I need Help setting my Speakers, Sub, Buttkicker

[lbejta]

My equipment is:
Fronts: Mirage OMD 15
Center Mirage OMD C1
Rear: Mirage FS2
Subwoofer: Mirage Prestige 8
Buttkicker: ButtKicker BKA300
Receiver Pioneer Elite 92
TV Samsung 750 52inq
PS3: for Blue ray

Ok i love technology i love movies i love HD and everything about good sound and pure sound.

No loots of you might say why Mirage point blank i goot a good deal for them, and they realy do sound good, i know there is much better speakers but i just feel in love with Mirage.

Anyway the question that i don't understand is Low Pass Filter, Phase Control, and Crossover WTF????

My fronts have nice decent bass into them i think i did a good job blending the fronts with Sub, but then i see option crossover what??? i have it setup at 80khz

The question comes how do i blend and setup the subwoofer with fronts and my buttkicker i want the Bass to be as clear as it gets i don’t want loots of rumble how do i achieve that in other words for you that know a lot on this field any recommendation on how to setup everything, especially Low Pass Filter, Phase Control, and Crossover etc.
THANKS FOR ANY HELP

 

[TLS Guy]

My equipment is:
Fronts: Mirage OMD 15
Center Mirage OMD C1
Rear: Mirage FS2
Subwoofer: Mirage Prestige 8
Buttkicker: ButtKicker BKA300
Receiver Pioneer Elite 92
TV Samsung 750 52inq
PS3: for Blue ray

Ok i love technology i love movies i love HD and everything about good sound and pure sound.

No loots of you might say why Mirage point blank i goot a good deal for them, and they realy do sound good, i know there is much better speakers but i just feel in love with Mirage.

Anyway the question that i don't understand is Low Pass Filter, Phase Control, and Crossover WTF????

My fronts have nice decent bass into them i think i did a good job blending the fronts with Sub, but then i see option crossover what??? i have it setup at 80khz

The question comes how do i blend and setup the subwoofer with fronts and my buttkicker i want the Bass to be as clear as it gets i don’t want loots of rumble how do i achieve that in other words for you that know a lot on this field any recommendation on how to setup everything, especially Low Pass Filter, Phase Control, and Crossover etc.
THANKS FOR ANY HELP

You have two options.

Your sub has a crossover. It can be turned on or off, please read your manual.

The low pass crossover if engaged is variable from 40 to 120 Hz.

Your receiver has a crossover to the speakers as well. Read that manual too!

Do not use both crossovers.

I recommend you leave your sub crossover off.

If you do, go to your speaker set up menu in your receiver.

Select sub yes. Set speakers to small, and set the crossover to 80 Hz for a start.

Now if you have a disc with tones, Play a 50 Hz tone. Set the phase control on your sub to the number of degrees that gives the loudest level. Do this carefully.

Now set the sub to a level that gently reinforces the bass, but is not intrusive.

 

[lbejta]

You have two options.

Your sub has a crossover. It can be turned on or off, please read your manual.

The low pass crossover if engaged is variable from 40 to 120 Hz.

Your receiver has a crossover to the speakers as well. Read that manual too!

Do not use both crossovers.

I recommend you leave your sub crossover off.

If you do, go to your speaker set up menu in your receiver.

Select sub yes. Set speakers to small, and set the crossover to 80 Hz for a start.

Now if you have a disc with tones, Play a 50 Hz tone. Set the phase control on your sub to the number of degrees that gives the loudest level. Do this carefully.

Now set the sub to a level that gently reinforces the bass, but is not intrusive.

Are you saying that my OMD 15 and the rest of the speakers are small or that's just configuration think, and how about equalizer do you have any template or any suggestion.
I think when i set the speakers to small i lose sound i think it just sounds week, because setting them to small i am not utilizing my OMD 15 6inq woofers. Then the whole low frequencies will go to Sub Right.
I think i had this setup and the Sub was not to my standards………oh i am so much in pain that i can't find that sweet spot for the speakers.
But nevertheless i will try tonight your suggestion and see what i get, i will try to run MACC 2 and just follow your instructions.
I thank you for the help and suggestion. Please keep it coming I am open to any suggestion.

And do anyone know any link for someone to come home and set them up any professional audioholic, I need to know how much they charge is it worth it or should I just sit and read and do my own homework.

 

[the grunt]

Here are a couple links that might help you sort things out.

Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple

Featured Reviews & Articles

There are many more helpful articles here at Audioholics. Just go to the “Home” page and look under the “Tips & Tricks” menu running near the top of the page.

