router help

[sploo]

Unfortunately, routers here in Europe tend to be very overpriced compared to the US.

The better models from Bosch, Makita and Hitachi are good, as is the top Trend model (T11EK). However, they're all very expensive.

I bought a Worx router for about 80GBP, which is reasonable (micro depth adjustment, 1/4" and 1/2" collets, but no soft start).

I also have a fixed base Porter Cable 892 router I picked up from the US, along with a 110V building site transformer to run it. In my experience, I'd estimate you'll pay roughly 2-3 times the price of a similar router in the UK for what you get in the US.

I had a cheap (~40GBP) Black and Decker as my first router, and it worked OK. As soon as I started doing much real stuff the limitations were obvious though (1/4" collet only, fairly weak motor, no micro depth control etc.)

A machine with a 1/2" collet will take a 1/4" adapter sleeve to use 1/4" bits, but it's better to get one that has both 1/2" and 1/4" collets, as the adapters aren't really that great for long term use. Unless you're wanting to use really big bits (and then it's much safer to have the router mounted in a router table) then 2hp should be fine.

The bigger (higher hp) routers will obviously be heavier, and more suited to mounting in a table than hand held use. I'd be very careful about trying to use anything bigger than a 3/4" roundover with the router hand held - not saying it can't be done, but I'd prefer to have the router in the table.

 

[Djizasse]

Thansk for the tips.
I'll search on ebay.com. Some dealers send routers to Europe. With a little luck I'll find a good model that's cheaper, even with shipping costs.

 

[sploo]

With a little luck I'll find a good model that's cheaper, even with shipping costs.

It's quite possible. When I bought the PC 892, it was around 150USD - great value when you got 2USD to a pound.

I was lucky enough to have a business colleague traveling out to the US, who picked it up for me. If you're having one delivered, then be aware that the shipping and import taxes may hit hard.

Also be aware that the base of a US router will have imperial threads and bolt holes, should you ever want to mount it on a table (i.e. you won't be able to use metric bolts, unless you had the holes tapped).

 

[pjoseph]

What size round over bit is best to use or is it personal preference?
Since the bits are not cheap im looking to just buy one to do all the corners what size do you guys recommend

Thanks again for all you help

 

[sploo]

With a sub it's basically personal preference - I believe the frequencies coming from it will be too low for it make much acoustic difference.

For a speaker, it's about reducing diffraction effects from the front edges of the baffle - so essentially bigger is better. There is a relationship between the frequencies affected and the radius of the roundover (which I can't remember off the top of my head). But basically, a smaller roundover will affect only higher frequencies, and as you get bigger, the range of frequencies aided will increase (to the lower frequencies).

 

[highfigh]

Craftsman are nice. I just think PC is better. I'm pretty sure Sears sells both. HD may have the PC for $10 less. I think you can get a nice enough one for ~$160.

All I ever use is a 1/4" PC Laminate Trimmer for personal projects. They're easy to handle. I think for a 3/4" round over I let the bit eat through the base a little. The bits are probably cheaper.

I think these go for around $100. I am my own plunge feature.

But a laminate trimmer is NOT made for use as a router. The bit speed decreases and it doesn't do as good of a job cutting. Router bit speed needs to be constant in order to do a good job and for safety, which is why higher powered ones are best for most work. Lower powered units also waste more time in needing to nibble away at the material instead of being able to do it in one or two passes, depending on the bit and material.

 

[highfigh]

Unfortunately, routers here in Europe tend to be very overpriced compared to the US.

Your safety requirements have a little to do with that, too because some equipment must have certain features that aren't mandated here, like a riving knife on all table saws and not allowing dado use on table saws.

Re: router tables- taking the cutter to the material is usually safer than taking the material to the cutter, which is the reason the highest number of workshop accidents happen with table saws and routers. However, some operations are much easier on a table but it's not hard to have fingers contact the cutters.

 

[highfigh]

Opinions on tools are almost the same as speaker cable and interconnects. Ryobi isn't a pro-line brand but they do work. I have a 1/2" 2HP variable speed unit and it works well, but I'm not usng it for heavy duty all day/every day work. Ryobi is only sold through Home Depot, generally, because their holding company owns Ryobi, Husky and some other brands. Accessories are available for their routers, but usually only in accessory kits, not in a "buy what you need" way. I wanted to get a set of guide bushings and HD was absolutely no help at effin' all. I bought a generic set instead.

 

[sploo]

Your safety requirements have a little to do with that, too because some equipment must have certain features that aren't mandated here, like a riving knife on all table saws and not allowing dado use on table saws.

Re: router tables- taking the cutter to the material is usually safer than taking the material to the cutter, which is the reason the highest number of workshop accidents happen with table saws and routers. However, some operations are much easier on a table but it's not hard to have fingers contact the cutters.

