subjective commentary...Kappa Perfect 12VQ

[Guiria]

I'm interested in hearing other forum members experiences beyond SPL with the VQ. For example there are some sweet scenes in Transformers that I can't wait to watch, anyone checked those out? How does the sub handle U571 and Jurassic Park? What about LOTR? What about the Darla scene in Finding Nemo??? What about music that really gives the sub a workout?

I'm looking for specific examples of movie / music scenes that made you think it was all worth it, not a number from a graph or SPL meter...

Thanks

 

[Haoleb]

i thought that the original pirates of the carribean was more impressive than any of the above mentioned movies myself. Especially the scene when kiera knightley falls in the water and the medallion sends out that pulse. But overall the whole movie is full of good scenes.

I wasnt impressed with WOTW, maybe its just not as impressive because of the 20hz filter in place but i kinda watched that and though... thats it?

 

[WmAx]

Haoleb, even with the 20hz filter(which I recommend is a MUST), did your own measurements show that output was considerable even at 16 Hz in your room? does WOTW have much content UNDER 16Hz?

As anyone that has built and used the subwoofer to exact specifications and uses with suggested power and safety filters knows, it has no shortage of low distortion high SPL with absolute sound quality being the primary feature.

Guiria, I find it odd to ask about SQ in relation to movies -- they just don't have much of (SQ) to begin with.... The sub will work with no compromise for music - it's a SQ sub design. It just happens to have some substantial LF output abilities that make it very well suited to modest DIY HT duties.

This Kappa Perfect VQ DIY design is at the lowest price point of my suggested DIY projects. I have other suggested cabinets and drivers for highe SPL and/or extension abilities, but the price raises along with the expanded performance features. However, there is a driver that is TEMPORARILY available, and its on clearance, and originally a special deal/offer driver to being with - but as a result there are a handful left for lower cost than the Kappa Perfect, and these will allow you to get as much SPL, with probably slightly higher linearity, and deeper extension. How much deeper? About -3 free field response of about 14 Hz in a 4.2 cubic foot slot ported cabinet. The driver in question is the DIYMA 12" on eBay. This driver was originated from the guy that runs diymobileaudio.com. Very few have been made, and about 10 are left, or so it appears, at $125 each plus shipping. The substantially increased linear excursion, combined with slightly higher power handling and some other parameter differences make this driver perfectly suited to the lower extension point with no problems. If you want substantially higher SPL, however, then the eD 13AV.2 driver is the ticket when it goes on occasional sales. However, this driver is lower in linearity than either of the other two drivers; it's benefit is SPL, not SQ. But it will over substantially higher SPL when paired with the appropriate amplifier and cabinet. To gain the SPL along with keeping or improving SQ would require a rather costly driver such as a JL Audio 12W7 ($450 plus shipping) while keeping the driver and cabinet relatively small. These are just a few alternate options I am listing for your benefit.

-Chris

 

[chucksrt]

+1 that bass rocked

i thought that the original pirates of the carribean was more impressive than any of the above mentioned movies myself. Especially the scene when kiera knightley falls in the water and the medallion sends out that pulse. But overall the whole movie is full of good scenes.

I wasnt impressed with WOTW, maybe its just not as impressive because of the 20hz filter in place but i kinda watched that and though... thats it?

 

[Haoleb]

When i watched wotw and thought, thats it? I meant. The movie. not the subs. Everyone seems to rave about that pod scene. I didnt think it was anything special

 

[Guiria]

I appreciate the specific examples. The nice thing about audio upgrades is the relativity of the upgrade.

I've got a 2300 cubic foot room with a single Velodyne VX-10 100 watt sub doing the job, it's f3 is about 36 Hz with in room extension down to about 26 at -10 db's or so. I'm quite happy with how the rest of the system sounds but the sub has always been a sore spot, I bought the sub when I lived in a smaller house and it was able to pressurize the smaller room a bit better than now

My upgrade will by Avaserfi's Kappa Perfect MidQ design powered with a Peavey CS400x which is 600 watts at 4 ohms bridged, a BFD, and a Harrison Labs 2nd order 20 Hz subsonic filter. I'm sure it will produce bass I've never experienced before both in music and movies.

Hence my interest in specific movies that will demonstrate the subs LFE ability. I have a handful of friends that are waiting to hear what the sub can do.

 

[annunaki]

Keep us updated on your build progress.

I appreciate the specific examples. The nice thing about audio upgrades is the relativity of the upgrade.

I've got a 2300 cubic foot room with a single Velodyne VX-10 100 watt sub doing the job, it's f3 is about 36 Hz with in room extension down to about 26 at -10 db's or so. I'm quite happy with how the rest of the system sounds but the sub has always been a sore spot, I bought the sub when I lived in a smaller house and it was able to pressurize the smaller room a bit better than now

My upgrade will by Avaserfi's Kappa Perfect MidQ design powered with a Peavey CS400x which is 600 watts at 4 ohms bridged, a BFD, and a Harrison Labs 2nd order 20 Hz subsonic filter. I'm sure it will produce bass I've never experienced before both in music and movies.

