I need help with power.

[highfihoney]

Hi guy's,i know i do not post here much anymore,not because ive lost my love of audio but just too many damm fish to fry with my wife's illness & my trime spent on the medical marijuana movement in my state,i still regard this forum as having one hell of a knowledgable member base & that is why i am here right now,what i need help researching is this.

My plan is for when i retire within the next 18 months i have no monthly bills,in order to reach that goal i'll need to be completely off the power grid,in my area of Michigan solar power is the only option,i cant use wind energy where im located,ive began researching solar power on the internet & so far alot of the information ive gathered is conflicting in nature.

Im looking for information pertaining to any federal government grants or rebate programs as well as any state of Michigan grant/rebate/incentive programs & how i might become elegible for any or all of them.

Anything at all any of you guys can tell me about solar energy or solar systems will be extremely helpfull,eve any links that you think i should read on th esubject would be extremely helpfull,this is not going to be a cheap project for me seeing that i plan to have 100% of our power needs fed directly from the solar system & not have to pay Detroit Edison one red cent,im prepared to make a very large investment in this & seeing that the investment is going to be so large in final costs i need to be educated in solar before i spend any money.

Help educate me if you can,this is too much money to spend on faith alone.

BTW,some of you may be thinking im trying to power some massive grow room to grow weed out of,i assure you this is not the case,ive allready got enough power for that

 

[Adam]

Hey. I'm guessing that you've thought about this, but I'll mention it anyway - be sure to consider how long it will take to recoup your initial investment. That's one of the big economic downsides to solar right now, in that (at least for me) it takes well over a decade before the reduction in power bills meets the initial cost. If you don't want to EVER pay money to a power company, then you are likely looking at a serious investment in battery storage to account for days without sun.

One thing to check into is if your power company allows customers to sell them power (I forget the term for it). During peak solar production, you could send energy to the main power grid, and then you could draw from the grid at night. Your monthly bill (or payment) would be based on the difference between what you supply to them and what you draw from them. That can eliminate the cost of buying and maintaining battery packs.

Places that sell solar systems should be up on the latest tax incentives/grants/rebates. After all, it's part of their marketing plan to get people to put up the money. I'd say call around to some of them.

Also, use Google. Michigan probably has a government website with at least one page dedicated to solar power (here's one that I found, along with another non-government site here).

Please let us know how this all goes for you. Thanks!

 

[jamie2112]

http://www.sunwize.com/aboutsw/sunwize-solar-energy-index.php
http://www.solarpowerrocks.com/michigan/
http://www.eventhorizonsolar.com/
I hope this helps ......

 

[lsiberian]

Hi guy's,i know i do not post here much anymore,not because ive lost my love of audio but just too many damm fish to fry with my wife's illness & my trime spent on the medical marijuana movement in my state,i still regard this forum as having one hell of a knowledgable member base & that is why i am here right now,what i need help researching is this.

My plan is for when i retire within the next 18 months i have no monthly bills,in order to reach that goal i'll need to be completely off the power grid,in my area of Michigan solar power is the only option,i cant use wind energy where im located,ive began researching solar power on the internet & so far alot of the information ive gathered is conflicting in nature.

Im looking for information pertaining to any federal government grants or rebate programs as well as any state of Michigan grant/rebate/incentive programs & how i might become elegible for any or all of them.

Anything at all any of you guys can tell me about solar energy or solar systems will be extremely helpfull,eve any links that you think i should read on th esubject would be extremely helpfull,this is not going to be a cheap project for me seeing that i plan to have 100% of our power needs fed directly from the solar system & not have to pay Detroit Edison one red cent,im prepared to make a very large investment in this & seeing that the investment is going to be so large in final costs i need to be educated in solar before i spend any money.

Help educate me if you can,this is too much money to spend on faith alone.

BTW,some of you may be thinking im trying to power some massive grow room to grow weed out of,i assure you this is not the case,ive allready got enough power for that

To be honest I don't see at as cost effective in your area. You will likely no see the savings in your lifetime. If you could DIY maybe, but other than that option. I don't see Solar as feasible or useful in Michigan. In the winter you would be unable to rely on the solar panels and you would have to clean them from snow and ice.

I think you would be much better served with Wind Power, but that's my $0.02.

Now let me at least get you started with a cost estimate.

For 2,000 KwH a month in electricity you would need to spend around 180,000 dollars on the setup and install. It would take you almost 30 years to break even. even after incentives

Why not just take the 180,000 dollars and put it in a nice money market bank account. That would give you enough to pay the bill each month.

You would likely want to remain on the grid because when you don't use the energy you would probably get paid for it. If you off grid you will not have power when you aren't getting enough solar energy.

