DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[craigsub]

I have lost faith in av123 also. I used to have respect for MLS, but unfortunately, along with people like the OP and Madpoet, I know people who are owed significantly more money and have been strung along for months perhaps years. I wish I didn't know what I do but I have seen what's under the emperor's clothes and it's not pretty.

I used to recommend them all the time, but no more.. I just can't.

There was a post on tweakcity by Uncle Paul who suggested getting all those involved together, but he has since been banned from that forum.

Here is what I posted today in regards to his being banned:

Ok guys, since several seem to want to talk about Uncle Paul's being banned, I will explain why.

1. Uncle Paul entered into a business deal with MLS. Note, this was not a product purchase. It was a business deal.

2. The business deal went sour. I feel for Paul in this regard.

3. Uncle Paul posted details about said business deal here. I asked him not to do so. Then I asked him again. After the 5th time asking him, I requested he call me so we could discuss it.

4. During the phone call, I tried to explain that his posting his business transaction on my forum was leaving me open to legal issues with AV123/MLS. Eventually, Uncle Paul hung up on me.

5. He posted the information again. At that point, it became clear that he was not going to respect my request to keep his business dealings with MLS off this forum. He was finally banned.

 

[lsiberian]

Here is what I posted today in regards to his being banned:

This thread is spiraling out of control.

 

[craigsub]

This thread is spiraling out of control.

While I agree that is is spiraling out of control, I did not ask for what has happened on my forum to be brought here.

As what happened on my forum WAS brought here, and done so in a pretty dishonest way, it was prudent to post the truth in regards to this banning.

If the mods wish to remove mhawker's post that got me here in the first place, I will be happy to see mine also removed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I fund any purchase through Pay Pal, I always use my Amex card. This way, when I file a Pay Pal dispute, I file one with Amex too. It's amazing how fast they move when Amex puts some pressure on them...

Yeah, I use PayPal a lot, but I ALWAYS fund via my Citicard Mastercard.

They don't mess around either. Several minutes after filing a dispute, I immediately see a CREDIT on my account online.

 

[padd54]

Would everyone with av123 "issues" be willing to contact me via email?

padd54@webformixair.com

 

[Soundman]

Wow

Wow Guys! Why all the hate?! I find all of this hard to belive. I'm just astounded by all I am hearing. I have had dealings with AV123 for some time now and must say they have been the best customer service experiences I have ever had. I must admit that I haven't ordered anything recently though. Anyway, before claiming that MLS has stolen your money, I suggest you research this a little more. I find it very hard to believe. It's one thing for something to go amiss within a company (no company is perfect and mistakes to occur), but to attack someone's character is another...well, I'm not sure what to think except that my experience has always been exceptional. My orders were fullfilled quickly, there was always a knowledgeable person on hand to answer my questions, and of course, there is no denying that they really do make some fantastic products.

 

[mannoiaj]

Wow Guys! Why all the hate?! I find all of this hard to belive. I'm just astounded by all I am hearing. I have had dealings with AV123 for some time now and must say they have been the best customer service experiences I have ever had. I must admit that I haven't ordered anything recently though. Anyway, before claiming that MLS has stolen your money, I suggest you research this a little more. I find it very hard to believe. It's one thing for something to go amiss within a company (no company is perfect and mistakes to occur), but to attack someone's character is another...well, I'm not sure what to think except that my experience has always been exceptional. My orders were fullfilled quickly, there was always a knowledgeable person on hand to answer my questions, and of course, there is no denying that they really do make some fantastic products.

I have had alot of smooth transactions with AV123.com as well. Probably most people that buy from them do. But there are obviously some exceptions and some pretty pissed off customers right now. They did and still do alot of things right (AV123) and thats why they have such a loyal following.

 

[Audioholics]

From all appearances they are now in a position where they are (or have been) taking people's money and not delivering products. That's why there is a lot of "hate" and that is why people who have had positive experiences in the past don't offer much to the current discussion. Hint, hint.

