Monster Cable is Back! Sues Mini-Golf Company

[MatthewB.]

boxingChris, I understand Joe Public won't be aware, but the reach of audio/video forums is quite strong and with thousands of members here and at places like AVS, S&V, AV123 and others, we tell five people and they tell five more and as mentioned a page or two back, it has reached the salespeople at BB (who are the biggest sellers of Monster) so the word is getting out there and Joe Public is going to be made aware slowly and surely.

As I mentioned earlier while I was standig in line at Black Friday, i was telling everyone within earshot about Monsters practices and overpriced cables and after giving out the websites to Monoprice, Blue Jeans and Partsexpress and telling them the difference in cost to Joe Public, tehy too will also tell their family and friends. That's what's great about the net is word travels fast and far. When companie pull B.S. stunts like this, not only does it garner media attention, but word of mouth (and posted threads) have alot of influence. Just type in Monster Sucks into any search engine and see what happens.

 

[Ray Kimber]

Noel,


*MMG will remove the current, ongoing Ebay listing.

*MMG will remove the “Bully” page on our website.

*MMG will cancel any efforts that may or may not be in place currently for any sort of public demonstration, protest, or other actions that could have potentially been publically embarrassing for MC at CES, NAMM, or any other show or venue, and will agree to eat any expenses that may or may not have already accrued in preparation for such an event. Additionally, MMG further agrees that this will include any future acts of public demonstration as well.

*MMG will not proactively engage in any advertising, paid or unpaid, where MC’s name would be used or alluded to by MMG in any disparaging manner. MMG will also cancel any such media that may or may not already be in place and/or scheduled to run, air, or otherwise see the light of day.

*Both parties will agree that the past is the past, and what’s been said so far is already out there and cannot be undone, but will keep all future conversations and comments of a “Neutral” nature.

Let us make it clear that this does not make us friends.
It is as if you took a knife and cut a gaping wound in us, then later decided to pay for the stitches. It does not make us friends, it does not erase the wound, the pain or the suffering…..it just stops the bleeding, leaving us with a scar.
Much damage has already been done, and it is something we will never forget.
This just gets us one step closer to complete resolution, and ending this ongoing campaign so we can both get on with our lives.

Please let us know what you think of this "Back to Zero" approach to resolution, and if it's something you are willing to discuss in an effort to end this, and show the world that MC actually has a "human" side.

We will look forward to your response.

-Patrick and Christina Vitagliano

Dear Patrick and Christina,

I think it is perfectly reasonable for both MMG and MC to put away the long knifes.

I would remind you however that if it was not for the massive support of the Audio Industry you would not be looking at a peaceful future, and really REALLY this industry owed you nothing except to speak up against bully like behavior.

Besides the public outcry on Audio Industry Forums there have been countless other acts of support for you from within the Consumer Electronics Industry. People expended time and energy and many of us stuck our necks out for you. The sum of all this worked. I am relieved and pleased that the beating of you has stopped.

4 years ago, nearly to the day, Snow Monsters was in your same position. A settlement was made and Snow Monsters and MC went their separate ways - in all likelihood with a gag order. Please don't give up your future ability to speak up against any bullies, if you give it up then the next victim might not be so lucky to have the kind of support that you have been blessed with.

Make the agreement, yes. Agree to be muzzled, NO! Noel should be content to trust that you would not go out of your way to be unkind or ruthless or petty. But he shouldn’t get away with gagging your future ability to speak-up in someone else’s behalf. He should trust you! He should also trust that if he tries to pull this stunt on someone in the future that you will be able to stand with them, as many have stood with you.

You wouldn’t be so happy except for the kindness and support of strangers, what if we didn’t stand with you?

History does not need to be edited or gagged to live in peace.

Noel should trust you! As all of us have trusted you!

Ray Kimber

 

[esross]

Noel,
While the lawyers cobble together the specifics of the agreement we made earlier today, let's move on.......
<<snip long message>>
We will look forward to your response.

-Patrick and Christina Vitagliano

Erik again with another message from Monster:
===========

Patrick - we've accepted your previous offer. If you want to discuss further, let's take this offline.

===========

 

[Black Santa]

Noel Lee has been naughty!

I have made a list and checked it twice... Noel Lee seems very naughty to me.