FindSolar.com is an excellent source.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi guy's,i know i do not post here much anymore,not because ive lost my love of audio but just too many damm fish to fry with my wife's illness & my trime spent on the medical marijuana movement in my state,i still regard this forum as having one hell of a knowledgable member base & that is why i am here right now,what i need help researching is this.

My plan is for when i retire within the next 18 months i have no monthly bills,in order to reach that goal i'll need to be completely off the power grid,in my area of Michigan solar power is the only option,i cant use wind energy where im located,ive began researching solar power on the internet & so far alot of the information ive gathered is conflicting in nature.

Im looking for information pertaining to any federal government grants or rebate programs as well as any state of Michigan grant/rebate/incentive programs & how i might become elegible for any or all of them.

Anything at all any of you guys can tell me about solar energy or solar systems will be extremely helpfull,eve any links that you think i should read on th esubject would be extremely helpfull,this is not going to be a cheap project for me seeing that i plan to have 100% of our power needs fed directly from the solar system & not have to pay Detroit Edison one red cent,im prepared to make a very large investment in this & seeing that the investment is going to be so large in final costs i need to be educated in solar before i spend any money.

Help educate me if you can,this is too much money to spend on faith alone.

BTW,some of you may be thinking im trying to power some massive grow room to grow weed out of,i assure you this is not the case,ive allready got enough power for that

The only way you will do this is to use the solar power to convert water to hydrogen and oxygen, and power your house with hydrogen fuel cells. There is a guy in New Jersey who has done it. It was DIY, and he is a skilled machinest. Hydrogen is very explosive, so you have to know what you are doing.

This is where the research is now.

http://thegreentechnocrat.com/?p=288

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/energy_digital/4276071.html

I doubt you would see your investment back.

 

[Sheep]

I have a better idea.. all you need is a pedal bike and a generator.. In one month you'd be ripped.

SheepStar

 

[yettitheman]

I heard the Planet Green Channel has a show called "Living with Ed"

 

[Rickster71]

Lots of great info so far. If I may add:

Highfihoney, the first thing that you need is "location."
Somewhere that doesn't have two weather extremes, as you have in Michigan. Hot summers and frigid winters aren't the best starting points. The point being, less of a weather extreme, means less power demand.

The next thing to consider: Sunlight Levels - If you’re lucky to live somewhere sunny like Santa Fe where there is typically 325 days of sunshine per year then solar panels are great. If however you live somewhere like Seattle which experiences around 58 clear days per year then solar panels won’t be nearly as effective. You would therefore need more panels to be able to generate the same amount of energy. This of course increases the cost.

One thing to understand. Even though Photovoltaics have been around since the fifties, they are very inefficient.
Sadly to say, you won't recoup your costs in your lifetime.

Don't believe the hype from the 'so called media,' it's pie in the sky B S. Right now you'd be an early adopter, and they usually get burned.

P.S. Retire to Mexico and grow your weed behind your ten acre estate.

 

[itschris]

Solar started out big here in FL, but went by the wayside years ago. It's starting to make a comeback, even here in the sunshine state, a few bad days of weather during the rainy season and you're pretty much screwed. I can't imagine how efficient it'd be in the snow. Are you planning to literally sever ties with the power company or at least have them as backup?

 

[lsiberian]

Coal is still king.

You could always try nuclear power lol. Build your own nuclear plant. George W. is out of office so it's less likely to land you in G Bay.

I think Wind would be a much better option in your area. So build your own wind farm. But beware of birds.

 

[annunaki]

What about a green house if you are mainly growing illegal substances? You could even recirculate the air from your home through it to help cleanse it naturally. It would be a good oxygen supply. (You would need a good supply of oxygen if smoking anyway)

Obviously, you would want to grow something else besides illegal substances to keep the fuzz off your back. I would suggest vegetables year round. Organic home grown produce, nice!

 

[highfihoney]

I have a better idea.. all you need is a pedal bike and a generator.. In one month you'd be ripped.
SheepStar

Ah haha,friggen sheep,still the same i see

That was a good laugh.

Too bad im old as dirt or the bike would be a gret idea,15 minutes on a bike & i'd leave in a hurse

 

[highfihoney]

What about a green house if you are mainly growing illegal substances? You could even recirculate the air from your home through it to help cleanse it naturally. It would be a good oxygen supply. (You would need a good supply of oxygen if smoking anyway)

Obviously, you would want to grow something else besides illegal substances to keep the fuzz off your back. I would suggest vegetables year round. Organic home grown produce, nice!