The "Mark is sick" argument simply doesn't hold water. AV123 has never been a one-person company and it takes approximately 60 seconds to do a successful chargeback.

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

We don't know. But the bottom line is it doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[padd54]

Wow Guys! Why all the hate?! I find all of this hard to belive. I'm just astounded by all I am hearing. I have had dealings with AV123 for some time now and must say they have been the best customer service experiences I have ever had. I must admit that I haven't ordered anything recently though. Anyway, before claiming that MLS has stolen your money, I suggest you research this a little more. I find it very hard to believe. It's one thing for something to go amiss within a company (no company is perfect and mistakes to occur), but to attack someone's character is another...well, I'm not sure what to think except that my experience has always been exceptional. My orders were fullfilled quickly, there was always a knowledgeable person on hand to answer my questions, and of course, there is no denying that they really do make some fantastic products.

I think it is you who needs to do a little research.

 

[neckthrough]

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

Yes, I ordered an ELT525M + TCA Gizmo + Ultralink cable combo about 3 weeks back. The transaction was smooth, and everything arrived on time.

The only problem was that there were some cosmetic blemishes on the speakers and the gizmo. Since I paid full A-stock price, I really wanted cosmetically perfect items. Given the recent discussions about the state of the company, I was really debating on whether it was worth the risk trying to get replacements, esp. since the items were all functionally perfect.

In the end I decided to send the items back, because all of my own past and present experiences with AV123 have been flawless. I requested them for return UPS labels, which were sent to me promptly. The items are now on their way back to AV123. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything works out okay.

 

[ivseenbetter]

I had a good experience with them just 6 months ago. However, I don't think I would use them again based on what I have seen. There is trouble afoot.

Meanwhile, I guess my rockets will be collector's items when they go out of business! Always look at the silver lining.

Oh, and I'm glad I got in on the MFW deals before things started to suck over there. Just wanted to throw that in.

 

[Soundman]

From all appearances they are now in a position where they are (or have been) taking people's money and not delivering products. That's why there is a lot of "hate" and that is why people who have had positive experiences in the past don't offer much to the current discussion. Hint, hint.

The "Mark is sick" argument simply doesn't hold water. AV123 has never been a one-person company and it takes approximately 60 seconds to do a successful chargeback.

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

We don't know. But the bottom line is it doesn't pass the smell test.

Ok. Point taken. I just know that they have always been such great people to deal with in the past and this is truely a sad story if there is truth to this. .....What about the new factory going into production in China? That doesn't sound like a company going under does it.

 

[Matt34]

From all appearances they are now in a position where they are (or have been) taking people's money and not delivering products. That's why there is a lot of "hate" and that is why people who have had positive experiences in the past don't offer much to the current discussion. Hint, hint.

The "Mark is sick" argument simply doesn't hold water. AV123 has never been a one-person company and it takes approximately 60 seconds to do a successful chargeback.

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

Coming from a company that prided themselves on transparency and direct communication between the customers and CEO to completely pulling the curtain on they way they are handling these issues, what can one expect?

We don't know. But the bottom line is it doesn't pass the smell test.

From everything I've been reading, "in-stock" products are being delievered and people are able to reach customer service by phone and CS issues are actually being taken care of in a realtively timely manner......but not much else in the way of updates on other outstanding issues.

I think it is you who needs to do a little research.

Padd54 is right Soundman; the problems lie with the complete lack of communication from MLS himself and some major, long-standing issues involving thousands of dollars in undelivered products in which folks have long since paid for i.e. LS6/LS9, ULW replacement amps, etc.

There is also some concern that items where being sold in a manner that the customers believed they were purchasing from AV123 but come to find out they were dealing with MLS directly under another one of his companies and AV123 CS reps claim they can not resolve these outstanding issues and they must contact MLS directly which has been fruitless.

 

[Soundman]

I think it is you who needs to do a little research.

I don't have anything to research since I don't have a problem. Seriously though, that is a tough situation. I just think it's important to be sure of someone's intent before making such claims.