Are you saying that my OMD 15 and the rest of the speakers are small or that's just configuration think

No he’s not suggesting that your speakers are small just that setting them to small in the receiver’s menu and a crossover of 80Hz is a good starting place. From here you can start tweaking your system to get the sound more the way you like it. For example if you like more bass coming from your front speakers you can try a lower crossover like 60Hz or 40Hz. You can get even more bass if your receiver has a setting to send the bass to the front speakers by setting them to large and then using a crossover to also send the low frequencies to the subwoofer. But duplicating bass from many sources can cause other problems which is why it would be best to start by following TLSguy’s advice and then tweak a little at a time from there.

I think when i set the speakers to small i lose sound i think it just sounds week, because setting them to small i am not utilizing my OMD 15 6inq woofers. Then the whole low frequencies will go to Sub Right

Your right, when set to small the low frequencies are rerouted to the subwoofer. It might just be that your subwoofer is calibrated if MACC 2 is the auto setup for your Pioneer then you should try it as it should help get all your system to a common balanced starting point.

And do anyone know any link for someone to come home and set them up any professional audioholic, I need to know how much they charge is it worth it or should I just sit and read and do my own homework.

Since it sounds like you want to get the most out of your system and that you already have an idea how you like it to sound then doing your homework by reading your manuals and some setup articles on the internet is your best route. Spending a little time now will pay huge dividends later and save you the money professional calibration would cost.

As for your Buttkicker, does the version you have come with and Amp and if so which one. Generally you want to use a “Y-splitter” from your receiver’s subwoofer line-out. Send one wire to your subwoofer and the other to the Buttkicker Amp. Before using the Buttkicker I suggest you get all your speakers calibrated to get the best bass you feel you can out of them. Then integrate the Buttkicker and use it to give you the lowest bass or to make up for anything that you feel your subwoofer isn’t giving you.

Cheers,
Dean

 

[Midcow2]

Are you saying that my OMD 15 and the rest of the speakers are small or that's just configuration think

Setting to samll is just a configuration thing; It has nothing to do with the sixze of your speakers.

You set it to "small" and then you set a crossover frequency which sends all frequencies at crossover and lower to the "sub preout" or "LFE" which you connect to your subwoofer. Your speakers then receive medium low, mid range and high and you sub receives the low signals. This way the speakers receive the frequency ranges they can play with the best sound.

Good Luck!

MidCow2

 

[lbejta]

Setting to samll is just a configuration thing; It has nothing to do with the sixze of your speakers.

You set it to "small" and then you set a crossover frequency which sends all frequencies at crossover and lower to the "sub preout" or "LFE" which you connect to your subwoofer. Your speakers then receive medium low, mid range and high and you sub receives the low signals. This way the speakers receive the frequency ranges they can play with the best sound.

Good Luck!

MidCow2

So as per my understanding correct me if i am wrong, let' say i set the speakers to Small but if i chose crosover 50 wich that's my lowest option that means that all lower frequency below 50 will go to the sub and 50 and up to the front speakers. is that Right ? There is another thing if they are Small and than i go to equalizer i dont have the option to play with lower frequency

But if set them up to small and change the frequency to 50 maybe it will give that option............ if it will that's great..... becouse at crosover 80 with small i did not get option for lower frequency but i will try with 50.

Thank you guys for all the help. By the way my Buttkicker has an AMP go to amazon and type: ButtKicker BKA300 Wireless Great Deal

thanks and keep the info coming i am learning more and more and i thank you again all of you for taking time explainng me how things works.

 

[lbejta]

By the way this is another reply i got from another forum:

***************
When using a receiver with bass management, the usual suggestion is to turn the sub's crossover up as high as it will go. The reason is that you will be using the receiver's and not the sub's crossover, and you want the sub's crossover to not interfere.

Some receiver's have the ability to measure and correct phase. In that case, it does not matter where phase is set. Otherwise, you need to try both positions to see which one works best.

He is saying on other words Bypass crossover on the sub turn the volume all the way up becouse i dont have Crossover option to turn it all the way up ????????

Below are my Subs Option

CROSSOVER MODE – This switch allows for the selection of either crossover
Activated or Crossover Bypassed. (Please see the connections section for
suggestions on which mode is appropriate for your installation.)

LOW-PASS FILTER – This control allows for the adjustment of the low-pass
filter. Adjustments can infinitely be made from 40Hz to 120Hz. This will
determine the highest frequency that the subwoofer will reproduce.

