you off and the best thing to do is to move on?

Why should MLS be immune to legal action and criminal charges? Why shouldn't these people press charges against MLS and hold him accountable?

I didn't say he should not be held accountable IF he has committed a crime.

Whether someone complains or as you stated, throws gasoline on the fire is irrelevent. It has no bearing on one's chances of being compensated. It's simple, he either compensates these people or they press criminal charges.

If he stays in business, these people (i.e. not you) have a much better chance of getting their money back.

I can't believe this nonsense. This guy screwed so many....took their money and has delivered nothing in return; and you're feeling sorry for him. You're extending sympathy for the criminal and showing a complete lack of resprect and empathy for the victims.

To make matters worse, you're trying to put all power and control in MLS's hands. It is not in his hands. The victims have the power. The power of the law!!! Maybe MLS needs a legal reminder of who truely has the power, here.

You say he is a criminal ... then characterize me as lacking respect for the "victims" and you aren't even directly involved in this ... Hummm ... somebody call a doctor

I think we should both butt out!

 

[dylancash]

I didn't say he should not be held accountable IF he has committed a crime.

Take away all of the biases and look the facts. I told you I had speakers sitting in my basement ready to ship. You send me money immediately. 6 months later after communication has been all but cut off are you trying to say that isn't criminal? Forget intent or bias, just look at the facts. He is LYING about having equipment and taking money for it. I don't care if he eventually does send the equipment in a year, but lying about actually having something in order to take money from somebody else is criminal behavior, end of story.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I didn't say he should not be held accountable IF he has committed a crime.

Selling speakers that are built by your company on the side is sketchy and crooked. Where it could be considered criminal is speculation, but, generally not delivering a product after its paid for is... the taxes for selling stuff on the side and all that just depends on how he went about it. But, like I said earlier, there isn't a legit reason where he would be better off selling it on the side. There isn't, that's why companies exist in the first place.

The people who bought stuff on the side should have used common sense (like you said you did), but betweem this guy sweet talking and all the people on these forums that fall in love with inexpensive stuff (with fancy numbers from self-porclaimed forum experts with test equipment they probably have no idea how to operate or interpret) it doesn't help.

If there was any good that could be gotten out of this thread its this:

Just because people on the Internet say that you should buy something, and that its fantastic, doesn't mean it is. People had problems with their Emotiva stuff, people are for sure having problems with this AV123 stuff, every time the sub kicks on it kills a 20A circuit, and people are not having problems with a lot of the stuff you hear on here that has "too much harmonic distortion" or "2dB less output at 20Hz" . You want to take the risk, so be it, and I'm sure there are some buys out there, lots of learn from Internet forums, but when it comes to your own money, be smart and listen to yourself.

Maybe there is something to be said about recommending good product from companies that make reliable stuff and have been in business for a while. Maybe.

 

[ChunkyDark]

I was considering an xsub (was b stock) right when they shut down the forums. When they didn't come back up after the couple of weeks mentioned my warning bells went off and bought a Dayton 120. Is it as good, maybe maybe not, but i've been able to listen to it the last month or so verses checking if product has shipped.
To me closing down their forums for 2+ months is what is turning people against them.
My dogs, skins, and whatever are also out of this game/match

 

[rmk]

Just because people on the Internet say that you should buy something, and that its fantastic, doesn't mean it is.

Absolutely and the same applies to other comments about people and events.

Maybe there is something to be said about recommending good product from companies that make reliable stuff and have been in business for a while. Maybe.

Yes and you have to consider your sources. Hey, I even made the huge mistake of taking your advice.

 

[dylancash]

To me closing down their forums for 2+ months is what is turning people against them.

You most likely are right. Even though it pissed off and punished a lot of their most loyal, vocal customers who had done nothing wrong, it was also one of the single dumbest moves a company has ever made in the history of companies. Hmm, we got a lot of problems on our forum because our owner has defrauded people and charities so instead of dealing with it internally on our forum, lets close it down so it spreads far and wide to every audio forum in existence. I will never understand that train of thought.

In retrospect, that will probably be the death knell for the company. By closing that forum they not only lose their most loyal and trusted supporters, but they now unleash the wrath of angry victims who no longer have a place to vent.

 

[TjMV3]

I don't know, call me crazy, but the last time I checked...... Pitching to or Soliciting people to pay for a product upfront, receiving payment and then never delivering that product to the people who submitted payment, for product; is and has always been a criminal act.

If something has changed over the last several years, please let me know.

Because if in fact this type of behavior is no longer considered criminal behavior, I have a lot of imaginary products to sell. I could be rich, I tell ya'!!!!

 

[bandphan]

Just my 2 cents.... Ivè recommended some of their products based on listen experience and stoped when these issues have risen. Ivè also bought and paid for in full merchandise that wasnt delivered for over a year, knowing that up front. If a product was sold as in stock and it wasnt, and wasnt a "custom" order, people should have rights to refund without issue. Eithics and legality are two differnt issues. It seems that ethics are the issue with MLS.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Just my 2 cents.... Ivè recommended some of their products based on listen experience and stoped when these issues have risen. Ivè also bought and paid for in full merchandise that wasnt delivered for over a year, knowing that up front. If a product was sold as in stock and it wasnt, and wasnt a "custom" order, people should have rights to refund without issue. Eithics and legality are two differnt issues. It seems that ethics are the issue with MLS.

Thats the biggest issue I see in all this is that MLS nor AV123 are stepping up to offer refunds to these people that want them. I understand people and companies make mistakes but when a seller does not deliver product and is holding the customers money over an extended period of time the buyer has a right to be able to get his money back with no questions, period! What I don't understand is customer service is one of the biggest selling points in dealing with internet companies. AV123 is losing major competitive advantage at which was once thought as providing excellent customer service. Look at companies like SVS, Axiom, Aperion, Emotiva all in which invest heavily and continue to provide industry leading customer service. There is no margain for error in the ID world, which is why I don't understand why nothing is getting resolved quickly.

 

[gmichael]

Wow! All I can say is, wow!

 

[JimmyTango]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt. Nope. Wrongo. Paypal can and does pull money directly from one's primary funding source to settle claims.

Sorry, i wasn't more clear. They can if you do not tell your source to not allow it. You can tell your bank, credit card, etc not to allow paypal to charge you. paypal can not get around this. Therefor, someone out to steal from others, can easily do it with the buyer left without money or product.