2009... so far it sucks

[TLS Guy]

I take issue with the basic poor engineering comment. Even if you are an engineer how can you say that we are making worse products. You also imply that metal is superior to composite. Which isn't always the case. In aircraft which is being built with composite now they have found a much longer lifespan from the composite than from the metal portions of the plain. In doing maintenance they were shocked at how good the condition of the composites was.

As far as the global warming hype goes I will definitely agree with you that it's stupid and baseless. Using oil is far less destructive than building dams or putting up a field of wind turbines(which will be made out of materials like oil and metals) Plus 1 million wind turbines would effect the surface wind patterns to a degree. Probably as much as the added carbon in the stratosphere from fossil fuels effects temperature.

I do think if you have great technical skills you may consider a career in electrical engineering. Though it will be very hard if you go to a good school in the end it's worth it.

Up here we need heavy duty. The modern trucks are not heavy duty. I was not referring to the metal versus composite specifically for body work. However composite is no good for engine parts in hot engine areas, especially if there are to be high temperature contrasts. There is a lot of poor basic engineering around. I do my own mechanical work and not infrequently help others.

I was confronting one of those plastic GM manifolds on a Chevy truck today. They are a disgrace, and don't work up in this neck of the woods.

New trucks are not suitable as plowing trucks, old ones are.

I also work on antiques. I have 1948 and 1958 JD tractors and a 1948 Willys Jeep. I can tell you that old steel is far superior to new steel. On the vintage John Deere tractors, in particular, is much higher than modern manufacture. The drain and fill plugs for instance never cease. You can easily thread them all the way in and then just give a quarter turn with the wrench for the final tighten. The difference between that and modern machining is like night and day.

I really doubt that there is a tractor made anywhere today, that will be moving snow in the quantities and with the abandon of my JD Model A in 61 years time!

 

[Davemcc]

Doc, I wouldn't blame engineers for the composite intakes. Blame politicians and CAFE regulations. Some of the old cast iron intakes might have weighed 40-50 lbs. Given the impact weight has on mileage, every pound in a car is under scrutiny. The new composite intakes weigh about 2 lbs vs. the old cast intakes and aluminum is too expensive for this application. The engineers are between a rock and a hard place, being forced to engineer a solution to a problem created by politicians to a cost dictated by the market.

 

[TLS Guy]

Doc, I wouldn't blame engineers for the composite intakes. Blame politicians and CAFE regulations. Some of the old cast iron intakes might have weighed 40-50 lbs. Given the impact weight has on mileage, every pound in a car is under scrutiny. The new composite intakes weigh about 2 lbs vs. the old cast intakes and aluminum is too expensive for this application. The engineers are between a rock and a hard place, being forced to engineer a solution to a problem created by politicians to a cost dictated by the market.

You have it exactly right! I was hoping someone would point this out.

The fact is that politicians who know nothing, and the new puritans don't know what they are doing. They think they can legislate and hey presto there will be an engineering solution. Well there isn't.

The car makers and engineers need to be honest and say, "this is what will cost to do things properly". The makers have not made a profit on a vehicle since 2004.

If the current mandates proposed are engineered properly, then at a conservative estimate the price scatter of new vehicles needs to be $100,000 to $300,000, and probably more for full electric types to be any good.

I think the way to proceed is to suspend the regs, no EGR, no catalytic converter, no airbags etc, and try and build a reliable vehicle for $7000 to get cash flowing again. At the same time mandate and supervise profits to making new technology mature and affordable. If this is not done, it will be like 1910, with 10% of the population at best able to afford a personal vehicle.

We have to get away from gas and diesel propulsion, it is running out, and time is running out.

If there is no a bold strategy, then the bail out will fail. All the major car companies will go broke. I bought a Toyota Camry hybrid for my wife in September. However Toyota do not make a profit on that vehicle, and its not cheap. So Toyota and Honda will eventually be in the same boat as the American manufacturers. Then you will have the regrowth of the industry from small specialist manufacturers, and cars will cost a small fortune for at least a generation and may be two. That's the way I see it.

 

[lsiberian]

You have it exactly right! I was hoping someone would point this out.

The fact is that politicians who know nothing, and the new puritans don't know what they are doing. They think they can legislate and hey presto there will be an engineering solution. Well there isn't.

You hit the nail on the head. This is the real problem. We have improved cars a lot without the help of dumb regulations. My thought is that they should let us do our jobs and quite acting like a law can solve the problems. You give engineers the chance and we will pick the best solution for the world.

That being said GM has been run very poorly and so it's no surprise you are having problems with their junk. The last time I drove a GM car it was terrible compared to my Mazda 3.

Toyota and Honda are doing fine because they have much higher quality assurance standards and if anyone should get our money it should be them. Let them build some more factories or takeover the gm ones and convert them to building their cars.

But that wouldn't sell in politics. I still think it's a lack of education though. Think about how many people the people here have helped consumers avoid bad purchases with education.

The people die for lack of knowledge not lack of willingness.

 

[Davemcc]

That being said GM has been run very poorly and so it's no surprise you are having problems with their junk.

I wouldn't characterize GM products as junk. I've had no trouble at all with the GM's that I owned. For snow plowing or other heavy duty use, Ford trucks are the way to go, but I am a bit biased there since I work for Ford (for a little while longer, anyway). Ford trucks make the Toyota and Honda trucks look like toys in comparison. And Ford's quality is every bit as good as Toyota and Honda, too.