 

[TjMV3]

Intersting thing about the pictures of that new AV123 factory in China. The pictures seem to lack ....you know....speakers.

Anyone see any speaker parts in those pictures? If so, please direct me to that picture. Becasue the pictures I saw showed no drivers, no cabs, no crossovers ......no nothing. I couldn't even make out what those people were doing on that production like.

I remember the pictures Wes Phillips took of his trip to the IAG Wharfedale factory in China and in every picture you could see speaker cabs, drivers......all speaker related stuff and even some Quad electronics stuff.

Not so in the AV123 pictures.

 

[craigsub]

Intersting thing about the pictures of that new AV123 factory in China. The pictures seem to lack ....you know....speakers.

Anyone see any speaker parts in those pictures? If so, please direct me to that picture. Becasue the pictures I saw showed no drivers, no cabs, no crossovers ......no nothing. I couldn't even make out what those people were doing on that production like.

I remember the pictures Wes Phillips took of his trip to the IAG Wharfedale factory in China and in every picture you could see speaker cabs, drivers......all speaker related stuff and even some Quad electronics stuff.

Not so in the AV123 pictures.

I think that is the factory for the new amps for MFW-15.

 

[Soundman]

Padd54 is right Soundman; the problems lie with the complete lack of communication from MLS himself and some major, long-standing issues involving thousands of dollars in undelivered products in which folks have long since paid for i.e. LS6/LS9, ULW replacement amps, etc.

There is also some concern that items where being sold in a manner that the customers believed they were purchasing from AV123 but come to find out they were dealing with MLS directly under another one of his companies and AV123 CS reps claim they can not resolve these outstanding issues and they must contact MLS directly which has been fruitless.

OK, well if that is the case then there are definitely some issues. But before we criminalize the man, is it possible there is more to this story? When he took the payments, did he really intend to steal?

 

[madpoet]

I don't care if he intended to steal my money. By not refunding me for over 6 months and lying to me outright on several occasions (and causing me to get in a SERIOUS fix because of his lies) he has now stolen it. That simple. 6 months ago I would have been a giant AV123 cheerleader. Loved them. Still love their gear. But there have been some shady things done. Whether Mark was the one doing them all on his own I don't know, but the attitude AV123 is taking is that all of these are Mark's problems and therefore they won't touch them. I can understand (from a business standpoint) why they want to make that stand, but I don't know that it passes the test. Mark was selling AV123 products, he was selling them through the AV123 forum, and his email had AV123 in it. He promised all the same warranty terms, returns, etc; as a standard AV123 transaction. Many people (myself included) were ignorant about the separation of AV123 and the Graham Company. I thought that was just the address they used for Paypal. How wrong I was...

 

[Matt34]

OK, well if that is the case then there are definitely some issues. But before we criminalize the man, is it possible there is more to this story? When he took the payments, did he really intend to steal?

Whether or not it was his intention it really doesn't matter, IMO. Whatever is really going on over there, it's just bad business from the customers point of veiw and that is really all the matters, espeically for an ID company based on word of mouth.

 

[craigsub]

From all appearances they are now in a position where they are (or have been) taking people's money and not delivering products. That's why there is a lot of "hate" and that is why people who have had positive experiences in the past don't offer much to the current discussion. Hint, hint.

The "Mark is sick" argument simply doesn't hold water. AV123 has never been a one-person company and it takes approximately 60 seconds to do a successful chargeback.

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

We don't know. But the bottom line is it doesn't pass the smell test.

Clint - MLS has put himself into a pretty difficult position (that was an understatement).

He has said in various posts that he will make good on every promise made - from product deliveries to refunds.

If he does, even though people will have had to suffer through a lot of unneeded delays, at least each was eventually the recipient of all he or she was owed.

The fear is he cannot (or will not) do so ... and all anyone who is owed product or money can do (for now) is wait.

The frustration people feel is pretty understandable.