Agreed... to a point. Having the blade pointing up (i.e. on a table) is a large source of danger, but my point was that using really large bits on a heavy, high HP, router (e.g. 3" diameter cutters) are best done on a table.

 

[highfigh]

What size round over bit is best to use or is it personal preference?
Since the bits are not cheap im looking to just buy one to do all the corners what size do you guys recommend

Thanks again for all you help

Shop around and look online. MLCS is one seller, but they sell more on price than quality. Carbide bits last a lot longer and dull cutters cost more accidents than just about anything else, so you want to get the ones that use the carbide with the right hardness. The really hard carbide will be more brittle and softer dulls faster. CMT was a good brand but they recently closed up. Read the woodworking magazines for info, but I would also recommend going to www.taunton.com and signing up for their forum, so you can read the comments/reviews. They have many pro cabinetmakers and tradespeople there, who can shed more light on what they use, which work best and where to find good tools at a good price.

DO NOT BUY CHEAP TITANIUM COATED TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The coating does almost nothing to make the tool better and wears off. Once it's gone, what remains is a cheap cutter or bit and it's a waste of money. If Titanium is used, it needs to actually be part of the alloy, not just a coating.

 

[highfigh]

but my point was that using really large bits on a heavy, high HP, router (e.g. 3" diameter cutters) are best done on a table.

Also agreed, to a point. Whether it should be table mounted or hand held also depends on the size of the material. Small pieces should never be hand-held and milled on a router table unless some kind of holder is used to keep the hands away. Small and lightweight materials that can be kicked out by the cutter should be run through using a guide and/or holder of some kind. Kick-outs happen fast and unexpectedly, and my left index finger is an example of this.

Any time a large and/or aggressive router bit is used, a guide pin or fence should be used. Paying attention to the direction of rotation is needed, too because the bit can grab and if you remember Steve Martin in 'The Jerk' when he was trying to buff the car and ended up running alongside of the car, hte same thing can happen, although not for comic effect. The one exception to cutting in the opposite direction is when the wood can chip out badly, and in that case, "climb routing" should be used.

 

[sploo]

Kick-outs happen fast and unexpectedly, and my left index finger is an example of this.

You too huh? The joke amongst my mates is that I can always give 1 and 7/8ths thumbs up to something.

Got away with ten years of using router tables till one bit me. Obvious scenario - long day, tired, last job of the day, tried to cut corners and do a job in a way I knew wasn't very safe. Of course, in the following days, I realised there was a way of doing the job that would've been even faster, and safe.

I guess probably the best bit of advice I could give regarding power tools is: If you don't feel 100% confident the job is safe - stop - don't do it. Walk away, and take time to work out a safer way. Never be tempted to just get it out of the way and do it.

 

[highfigh]

Here's something I found when I googled 'Ryobi router':
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2007/ryobi_router.html

 

[highfigh]

You too huh? The joke amongst my mates is that I can always give 1 and 7/8ths thumbs up to something.

Got away with ten years of using router tables till one bit me. Obvious scenario - long day, tired, last job of the day, tried to cut corners and do a job in a way I knew wasn't very safe. Of course, in the following days, I realised there was a way of doing the job that would've been even faster, and safe.

I guess probably the best bit of advice I could give regarding power tools is: If you don't feel 100% confident the job is safe - stop - don't do it. Walk away, and take time to work out a safer way. Never be tempted to just get it out of the way and do it.

I did mine on a beautiful sunny, warm day in February of '03. I had been making an extension table for my table saw and once I got it all assembled, I decided to try out my new tongue & groove bit, so I ran a couple of pieces of hard maple and the second one caught, it kicked out of my hand and the bit flicked my index finger tip. It didn't actually hurt and only raised a flap of skin, which came off of the fat layer, which is why they needed to remove the piece instead of sewing it back on (for the low, low price of a $585 "out-patient surgery" charge). I was very lucky and other than reduced sensitivity to touch but the scar tissue getting cold faster, I have no other problems with it.

I totally agree- if someone is actually afraid when they start to work with a power tool, it's best to not even touch it. Respect all tools, but if fear is part of the equation, find another way to get it done. I wasn't really afraid to go back to it but I have changed my mindset whenever I work with smaller pieces. I ALWAYS use a push stick with narrow pieces on the table saw, where i had previously been willing to put my fingers 2" from the blade (I used the raised face of the fence to guide my hand) and I ALWAYS use the fence or a guide pin on the router unless I'm routing a larger board edge and can maintain more distance to the bit.

 

[Rickster71]

Ahhh, here's the kind of thing that would send my nicotine deprived sensitivities into a tail spin.