Hey annunaki long time no see

Oh no,the greenhouse is a allready a go,i plan to grow all the marijuana my wife needs in the greenhouse to cut back power consumption,if i had to power a grow from solar it would cause me to need a larger system than my home could accept,there isnt enough free space where i could put the panels,growing outdoors is much easier than growing indoors plus its free so im all over the free deal,im very cheap when it comes right down to it.

We will be legal growers very soon anyways,my wife has been assured from her pain management doctor to be one of the 1st to recieve the authorization needed & im pretty sure i qualify as well with my long term back problems,the very day she gets the legal right to possess & grow im moving the grow outdoors where its free.

I do grow medical marijuana for my wife but this leap i plan to make to solar really is about other issues,i hate owing money to anybody & i want/need to retire very soon to help care for my wife,her multiple sclerosis is progressing at a rate which will leave her in a wheel chair within the next couple of years,her mobility has gone down hill very rapidly & is to the point right now that she cant even drive very far,about to the corner store & back is her limit,its just a matter of time before she looses all mobility,when that happens i need to be in a position where i can care for her & not stick her with round the clock nursing while i work,im just not going to do that to her no matter what.

We've made smart choices with our money & we have enough liquid assets put aside where we will be able to survive for a few years, along with money i have comming in monthly from rental homes ive invested in over the last 2 years,all our houses are 100% paid off free & clear,all the cars have been paid off & we have no monthly bills except energy bills,ive insulated our home to where it takes allmost no effort to heat or cool the home, ive installed a wood burning whole house heat pump system,the wood to fuel the heating system will come from land i own in the northern part of the state so there will be no costs there as well.

The last thing i need to get inline is the electrical consumption thats why im thinking heavily on solar,if i can accomplish getting a system installed that is large enough to supply our daily needs then we'll be bill free & that is where i need to be before i retire.

 

[highfihoney]

Solar started out big here in FL, but went by the wayside years ago. It's starting to make a comeback, even here in the sunshine state, a few bad days of weather during the rainy season and you're pretty much screwed. I can't imagine how efficient it'd be in the snow. Are you planning to literally sever ties with the power company or at least have them as backup?

No i still want to be tied to the main power grid for two reasons,one being incasse we need more power than we have available,the 2nd reason is so if we have any extra power we dont use than we can sell it back to Detroit Edison.

 

[highfihoney]

I heard the Planet Green Channel has a show called "Living with Ed"

WTF happened to that guy anyways,he flipped directly out over the last 20 years,he's nuts with the green everything.

I watch him all the time on the green chanel,the new dude im watching is Les Stroud from survivorman,he's building a 100% solar powered home on 150 acres somewhere in Canada,i love watching that guy no matter what show he's doing.

 

[highfihoney]

To be honest I don't see at as cost effective in your area. You will likely no see the savings in your lifetime. If you could DIY maybe, but other than that option. I don't see Solar as feasible or useful in Michigan. In the winter you would be unable to rely on the solar panels and you would have to clean them from snow and ice.

I think you would be much better served with Wind Power, but that's my $0.02.

Now let me at least get you started with a cost estimate.

For 2,000 KwH a month in electricity you would need to spend around 180,000 dollars on the setup and install. It would take you almost 30 years to break even. even after incentives

Why not just take the 180,000 dollars and put it in a nice money market bank account. That would give you enough to pay the bill each month.

You would likely want to remain on the grid because when you don't use the energy you would probably get paid for it. If you off grid you will not have power when you aren't getting enough solar energy.

FindSolar.com is an excellent source.

You bring up some valid points especially on costs,i can cut instalation costs dramtically by doing most of the install myself,the company i work for can pull the permit,i can get the crane needed to get the panels to their location for free & i have quite a few tradesmen & my best friend who is a master electrician that are willing to help as well,as long as i/we work in tandem with a liscensed solar installer im good to go,this is where i intend to end up with the project,i have yet to locate a contractor who is willing to share the project with me being the contractor through the company i work for but i will find one who's willing,of that i have no doubt.

Putting money into banks or money markets scares the crap out of me,the way banks are frittering away peoples money it worries me greatly,im a constructin worker & not educated in the ways of investments & such,i cant trust my life's savings to something i know nothing about like investments,its too big a risk.

Another thing is putting any amount of money in the bank makes marijuana growers a prime target for the federal government to use as an atm machine with seizure laws,ive allready lost one home to seizure & i refuse to leave them access to any of my assets,even when im 100% legal to grow according to our state laws i'll still be violating federal law,a guy with money in the bank looks like a big fat red bullseye to the feds,if i put that kinda cash in a bank it wouldnt be 12 months & they'd seize all of it & my family would be starving.