Keep it public guys, that's what people want! Once it goes "offline" Mr. Lee will make you some offer that you can't refuse (and most likely can't talk about.) Then next time you appear in public, you will have no tongues, fake plastic smiles and you will be driving Segway's.

I have been monitoring this story through several websites (how can you not, it's all over the net) and I've got to say that this is better then reality TV. Because it's REAL.

You need to keep us posted and more importantly, Keep up the fight!

Meanwhile I will continue to educate all of my elves about this cause.

Good luck with the negotiations, and at least communicating in this manor doesn't cost you a gazillion dollars per hour.

Live for the NOW!

 

[boxinghris]

boxingChris, I understand Joe Public won't be aware, but the reach of audio/video forums is quite strong and with thousands of members here and at places like AVS, S&V, AV123 and others, we tell five people and they tell five more and as mentioned a page or two back, it has reached the salespeople at BB (who are the biggest sellers of Monster) so the word is getting out there and Joe Public is going to be made aware slowly and surely.

As I mentioned earlier while I was standig in line at Black Friday, i was telling everyone within earshot about Monsters practices and overpriced cables and after giving out the websites to Monoprice, Blue Jeans and Partsexpress and telling them the difference in cost to Joe Public, tehy too will also tell their family and friends. That's what's great about the net is word travels fast and far. When companie pull B.S. stunts like this, not only does it garner media attention, but word of mouth (and posted threads) have alot of influence. Just type in Monster Sucks into any search engine and see what happens.

I wouldn't disagree with anything you've said and I don't believe my post counters your own thoughts either.
In fact, the point I'm making is that unlike the many past misdemeanours, this latest attack on Monster Mini Golf definitely IS reaching Joe Public which is why Monster Cable are 'seeing sense' before a court case raises the profile even more.
We're in a recession where companies are struggling to make ends meet and governments are having to step in to keep heads above water, yet here we have an example of one company actually preying on another and trying to force it's head UNDER the water which in my book is so disgusting it's stomach turning.
As for Noel Lee, he really must be surrounded by sycophants not to have been advised that his actions involving a Mom and Pop franchise like MMG would backfire (but more importantly were just plain wrong), and it says a lot about a man's character if he needs to surround himself with sycophants.

 

[MonsterMiniGolf]

Dear Patrick and Christina,

I think it is perfectly reasonable for both MMG and MC to put away the long knifes.

I would remind you however that if it was not for the massive support of the Audio Industry you would not be looking at a peaceful future, and really REALLY this industry owed you nothing except to speak up against bully like behavior.

Besides the public outcry on Audio Industry Forums there have been countless other acts of support for you from within the Consumer Electronics Industry. People expended time and energy and many of us stuck our necks out for you. The sum of all this worked. I am relieved and pleased that the beating of you has stopped.

4 years ago, nearly to the day, Snow Monsters was in your same position. A settlement was made and Snow Monsters and MC went their separate ways - in all likelihood with a gag order. Please don't give up your future ability to speak up against any bullies, if you give it up then the next victim might not be so lucky to have the kind of support that you have been blessed with.

Make the agreement, yes. Agree to be muzzled, NO! Noel should be content to trust that you would not go out of your way to be unkind or ruthless or petty. But he shouldn’t get away with gagging your future ability to speak-up in someone else’s behalf. He should trust you! He should also trust that if he tries to pull this stunt on someone in the future that you will be able to stand with them, as many have stood with you.

You wouldn’t be so happy except for the kindness and support of strangers, what if we didn’t stand with you?

History does not need to be edited or gagged to live in peace.

Noel should trust you! As all of us have trusted you!

Ray Kimber

Ray,
I think it is safe to say that we are all of like-mind here in that respect. We not only owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to you, Kurt, the entire audio community, and healthy (and growing) slice of the general public around the world....but it goes well beyond that.
None of this would have been possible without all of you fighting for and with us, and we feel that a bond has been formed that can never be broken.
We are in this to do what is right, and we would never want anyone else to have to live through this experience.
You will notice that our offer does not include a gag order, just an agreement to be civil to each other. That should be enough.
-Patrick and Christina Vitagliano

 

[Ray Kimber]

Erik again with another message from Monster:
===========
===========

Dear Erik,

I would presume that you would not be posting without Noel's permission or more likely his command.

Ya know I really kinda like Noel, really - seriously! Which makes this all the more tough to stand with MMG and against MC, but stand I will.