PHASE – This switch allows for the adjustment of the phase of the subwoofer,
in relation to the speakers used in your system, from -180 to +180 degrees.

VOLUME LEVEL – This knob can be adjusted to control the level of output
from your subwoofer. The level chosen should allow the subwoofer to blend
its output with that of the rest of your audio system.

 

[the grunt]

So as per my understanding correct me if i am wrong, let' say i set the speakers to Small but if i chose crosover 50 wich that's my lowest option that means that all lower frequency below 50 will go to the sub and 50 and up to the front speakers. is that Right ?

For the most part that is correct. Most crossovers are not like brick walls where it just completely splits the signal at the crossover point say 50Hz. They usually roll off the signal or decrease what is going to the main speakers while increasing the signal going to the subwoofer over a frequency range. This helps make for a smother transition between from the speakers to the subwoofer. I believe your speakers are rated down to 33Hz +/-3dB so using a 50Hz crossover will probably work with them though you might want to start with 60Hz.

But keep in mind what MidCow2 said about splitting the signal so each piece of equipment, speakers and subwoofer, are giving you the best sound because they are each doing what they are best at. Also if you like to play loud the higher the crossover the more load it takes off your receiver helping your front speakers play without clipping because they’re not getting enough power, but i wouldn't go any higher then 80Hz.

By the way this is another reply i got from another forum:

Yes you should set the subwoofer’s crossover either as high as it will go or set it to “bypass” if that option exists.

Something else you might want to consider is getting and SPL meter and calibration disk. These are extremely helpful in calibrating your system especially if you want to deviate from what your auto-calibration does. Here is one option.

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-avia.cfm

Some people prefer the Rives disk

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html


I would use the following settings:

CROSSOVER MODE = Bypassed

LOW-PASS FILTER = 120Hz this shouldn’t matter since it’s bypassed but just to be sure set it as high as it goes anyway.

PHASE = you have to figure out which sounds best to you. Here is where a calibration disk comes in handy but if you don’t have one play something with lots of bass in it and try both positions and see which sounds the best.

VOLUME LEVEL = try setting this about 1/4 volume and run the auto-calibration on your receiver and allow it to make your initial subwoofer volume setting. Then check your receiver’s settings and see how it set the subwoofer’s volume in the receiver. You should see something like -3dB or +6dB. This means to balance your subwoofer with your other speakers it either had to increase +6dB or decrease -3dB (your numbers will vary) the signal going to the subwoofer to balance it with your other speakers. If this is a large number either way then I would turn the volume knob on the subwoofer up or down some according how the receiver set it and then rerun the calibration. As long as the setting on the receiver is near 0 it will give the most room to tweak your subwoofer’s loudness from your receiver and not have to mess with the volume knob again. Again this is where an SPL meter and calibration disk come in handy.

 

[lbejta]

For the most part that is correct. Most crossovers are not like brick walls where it just completely splits the signal at the crossover point say 50Hz. They usually roll off the signal or decrease what is going to the main speakers while increasing the signal going to the subwoofer over a frequency range. This helps make for a smother transition between from the speakers to the subwoofer. I believe your speakers are rated down to 33Hz +/-3dB so using a 50Hz crossover will probably work with them though you might want to start with 60Hz.

But keep in mind what MidCow2 said about splitting the signal so each piece of equipment, speakers and subwoofer, are giving you the best sound because they are each doing what they are best at. Also if you like to play loud the higher the crossover the more load it takes off your receiver helping your front speakers play without clipping because they’re not getting enough power, but i wouldn't go any higher then 80Hz.



Yes you should set the subwoofer’s crossover either as high as it will go or set it to “bypass” if that option exists.

Something else you might want to consider is getting and SPL meter and calibration disk. These are extremely helpful in calibrating your system especially if you want to deviate from what your auto-calibration does. Here is one option.

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-avia.cfm

Some people prefer the Rives disk

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html


I would use the following settings:

CROSSOVER MODE = Bypassed

LOW-PASS FILTER = 120Hz this shouldn’t matter since it’s bypassed but just to be sure set it as high as it goes anyway.

PHASE = you have to figure out which sounds best to you. Here is where a calibration disk comes in handy but if you don’t have one play something with lots of bass in it and try both positions and see which sounds the best.