The government left me broke & homeless before from seizing everything i owned & im confident they will do it again if i give them the opportunity,everything with the governments phony war on pot boils down to cash & seizures, not justice, i cant take the risk at my age because once the government seize's assets people rarely ever get any of it back no matter how legal the assets were to start with,all my assets were obtained from over 30 years of hard work & it's too much chance to take with the government seizing everything i own,then justifying it because i grow weed for my wife.

I do gotta question your figures on the solar systems though,where are you getting $180,000 from,hopefully you were just taking a wild stab because so far my initial research is showing that i should be able to accomplish this for less than $40,000,that is with me being the general contractor & cutting out the profit margin of the solar contractor.

If you have any info i could use on costs or associated costs please post the info.

 

[alexwakelin]

I don't know about your state, but in Arizona, if you receive any government money to help with the installation then you are not eligible to sell power back to the grid. If you expect to be producing a large surplus, it may benefit you in the long run to pass on government money.

 

[highfihoney]

I doubt you would see your investment back.

HEY tls how's life treating you,good i hope.

Well i am looking at the long term aspect of solar power,if it took me 25 years to recoup my investment im ok with that,even if i lost a few points over the course of 20 or so years just being able to survive with no monthly payments, or very small monthly payments makes it worth loosing a few points.

If my wife was not sick i wouldnt dream of investing in solar,or in the wood fuel heat pump we installed,its just too scary for me to leave my job when a person in my care is sick & have to rely on savings to pay the monthly bills.

Im still seriously undecided on the whole solar power deal,after i speak with some manufacturers & contractors i may switch gears & go with a limited solar system to supply partial power,ive still go alot of reading to do before i make my mind up on how to implement solar energy as part of my monthly budget slashing plans.

 

[highfihoney]

http://www.sunwize.com/aboutsw/sunwize-solar-energy-index.php
http://www.solarpowerrocks.com/michigan/
http://www.eventhorizonsolar.com/
I hope this helps ......

Thanks for the info jamie,its appreciated very much,ive got a whole slew of bookmarked info to start digesting over the next week or two.

Shoot me a pm when your heading around my kneck of the woods,i'd love to bring my wife to hear the band you tour with & to see you work,its allways cool to put a face with the name.

 

[highfihoney]

Lots of great info so far. If I may add:

Highfihoney, the first thing that you need is "location."
Somewhere that doesn't have two weather extremes, as you have in Michigan. Hot summers and frigid winters aren't the best starting points. The point being, less of a weather extreme, means less power demand.

The next thing to consider: Sunlight Levels - If you’re lucky to live somewhere sunny like Santa Fe where there is typically 325 days of sunshine per year then solar panels are great. If however you live somewhere like Seattle which experiences around 58 clear days per year then solar panels won’t be nearly as effective. You would therefore need more panels to be able to generate the same amount of energy. This of course increases the cost.

One thing to understand. Even though Photovoltaics have been around since the fifties, they are very inefficient.
Sadly to say, you won't recoup your costs in your lifetime.

Don't believe the hype from the 'so called media,' it's pie in the sky B S. Right now you'd be an early adopter, and they usually get burned.

P.S. Retire to Mexico and grow your weed behind your ten acre estate.

Hey rick.

Mexico

Im getting better & better at growing every grow,my harvest yeilds are large enough where we really only need one grow per year & the wife will have all the pot she could possible smoke,we still have boat loads left over to give away to friends & family which is where most of it goes.

My Top 44 feminised breeding turned out absolutely perfect too BTW.

Im very glad i rekindled my love for growing,i took 20 plus years off & allways missed the interaction with the plants,its my favorite hobby & far above my love for audio,its gratifying as all get out doing something that 99% of the population is clueless as how to go about.

Once our new Med MJ law is fully functional here in Michigan i'll gladly offer my services to any legal user i can to help them create the indoor growing enviroment,its been alot of fun for us thats for sure.

In my dreams i'd love to be able to generate enough power to supply our entire home & then have extra to sell back to Edison but when reality sets in its doubtfull i'll reach that point,ive got plenty of space on my roof for panels,the deciding factor on if i go solar & to what extent i decide to go with is centered around what my investment will be.

I can spend as much as $50,000 if it will get me to the point i have zero utility bills comming in each month & possibly a few watts to sell back,if i cant hit that goal then i'll have to rethink the entire solar plan,there are a few things i can do with the installation to keep consumption down & ease the demand put on the system,i can add skylights in several areas of the home to help with enegry draw for lighting,i can also use mostly DC lighting to save on losses from the DC to AC conversion process,solar hot water heating is also an option.

If i cant reach my goal of total solar supply then my plan b is to install a limited supply system,mainly to run dc lighting in the home as well as solar hot water supply,all the outdoor lighting would be solar as well.