Hence my interest in specific movies that will demonstrate the subs LFE ability. I have a handful of friends that are waiting to hear what the sub can do.

 

[Guiria]

Keep us updated on your build progress.

I'm having the wood cut at a cabinet makers shop on his CNC router. I should be able to pick up the wood on Wednesday. Hopefully assembly will begin immediately then

 

[Matt34]

Nice, can't wait to see it.

 

[The Viking]

I always enjoy reading WmAx's posts regarding driver recommendations because they're always so suspenseful and riveting. It's almost like watching a preview for a movie with Harrison Ford...and the driver I have been eluding to is none other than...? BAM!!! Got you b*tches! It's too bad that Harrison Ford is so old and often discontinued...

Jason

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm having the wood cut at a cabinet makers shop on his CNC router. I should be able to pick up the wood on Wednesday. Hopefully assembly will begin immediately then

I will be watching your progress with interest.

I note that you have "love em" by your DIY bookshelves, that I helped you design during a mission creep project.

The best speaker you ever heard is usually the last one you built, until a few months pass. You have now had these speakers for a significant period of time, and if you still "love em," I will be quite relieved.

 

[Guiria]

I will be watching your progress with interest.

I note that you have "love em" by your DIY bookshelves, that I helped you design during a mission creep project.

The best speaker you ever heard is usually the last one you built, until a few months pass. You have now had these speakers for a significant period of time, and if you still "love em," I will be quite relieved.

Not to derail the thread topic completely but, I do still enjoy the speakers very much, they are very smooth in sound, nothing comes across as harsh or grainy. The treble is clear and sometimes a bit forward. I'm not sure if that's the source recording or my room acoustics. Even though they are a bit forward they never get piercing like my old speakers did.

I even turned off my center channel because it does not sound as good and all dialogue etc is still very anchored to the center of the TV from my seating position.

Ideally down the road I will move these speakers into a stereo setup in my living room and build a complete 5 or 7 channel system with matching drivers, active crossover, etc.

Sheesh, all these watchers on my sub build. The pressure is on

Don't all get your hopes up, I will probably buy the black textured vinyl from PE to cover the sub, unless you all have a different, easy method for subwoofer finishing. Fortunately at this point in my life I am pretty busy with other things and won't have time for a precision paint job, nor do I want to foot the bill for some nice veneer, which still requires a lot of work afterwards.

 

[annunaki]

Not to derail the thread topic completely but, I do still enjoy the speakers very much, they are very smooth in sound, nothing comes across as harsh or grainy. The treble is clear and sometimes a bit forward. I'm not sure if that's the source recording or my room acoustics. Even though they are a bit forward they never get piercing like my old speakers did.

I even turned off my center channel because it does not sound as good and all dialogue etc is still very anchored to the center of the TV from my seating position.

Ideally down the road I will move these speakers into a stereo setup in my living room and build a complete 5 or 7 channel system with matching drivers, active crossover, etc.

Sheesh, all these watchers on my sub build. The pressure is on

Don't all get your hopes up, I will probably buy the black textured vinyl from PE to cover the sub, unless you all have a different, easy method for subwoofer finishing. Fortunately at this point in my life I am pretty busy with other things and won't have time for a precision paint job, nor do I want to foot the bill for some nice veneer, which still requires a lot of work afterwards.

If you are using clamps to put the enclosure together, router your edges after construction (if you like rounded edges). Sand with 400 grit. Prime it. Paint it. Done. You can probably finish it for $10-$15.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not to derail the thread topic completely but, I do still enjoy the speakers very much, they are very smooth in sound, nothing comes across as harsh or grainy. The treble is clear and sometimes a bit forward. I'm not sure if that's the source recording or my room acoustics. Even though they are a bit forward they never get piercing like my old speakers did.

I even turned off my center channel because it does not sound as good and all dialogue etc is still very anchored to the center of the TV from my seating position.

Ideally down the road I will move these speakers into a stereo setup in my living room and build a complete 5 or 7 channel system with matching drivers, active crossover, etc.

Sheesh, all these watchers on my sub build. The pressure is on

Don't all get your hopes up, I will probably buy the black textured vinyl from PE to cover the sub, unless you all have a different, easy method for subwoofer finishing. Fortunately at this point in my life I am pretty busy with other things and won't have time for a precision paint job, nor do I want to foot the bill for some nice veneer, which still requires a lot of work afterwards.

A cabinet maker taught me about 20 years ago to work with pre veneered board. That makes for the best finish.

I wish I could use CAD, but I don't get the hang of it. However say it is the front panel and you are using 3/4 inch board for instance, dado the top, sides
and bottom 3/8" all the way around. Then on the front panel. dado the front panel 3/8" all the way around the front surface. Then you can put solid 3/4' quarter round all the way round the front.

