Subwoofer location under audio component rack...

HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
Hi all,

I'm planning out my HT layout and was planning on getting two racks for audio and video components. There'll be a space between them with a bridge on top to support the center channel speaker. Under the CC, I was planning to place my JLA F113 there but this puppy hits pretty hard. So my question is: Is it a bad idea to place the sub there (I have no turntable)?

TIA. :)

-Hedwig
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
If I am understanding the set up correctly you will be effectively be putting it in a box which will not be ideal.
 
HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'll be using 2 x Solid Tech Rack of Silence 20" apart. I'll get another X-brace to bridge between them. So the sub will be underneath that bridge but since it's an open rack, it won't be enclosed.



If I am understanding the set up correctly you will be effectively be putting it in a box which will not be ideal.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Those racks look awesome. I have heard that mid center is one of the worst places to put a sub but try it and see how it works. I don't think the output will really hurt anything if that is your main worry.
 
HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
Thx! :)

I know the preferential location is to almost corner load the sub. But I've heard people claim their still may be image localization even with extremely low frequencies. However, my concern is the vibration that having a sub so close to the components may cause long term damage and/or affect disc playback.

And yeah, those racks are very nice. I saw them at a dealer on some 100K+ McIntosh system...talk about a centerpiece. :eek:

-H


Those racks look awesome. I have heard that mid center is one of the worst places to put a sub but try it and see how it works. I don't think the output will really hurt anything if that is your main worry.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Sub placement should always be done with a crawl test and rarely should it be placed in a rack. If you are going to place it there make sure to treat cabinet.

I think it would be better to get an isopad and set the center directly on top of the sub instead. Then give it some spacing.

But you try a listening test first. And make sure to listen outside not just inside. Cabinet placements can make external room bass really bad in my experience.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thx! :)

I know the preferential location is to almost corner load the sub. But I've heard people claim their still may be image localization even with extremely low frequencies. However, my concern is the vibration that having a sub so close to the components may cause long term damage and/or affect disc playback.

And yeah, those racks are very nice. I saw them at a dealer on some 100K+ McIntosh system...talk about a centerpiece. :eek:

-H
Corner loading can make some subs very boomy, but usually yields the highest SPL.
 
HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
There are no cabinets, sides, fronts, nor backs to the rack. It's just two open design audio stands flanking the sub. The "shelves" are x-braces on a suspension. The top bridge will be another suspended x-brace where the center channel would site. Given this setup, I thought the sub would naturally nestle nicely in that open area.

-H

Sub placement should always be done with a crawl test and rarely should it be placed in a rack. If you are going to place it there make sure to treat cabinet.

I think it would be better to get an isopad and set the center directly on top of the sub instead. Then give it some spacing.

But you try a listening test first. And make sure to listen outside not just inside. Cabinet placements can make external room bass really bad in my experience.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think the real issue with this setup is that it is "inside" the rack area, it is that it is centered with respect to the other speakers. Generally speaking, as mentioned previously, this is likely to not be the best spot for the sub sonically, though that entirely depends on your room. My sub is boomy in the corner, but moving it just 1ft from the side made a huge improvement.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
There are no cabinets, sides, fronts, nor backs to the rack. It's just two open design audio stands flanking the sub. The "shelves" are x-braces on a suspension. The top bridge will be another suspended x-brace where the center channel would site. Given this setup, I thought the sub would naturally nestle nicely in that open area.

-H
You can adjust db gain to compensate for placement issues in some cases. Like I said give it a go and see if it works. If it does! Congrats you have a nice setup.:D
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
If you are going to use a pre-determined position, I highly recommend some sort of EQ. I guess I'd recommend it in any case. If ease of use is a priority, I'd recommend getting your hands on the best version of Audyssey you can find. The SVS to come out could do the trick, but you'll need a laptop. That looks like Classe gear if I'm guessing, and I have no idea what kind of RC that stuff has.

I wouldn't worry about having it close to components. It'll be fine. Things that shake seem to be dependent on the frequencies anyways. I also use a JL, and recently it was a window at the opposite end of the home. I've even had my projector shake on a few occasions.

What model is that center speaker?

For corner loading, the benefit of SQ comes from higher SPL efficiency, since that means lower distortion. But, as mentioned, the modes that are excited are often localizable (in my case, always so). People seem to succeed more often with corner placement once they have significantly treated their room.
 
HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
I haven't acquired all the pieces yet but will be pulling the trigger soon. I only have the JL Audio F113 and Pionner PRO-151FD so far. Will be getting the 802D/HTM1D combo and considering CCM817/818/805S as surrounds. And it'll be the Classe SSP-800/CA-5200 to drive the stuff. Source is a bit average with Panasonic DMP-BD55, Motorola DCT-3416, and Sony CDP-707ESD. I have an APC H15 and J15 for conditioning.

There's a lot of talk over @ AVS about Audyssey. Given that the SSP-800 doesn't come with it, you can guess how owners feel about the Audi's merits. ;) It does have some manual tweaking tho...not to mention that the JL has some peak reduction calibration.