Why isn't Noel making the posts? Sure there might be some name calling, but it would certainly look better. Patrick (I apologize and didn't mean to call you Victor in my earlier post) and Christina are here making their case in person.

Don't get me wrong I do admire and appreciate you for being here, but I doubt you have any personal "skin" in this game.

Ray

BTW here is a copy of an email that I sent to David Tognotti about 4 years ago - still unanswered. N.B. During my phone conversation with Dave I used an analogy using salt for trademark actions. Some is required for life, a bit more is good and tasty, more than that is unhealthy and too much will kill ya.



________________________________________
From: Ray Kimber [mailto:ray@kimber.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:35 AM
To: 'redacted'
Subject: To Dave from Ray Kimber, regarding phone conversation of yesterday.

Dear Dave,

Thank you for taking a few minutes to visit with me on the phone yesterday.

I paid attention to what you were telling me about MC’s tactics and rational to protect MC’s IP and image and it sounded very reasonable. I went back and took “fresh” looks at some of the postings on the Web, including some past actions of MC against others. Dave, what you “think” you are doing doesn’t jibe with what you “appear” to be doing. If one of the goals is to protect MC’s image then you have a big problem. From my perspective the MC image has been damaged by the very process of protecting the image. Think “salt”

I would suggest that you reflect on some of the thoughts I gave you last night. Like the one about “salt” and the one about “one bridge too far”.

The MC sales incentive programs might have started out with good intentions, but because the amount and extent was too big it became disconnected from the underlying issue (a few cables). The more you pay to do X task the more persons will be willing to do X task. Where does the payment amount and extent cross the line from compensating to corrupting? Think “salt”

Noel choose a name that is both hugely common and somewhat negative in common usage. And then he poured on the heat to make sales boil. Well, different elements will allow different amounts of heat before evaporating. Maybe the best wisdom is to recognize that the word monster will only allow a certain rate/size of Empire or Image before evaporating. In our little AV world if someone says monster to me I think Monster Cable, but ours IS a little world.

Doing well is good, doing good is better. (Ray Kimber)

I don’t know how you are going to un-ring a bell. I am telling you that you can’t reach the Goal, there just isn’t enough legitimate market. Nestle found THAT out when it tried to “over reach” the appropriate market for baby formula. Nestle so outraged general society that they were running for cover, while they have survived they paid a permanent price for their greed. There is a huge difference between GROWING a market and OVER-REACHING a market, MC went over that edge a few hundred million ago in my opinion. MC did so by “force selling” products to customers whose NEEDS and EXPECTATIONS would have been COMPLETELY met with much lesser products or none at all.

I would SERIOUSLY suggest that MC turn down the heat and take as many pots as possible off the stove. What is better, a well respected smaller company or an Enron? You truly opened Pandora’s Box with Snowmonsters, I don’t think this will go away as easily or quietly as monster.biz (I didn’t even know about the monster.biz issue until last night, or about any of the other actions that MC has taken in the past, but I do now.)

I am sorry to percieve that you HAVE created a monster.

Sincerely,

Ray Kimber

P.S. It would be easy, even expected, to perceive my observations and suggestions as a way for KK to gain competitive advantage. That perception would be wrong. I sincerely and thoughtfully oppose because what I see MC doing is wrong.

 

[Nemo128]

I'm sure Monster Mini Golf won't be attacking Monster Burgers & Fries any time in the near or far future...

But I have a feeling I just gave Monster Cable the idea to attack Monster Burgers & Fries... to protect their trademark of course... *sigh*

 

[MonsterMiniGolf]

Erik again with another message from Monster:
===========

Patrick - we've accepted your previous offer. If you want to discuss further, let's take this offline.

===========

Eric,
We made you a fair and honest offer. We did not attempt to profit, nor did we ask for anything beyond expenses.
Much more than that, (and the point you seem to be missing here....) is that this is a GOLDEN opportunity to publically redeem yourselves in the eyes of the consumers, which could go a long way toward repairing your public image.

We cannot imagine what you would want to tell us, that you would need to hide from the public, but we STRONGLY caution you that coming on this board and asking us to make a backroom or "offline" deal here, could send a message that you might have something to hide. We respectfully suggest you rethink that approach, and simply respond to our fair and honest offer.