VOLUME LEVEL = try setting this about 1/4 volume and run the auto-calibration on your receiver and allow it to make your initial subwoofer volume setting. Then check your receiver’s settings and see how it set the subwoofer’s volume in the receiver. You should see something like -3dB or +6dB. This means to balance your subwoofer with your other speakers it either had to increase +6dB or decrease -3dB (your numbers will vary) the signal going to the subwoofer to balance it with your other speakers. If this is a large number either way then I would turn the volume knob on the subwoofer up or down some according how the receiver set it and then rerun the calibration. As long as the setting on the receiver is near 0 it will give the most room to tweak your subwoofer’s loudness from your receiver and not have to mess with the volume knob again. Again this is where an SPL meter and calibration disk come in handy.

"""Also if you like to play loud the higher the crossover the more load it takes off your receiver helping your front speakers play without clipping because they’re not getting enough power, but i wouldn't go any higher then 80Hz."""

Yes i do play them Loud i watch my blue ray movies and i like every detail to come out of them on the same time to have enough Bass so it shakes my feets from the ground. Mainly Movies and Music. (Watch Underworld) Qapter 1 or 2 underground section there are so many details beautiful) DTS-HD 5.1.

Anyway i will try with 50hz becouse in Pionner elite 92 i have them set at 80 and than if go down next option will give me 50, i dont think i have 60, i will have to look into that more.

What is perpuos of Phase what does it give you or takes you if you play with the knob.

Hope when i take all this info i will get what i want, thank you again and keep it coming.

 

[the grunt]

What is perpuos of Phase what does it give you or takes you if you play with the knob.

At the crossover frequency between your speakers and subwoofer there is a range where they are both sending out the same sound waves. If these waves are “in phase” they will reinforce each other if they are 180 degrees “out of phase” they will cancel each other out anywhere in-between they will interfere with each other to some degree. Because of the signal processing in your receiver or subwoofer or because of the distance between your speakers and subwoofer their sound waves can reach you out of phase. The phase switch or knob allows you to adjust your subwoofer to be in phase with the speakers so they reinforce each other and sound better.

The best way to set this is to play a tone from a test disk and sit in your listening position while someone else adjusts the phase knob to where it sounds strong and coherent. If it’s out of phase it will sound weak and sort of smeared out.

Hope when i take all this info i will get what i want, thank you again and keep it coming.

Just keep experimenting and asking questions. Reading the manuals that came with your equipment will give you the best information on how to use it. Once you get the basics set then is the time to change things to how you like them.

 

[lbejta]

At the crossover frequency between your speakers and subwoofer there is a range where they are both sending out the same sound waves. If these waves are “in phase” they will reinforce each other if they are 180 degrees “out of phase” they will cancel each other out anywhere in-between they will interfere with each other to some degree. Because of the signal processing in your receiver or subwoofer or because of the distance between your speakers and subwoofer their sound waves can reach you out of phase. The phase switch or knob allows you to adjust your subwoofer to be in phase with the speakers so they reinforce each other and sound better.

The best way to set this is to play a tone from a test disk and sit in your listening position while someone else adjusts the phase knob to where it sounds strong and coherent. If it’s out of phase it will sound weak and sort of smeared out.



Just keep experimenting and asking questions. Reading the manuals that came with your equipment will give you the best information on how to use it. Once you get the basics set then is the time to change things to how you like them.

No this is what i need to know stuff like this: what's it’s for and you just nailed the answer now i understand what Phase is, i need to play and find the sweet spot.

But guess what last night i reset my receiver to factory settings and i run the MACC on my Elite 92 and followed the grunt advice I’ll be honest no lies the BASS it's so good and clear.
But after i ran it set the front and the rears to Large Center to Small which i change to Large and than i just played a bit with the Equalizer since i know what i want and i didn’t change much just slightly the 16KHZ i raised a bit everything else left just the way MACC set it up for me and let me tell you I was listening to crap before.
I did run MACC before but after that i made so many changes Equalizer speakers settings, phase and so many other things.
Anyway
I will definitely download or buy that disk with test tones because i think setting up the Subwoofer now AND this is just me i think it's most important think in home theater i know i have good speakers and i know they can handle everything else i just needed that blending with the fronts and answering the PHASE how it works make's sense everything.
Tonight i will play a bit more and i will definitely get that disk with test tones and see what i get.

I am so happy that i opened this thread because the sound that it's coming now is night and day and mainly again i am saying is because of the Subwoofer was out of phase with my other speakers. And yes slightly i changed the Sub's position.

I have TRIM than 16KHZ what is it trim is that something more then 16 kHz.

Thank you thank you
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

kEEP IT COMING I WILL ABSORB AND LEARNING EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT ME.