They fail when you have all the pressure you can muster up applied to them. Then your little paw is sent flying into the closest object with all your might behind it. As you crack knuckles, pinch fingies and tear away pieces of formerly manicured and moisturized nails (you Mary) the last thing on your mind will be how you can get another one for free to have this very same thing happen yet again.

They are absolutely marvelous for dainty work. I still use their other ratchets but I don't trust them. I have managed to get an S-K and Snap-On in my collection from pawn shops but even there, they were expensive.

Edit: I think the Husquavara stuff is top notch, but I don't have a yard.

Alex, even going through withdrawal, your right on.

Among people that use tools everyday, Craftsman tools are known as a Home Owner's tool.
They are not made to be used for a living, everyday. They haven't been made that way since the sixties.

I'm not saying this to hurt anyone's feelings; it's just the way it is.

Back in the seventies and eighties, a partner and I, used to rebuild engines, as a second job.
A craftsman tool would break at least every week or two.
So, instead of making so many trips to Sears to replace tools.
We would keep a cardboard box, and wait until we had enough to make the trip worth while.

I have never broken a Snap-On, S-K, or Mac tool.

Another thing I just remembered: I learned this from an owner of a power tool repair shop, that wouldn't repair Craftsman tools.
Craftsman limits how many years they produce replacement parts for their power tools. So, when you can't fix it, you have to buy a new one.

 

[sploo]

I did mine on a beautiful sunny, warm day in February of '03. I had been making an extension table for my table saw and once I got it all assembled, I decided to try out my new tongue & groove bit, so I ran a couple of pieces of hard maple and the second one caught, it kicked out of my hand and the bit flicked my index finger tip. It didn't actually hurt and only raised a flap of skin, which came off of the fat layer, which is why they needed to remove the piece instead of sewing it back on (for the low, low price of a $585 "out-patient surgery" charge). I was very lucky and other than reduced sensitivity to touch but the scar tissue getting cold faster, I have no other problems with it.

Ouch. Good to hear the long term result isn't too bad though.

I still don't know what the outlook for my thumb will be, as the injury was relatively recent. Fortunately, A&E is free in the UK, but when I turned up - thumb tied with string (using my other hand and teeth) to try and stop me bleeding to death while I drove to the hospital - the guy on the desk gave me a form to fill in! Like that was going to happen.

Fortunately, I asked him if I could eat any food (I'd been working for hours and was hungry, and the wait in these places is usually measured in hours). As a result, he went and asked a nurse, who came over for a look. I gave her a wave, through the glass partition, as blood p*ssed down my arm and onto the floor. Funnily enough, they treated me quite quickly .

 

[Djizasse]

I had no idea these things are so dangerous. Thanks for the warnings.

It's been hard to find a good router for a good price. As someone has said, in Europe this things are more expensive.

I've been watching:
- new Ryobi ERT 2100 for 150USDs + P&P
This seems the only "common" brand that's less expensive and has some power, but after all this talk I don't know if I should get it

- "B+ grade" Hitachi M12V2 12mm ½” second hand for 136USD (so far) + P&P
ongoing auction

What do you think of this Hitachi?

 

[Alex2507]

I had no idea these things are so dangerous.

There's a reason God gave you five fingers on each hand.

Edit: You didn't think you were gonna get to keep all of them, did you?

 

[highfigh]

Ouch. Good to hear the long term result isn't too bad though.

I still don't know what the outlook for my thumb will be, as the injury was relatively recent. Fortunately, A&E is free in the UK, but when I turned up - thumb tied with string (using my other hand and teeth) to try and stop me bleeding to death while I drove to the hospital - the guy on the desk gave me a form to fill in! Like that was going to happen.

Fortunately, I asked him if I could eat any food (I'd been working for hours and was hungry, and the wait in these places is usually measured in hours). As a result, he went and asked a nurse, who came over for a look. I gave her a wave, through the glass partition, as blood p*ssed down my arm and onto the floor. Funnily enough, they treated me quite quickly .

I didn't lose much blood so I just wrapped it with paper towel and used electrical tape to hold it in place. as I said, it was just a small flap of skin, so it was very minor but it was still not a lot of fun. My first thought was about how it would affect playing guitar.

What a waste of a beautiful day. It was about 70 in February and I did this at about 1:30 PM. It took almost 7 hours to get out of the hospital and knowing what I know now, I should have just gone to the clinic a couple of miles away.

 

[alexwakelin]

I have never broken a Snap-On, S-K, or Mac tool.

I've actually broke an S-K 3/8" ratchet....but it was on an engine mount bolt where the head of my 1/2" ratchet wouldn't fit (with a 3 foot pipe on the end).