This saves a huge amount of money on veneers and you don't have veneers peeling off, or troublesome air pockets.

Changing subject, it seems your speakers a pretty close. I suspect it is the first break up mode at 5 kHz giving the slight brightness.

Try this series notch filter.

C = 6.0 µF
L = 0.15 mH
R = 2.0 ohms

Put those components in series and then shunt the driver with the series network. That will likely do what you want. Although it is only a slight ripple, if the speaker is as good as you say, then it does not take much to very slightly spoil them.

The fact that you don't use your center channel anymore, and that these speakers lock the dialog, is a very good sign that the speakers are very close to optimal.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Guiria]

Build Progress

Here are some pics of my box I built this weekend with my bro-in-law

I took a different approach to flush mounting the driver. I added a 15" square on the backside of the front baffle, glued, clamped, and brad nailed together, then caulked all around.

Since I flush mounted without adding space on the front of the baffle this made the back of the driver hit against the 4" of rockwool behind the driver so I made another mod. I took the large cross brace and added 8 4" holes in it, staggered between 1.5 - 2 inches apart. I then stuck on the rockwool with spray adhesive 2" on the backside and 2" wrapped in fabric on the frontside.

It is a compromise from the original design but when you have your wood cut for you and a design mod comes up what do you do. Well this is what I did

I'm hoping to be done by the end of next week.

 

[Guiria]

The box has been done for about a week now. All the comments about how big this thing is once assembled are totally valid. I ended up going with the vinyl laminate textured black. The vinyl looks fine but the edges are not very durable and they peel up easily (when moving the sub and holding the edges). Overall though I am very happy with the build.

The sound is pretty awesome, Sunday I was able to EQ everything using my RS meter and an excel doc to create the graphs. I keep having issues with REW so I went the manual method. I didn't boost anything, just tamed some peaks.

The sub will shake my room very well with 600 watts total power and provides pretty good levels of impact. The sound is much more accurate and clean than my Velodyne VX-10.

I think my favorite scene so far is the THX intro that has the world, thunder, and glass shattering. When the world blows up you really feel that one.

I'll get off my lazy rear soon and get a pic posted.

 

[TLS Guy]

The box has been done for about a week now. All the comments about how big this thing is once assembled are totally valid. I ended up going with the vinyl laminate textured black. The vinyl looks fine but the edges are not very durable and they peel up easily (when moving the sub and holding the edges). Overall though I am very happy with the build.

The sound is pretty awesome, Sunday I was able to EQ everything using my RS meter and an excel doc to create the graphs. I keep having issues with REW so I went the manual method. I didn't boost anything, just tamed some peaks.

The sub will shake my room very well with 600 watts total power and provides pretty good levels of impact. The sound is much more accurate and clean than my Velodyne VX-10.

I think my favorite scene so far is the THX intro that has the world, thunder, and glass shattering. When the world blows up you really feel that one.

I'll get off my lazy rear soon and get a pic posted.

Nice project. I trust those small bookshelves are integrating well with the sub. What crossover frequency did you use?

 

[lsiberian]

Nice to hear. When I get mine done eventually. It will be awesome.

 

[WmAx]

The box has been done for about a week now. All the comments about how big this thing is once assembled are totally valid. I ended up going with the vinyl laminate textured black. The vinyl looks fine but the edges are not very durable and they peel up easily (when moving the sub and holding the edges). Overall though I am very happy with the build.

The sound is pretty awesome, Sunday I was able to EQ everything using my RS meter and an excel doc to create the graphs. I keep having issues with REW so I went the manual method. I didn't boost anything, just tamed some peaks.

The sub will shake my room very well with 600 watts total power and provides pretty good levels of impact. The sound is much more accurate and clean than my Velodyne VX-10.

I think my favorite scene so far is the THX intro that has the world, thunder, and glass shattering. When the world blows up you really feel that one.

I'll get off my lazy rear soon and get a pic posted.

Are you using a subsonic filter on the sub to protect it from <18Hz signals?

Did you corner load the sub? What is the size of your room? Just curious....

Corner loaded in a 2000 cubic foot room closed room, you should be able to get around 115dB or higher at 20Hz on up, with no noticed noise or distortion. Maybe 2 dB less with the 600 watt amp; the sub can take 2x the power easily. I would expect you are getting 4-5x the output, and much deeper, with this sub compared to the Velodyne you were using.

-Chris

 

[Guiria]

I'm crossing over to my bookshelves at 80 Hz using the receiver's crossover. I have a 20 Hz 2nd order subsonic filter from Harrison labs installed inline on my sub out jack. The sub is corner loaded. My room is a 2300 cubic foot rectangle with a door, no open spaces or vaulted ceilings.

This sub is obviously a completely different animal than the Velo I had. The Velo would sound at times like it was going to break on me when there was a lot of LFE in movies. With the kappa build, the bass is so effortless, nothing sounds constrained or on the fringes of damage, it hits hard but does so without feeling like its dying.

It's pretty much bass like I've never heard before.