Patrick and Christina Vitagliano

 

[Bluesmoke]

I am still scratching my head as to HOW Monster Mini Golf in any way "affects" the name of Monster cables? What the HELL does cables have anything to do with Golf? That's like Apple suing Applebys for making crappy food that hurts their brand! It's nonsensical and pure bully tactics.

I have a Monster Cable shirt from 2004 when I worked at Futureshop. I think I will take masking tape and lform the letters "SUCKS" on the shirt and walk into my nearest Best Buy in protest.

 

[JAS1953]

I've watched on the sidelines for a while. I'm no fan of Monster (the cable company), their products, and many of their practices that I'm aware of.

I think many people have missed an important point here, and that point is about the words that MMG was also trying to mark. This was OBVIOUS to me from the beginning with very little research and I'm truly amazed at how long it took for it to come to light. Everyone kept saying there's no way there could be any confusion between golf and cables. True, but if the golf company is going after Monster Family Entertainment Centers and Monster (logo) marks with intent to be a national concern then I could see from the beginning how MC might feel the need to step in and protect THOSE marks, not the golf ones. Not saying they are right or would win, but I can understand the concern as these are much less specific than marks containing the word golf. Who knows what machinations really happened behind the scenes on both sides, but let's see if I have this right....

In post #84 (page 9) of this thread, after all the time and hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, it suddenly starts to come to light that Monster Cable may be concerned about these other words and logos in the context of a company (MMG) who intends to expand nationally. And based on MC's reaction to the gesture made by the Vitaglianos to forfeit them that does seem to have been the issue all along (as far as what we can discern up here).

So somebody please tell me how all these high powered attorneys can spend all this time and money and not have figured out something so obvious? Both companies should ask their legal council to waive these fees if that's really the case (which is hard to believe).

Now the Vitaglianos want MC to reimburse them for their fees in exchange for what amounts to a cessation of their smear campaign. Hmmm.....

Wasn't it the Vitaglianos who suddenly realized that the marks actually in question were (at least in one case) ones they didn't realize/remember they had applied for? And this is the fault of Monster Cable? Possible I suppose, if the communication was vague enough, but hard to believe.

Again, I don't know any of the machinations that have gone on behind the scenes beyond what we've been told up here and in other forums (primarily by only one party). There may very well be many details that make my points invalid, but I have not seen them yet. Im sure the stress of it all has caused everyone to lose objectivity some time ago, but much about this seems dubious to me. Perhaps if Noel had gotten on the phone with them at the beginning it would have all been solved right there. Who knows. I'm sure the Vitaglianos are fine people, and I certainly believe they have the right to own their company and the MMG name, but this appears to be a mistake that THEY (not Monster cable) made. At the least it seems the responsibility for the poor communication should be shared (and let's not forget that this debacle has likely cost MC considerable money as well). Kudos to the Vitaglianos for knowing how to "work the crowd" and write great letters and posts to keep the pressure on, but I'm not sure I'm buying the idea that Monster Cable should be responsible for the apparent incompetence of MMG's legal council.

I know I am new here, and I understand a lot of people do not like MC for valid reasons, and I know what this probably looks like to some of you, but I have no affiliation with ether company. Feel free to not believe me. I don't think that changes anything about the facts of this post. Just callin' them how I see 'em.

Best regards. I sincerely hope you all find a settlement you can be at peace with.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... as well as the audio community in general will guardedly forgive (not forget), and work with them to help restore their tarnished public image. I'll repost our offer.
-Patrick

I doubt that this can happen. How many small outfits have they bullied to give up their names, pay fees and royalties? Unforgivable

Monster is a predator and I don't see them changing.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...It is not our
intention to hurt anyone. =============

Oh, no? Really?
I suppose all those 400 or whatever the number is today, businesses you bullied to sign over their business names and have them pay royalties was their idea and was pain free? Hello?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Of course, you have probably bought an extra BMW or something with the extra pocket change you have received from these so-called licenses, ...-Chris

Lets see. If he has bullied 400 operations to sign over their names, at $1000 initial fee and x% annual royalties, that is a minimum of $400k and a fat annual income. I think that buys a fleet of beemers pays handsome vacations for their top sales people and makes them available to drive that fleet of cars
He is beyond redemption, short of going out of business altogether

 

[mtrycrafts]

Mark,

They are in a terrific posistion. MC does not want this going to trial. GET YOUR LEGAL FEES BACK!