Room is small (13' x 15' x 9' but it opens to the kitchen and nook). Oh, those are just objects downloaded from Sketchup's existing objects so the centers I dug up were the B&W CCT8X and the conditioner is Furman..just as place holders.

Here's a diff mockup.






-H


If you are going to use a pre-determined position, I highly recommend some sort of EQ. I guess I'd recommend it in any case. If ease of use is a priority, I'd recommend getting your hands on the best version of Audyssey you can find. The SVS to come out could do the trick, but you'll need a laptop. That looks like Classe gear if I'm guessing, and I have no idea what kind of RC that stuff has.

I wouldn't worry about having it close to components. It'll be fine. Things that shake seem to be dependent on the frequencies anyways. I also use a JL, and recently it was a window at the opposite end of the home. I've even had my projector shake on a few occasions.

What model is that center speaker?

For corner loading, the benefit of SQ comes from higher SPL efficiency, since that means lower distortion. But, as mentioned, the modes that are excited are often localizable (in my case, always so). People seem to succeed more often with corner placement once they have significantly treated their room.
 

Attachments

Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
It should not cause any special trouble there. You should place the subwoofer wherever it sounds the best, within the constraints of what is reasonably possible to do in your room. This could turn out to be the best place, or not. Unfortunately, the only way to know is to try the various possibilities in your particular room.

It shouldn't hurt your other equipment, if that is what you are asking. And the subwoofer, if it is doing its job, is going to be able to vibrate everything in the room anyway, no matter where it is placed.

When your equipment dies, think of it as an excuse and opportunity to upgrade ;).
 
Midcow2

Midcow2

Banned
Use SPL meter

How do you like the PRO-151FD ? I am getting one soon ; very nice. In your rendition you left the speakers on, I assume you will take them off.

I am getting a Salamander Hampton 339
Hampton 339 Audio/TV Stand Cabinet to put it on. I will have the 7002s on each end and I relocated my SVS sub to the back of the room. All components will be RF controlled behind closed doors and the CLR3000 will be behind the center speaker grill.



Concerning Audyssey, I would get a SPL meter and set the equalization with it instead. Radio Shack makes a good one for $50. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667


Good Luck!

MidCow2
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I think what I and others are saying is that choosing a location based on aesthetics is not the way to start if quality sound is what you are after. You can buy excellent gear but if you don't spend the time to properly set it up, you won't get the most out of it. In which case it is sort of money wasted IMHO.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
...not to mention that the JL has some peak reduction calibration.
Well, I wouldn't call it "some". It is a single* peak reduction at a single* listening position. That same singular offensive peak could have been perfectly fine for the person sitting next to you as well.

Concerning Audyssey, I would get a SPL meter and set the equalization with it instead. Radio Shack makes a good one for $50. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667
If this equalization is with a product outside of Audyssey, sure. However, the Audyssey system is more accurate than the RS SPL meter on its own.
 
HedgeHog

HedgeHog

Audioholic Intern
Hi MC2,

I'll be leaving the side speakers on. The idea is that I should be able to program my Harmony 1000 to play TV through the built in speakers while a DVD activity will turn on the pre/pro, amps, sub, mute tv speakers, and dim the lights. No point doing 5.1 for TV news.

I really like the Pio. Should be better once calibrated or get ControlCal and pump in some settings. Honestly, I don't like plasma/lcd technology so much since SD looks like poop on it. It's like watching Youtube on your PC. But given really good hi-def signal like National Geographic HD or Blu-Ray, the set comes to life.

It costs too much still (if you're in the US - I'm not - a dealer on AVS apparently gives excellent pricing - shipped).

Good luck with yours.

BTW, I considered Bello, BDI, Salamander, etc but I am concerned about closed cabinets and heat. I do tech and a lot of my clients are interior designers. They build gorgeous millwork a/v cabinets but everytime I open a door, it's like an oven.

Cheers.

-H


How do you like the PRO-151FD ? I am getting one soon ; very nice. In your rendition you left the speakers on, I assume you will take them off.

I am getting a Salamander Hampton 339
Hampton 339 Audio/TV Stand Cabinet to put it on. I will have the 7002s on each end and I relocated my SVS sub to the back of the room. All components will be RF controlled behind closed doors and the CLR3000 will be behind the center speaker grill.



Good Luck!

MidCow2
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I have a Salamander Synergy rack and it doesn't get hot at all - because I removed the back panels :) With the doors closed you can't tell the difference. They also sell extended back panels with fans if you have really hot gear. My side panels are perf steel which also allows pretty good heat evacuation.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
How do you like the PRO-151FD ? I am getting one soon ; very nice. In your rendition you left the speakers on, I assume you will take them off.

I am getting a Salamander Hampton 339
Hampton 339 Audio/TV Stand Cabinet to put it on. I will have the 7002s on each end and I relocated my SVS sub to the back of the room. All components will be RF controlled behind closed doors and the CLR3000 will be behind the center speaker grill.



Concerning Audyssey, I would get a SPL meter and set the equalization with it instead. Radio Shack makes a good one for $50. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667


Good Luck!

MidCow2
That's a nice looking cabinet.
 
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