Absolutely they don't want a trial. Monster.biz won their trial and legal fees back

 

[boxinghris]

Why isn't Noel making the posts? Sure there might be some name calling, but it would certainly look better. Patrick (I apologize and didn't mean to call you Victor in my earlier post) and Christina are here making their case in person.

It seems to be a recurring theme Ray.

You'll have read this no doubt, but for the benefit of others here's Patrick and Christina's earlier experiences;

"As stated previously, we flew out to CA a few weeks back in an attempt to get both parties together with an impartial mediator, to try and garner an amicable settlement in lieu of going to trial. We did respectfully request that Noel Lee be present at mediation, since we all flew 3,500 miles to be there, and his office is only 45 minutes away but, as expected, he didn't show.

While we are not permitted to disclose ANY of the actual details of mediation, we are permitted to "officially" say that mediation failed. The two parties were much too far apart to find middle ground, and we are proceeding to trial.Before doing so, Christina (in one last effort to reach the elusive Mr. Lee on a "human" level) sent him a letter asking that he take a few minutes to speak face to face, without lawyers, and simply talk this out. She had requested a personal response by Thanksgiving. As expected, instead of responding personally, we got an email from Mr. Tognotti (Monster Cable's in-house counsel) who informed us that Mr. Lee was traveling, but we could speak with legal instead if we wished. We did not wish. While we didn't think it'd work, we just wanted to see if Noel Lee would step up to the plate, or hide behind his lawyers. He did the latter."


We also see how he likes to make unchallenged, protracted statements to camera for the benefit of YouTube where all comments have been disabled, and how he prefers to make unchallenged statments on his own website where any form of interaction is impossible, so it's not as if he's a man of few words who likes to keep a low profile.

The unavoidable truth is that the 'Head Monster' he isn't even big enough to face Patrick and Christina in person, or rather, he thinks he's TOO big to have to face them in person.

 

[MonsterMiniGolf]

We also see how he likes to make unchallenged, protracted statements to camera for the benefit of YouTube where all comments have been disabled, and how he prefers to make unchallenged statments on his own website where any form of interaction is impossible, so it's not as if he's a man of few words who likes to keep a low profile.

The unavoidable truth is that the 'Head Monster' he isn't even big enough to face Patrick and Christina in person, or rather, he thinks he's TOO big to have to face them in person.

Hi Guys,
This is christina. I very seldom post on these boards but I do read everything and I couldn't agree more with boxingChris. So far Noel Lee seems to have missed the entire point of this ordeal. Yes, of course we deserve our legal fees back. But what he seems to be mssing is a lack of humanity. That has not be acknowledged. I think everyones deserves to be successful and he should be very proud of what he has built. But there is a large portion of it he should also be very ashamed of. He should be proud of Monster Cable. He shoud be ashamed of the numerous people he has bullied. If I were him and had worked that hard all of those years and honestly in my heart (there's the kicker there, lack of heart) knew that I didn't aquire that success in a humane way, it would all seem to have been pointless.

But I think he was born with a heart and we are hoping someone dusts it off...or oils it up...or just plain defrosts it and he once again can become human. It's not just about legal fees, though we are certainly due those back, it about realzing what has been done and avoiding it in the future.

 

[Ray Kimber]

Monster Cable v Monster Vintage

Snapshot of The Final Countdown of Monster Cable v Monster Vintage.


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-11-24.2.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-12-08.2.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-12-14.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2005-01-04.pdf


It seems to me that once MC didn’t have an unfair advantage that they didn’t want to have the issues decided in court.

 

[EJ1]

Monster Cable's lawyer seemed frazzled during the proceedings in the 2nd pdf file.

 

[markw]

You notices that too, eh?

IIRC, isn't this just about when MC's treatment of the little guy started to peek above the public awarness threshhold?

Snapshot of The Final Countdown of Monster Cable v Monster Vintage.


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-11-24.2.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-12-08.2.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2004-12-14.pdf


http://www.weberafterdark.com/pdf/Ebay_MV_2005-01-04.pdf


It seems to me that once MC didn’t have an unfair advantage that they didn’t want to have the issues decided in court.

It's nice to know that the courts won't openly allow a big corporation to repeatedly kick a small one in the essentials when it's down, at least when the whole world is watchng.