OMG!! Everybody wants to be bailed out!

[Rickster71]

I'm a bit suspect of the timing of this 'collapse.'

The problems were known for years; and to pull the plug a month before the election seems fishy to this tinfoil hat wearing paranoid.
Talk about feeling like a bunch of pawns.

 

[haraldo]

If you have a $ 300,000 loan and you can't pay it's your problem and the financial institution will hunt you for the rest of your life until you have paid.....

If you have $ 300,000,000 and can't pay, then it's not your problem anymore but, somebody else's coz nobody can make you pay that amount..... you will walk free.....

Guess the thing is just to think large enough.... and you may get bailed out along the way.....

 

[ivseenbetter]

Ok, I get the idea that the big company needs to be helped to save all the little jobs. But, the folks that are responsible for managing these big companies should be losing their job if they are steering the ship when they need to be bailed out by the government. There shouldn't be ANY golden parachutes. I have seen talk about how the legislation "limits" these things...but the word limit infers that some still exist. WHY? These people, the CEOs and high dollar execs, need to be hung out to dry! It's criminal what they are getting away with.

I feel like I am in a hostage situation. These companies are holding me against my will with a knife at my throat and they are using me as a human shield to barter favorable lending terms with the government. If the government doesn't do what they ask then they threaten to cut my job...ie cut my throat. (just for clarification, this is not actually happening but my take on what I am seeing )

Anyway, screw these guys. Bail them out...but I think one of the stipulations to any bail out is that every single company exec has to enlist in the armed services at E-1 pay and spend a year in Iraq before they have any dibs on a "golden parachute".

 

[Sheep]

Why stop there? I'm about to do a complete engine swap, can I has money? I'll give you maple syrup and beaver pelts.

SheepStar

 

[aberkowitz]

I'm a bit suspect of the timing of this 'collapse.'

The problems were known for years; and to pull the plug a month before the election seems fishy to this tinfoil hat wearing paranoid.
Talk about feeling like a bunch of pawns.

Rick- gotta violently agree with you. This hasn't just been a past month thing... there have been major ripples going through the capital and credit markets for the past 18 months. If you go back and review quarterly earnings calls starting as early as August 2007, you'll see companies talking about terming out their debt to remove their reliance on short term credit markets. My point is, many people have known for a long time that things would get back, but nobody seemed to comprehend the depth. This has nothing to do with the election.

And by the way, had McCain had not been such an absolute moron with his handling of the situation (and there's no other way to describe his ridiculous actions except moronic and stupid), the economy would not have been such a huge positive issue for Obama.

 

[Alamar]

While I may have to help bail out GM it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They haven't built a car, that made it into wide scale production, that I've wanted in the past 10 years so now because they run a cruddy business I have to give them my money. I call shenanigans!!

 

[ivseenbetter]

While I may have to help bail out GM it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They haven't built a car, that made it into wide scale production, that I've wanted in the past 10 years so now because they run a cruddy business I have to give them my money. I call shenanigans!!

Im guessing you watch Attack of the Show.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I want to be bailed out! Heck, I don't even need billions of dollars. A million will do nicely!

 

[Halon451]

The natives are certainly getting restless watching this $700B bailout fund suddenly being put to uses it was never described for - and where does it end? Who's next, Circuit City? Starbucks? Wal-mart is doing well these days, but I've refused to shop there for a long time on sheer principle. This policy of rewarding bad business practices just doesn't sit well in my stomach. It feels like an ulcer that keeps flaring up every time I turn on the news...

 

[Alamar]

Im guessing you watch Attack of the Show.

Actually I don't. Could you elaborate on the episode in question?

 

[ivseenbetter]

Actually I don't. Could you elaborate on the episode in question?

It is a very funny show…at least in my opinion. They have a segment where they take popular internet clips, usually a funny clip that has a big following on Youtube, and they conduct research on it to find out if it was a real situation or if it was “set up” in order to create a fake situation where the hilarity could be caught on film and posted to the net. Usually, they find that these videos are staged and then they tag them as “Shenanigans”.

 

[MidnightSensi]

American cars have been garbage for a while now. I don't understand how bailing out a bad business does anything but postpone the inevitable.

Maybe they are just trying to keep them afloat until more jobs would be available for when GM closed for the factory workers?

 

[Midcow2]

Remember RIP Van Winkle -Joke - Devaluation!

I want to be bailed out! Heck, I don't even need billions of dollars. A million will do nicely!

The guy woke up after sleeping 20 years and his friend said I have "good" news and "bad" news.

Okay give me the "good" news first:

"you are a millioniare"

That's fantastic, what's the bad news:

"mcdonald's hamburgers now cost one million $ each"
============

Bailouts will devalue everything!


Those who are and were greedy and overspent need to be allowed to fail!

Later,

MidCow

 

[ivseenbetter]

American cars have been garbage for a while now. I don't understand how bailing out a bad business does anything but postpone the inevitable.

I don't totally agree with that. American cars are not garbage. In your opinion they may be...but there are a lot of folks out there driving American cars that enjoy them. Personally, I think a lot of the Asian Imports are garbage...but they are cheap and kids can mod them fairly easy. It all just depends on folks perspective. To say they are garbage is probably trashing the ride of many folks on this board.

 

[Midcow2]

Let me put a slightly differnet spin on American cars...

I don't totally agree with that. American cars are not garbage. In your opinion they may be...but there are a lot of folks out there driving American cars that enjoy them. Personally, I think a lot of the Asian Imports are garbage...but they are cheap and kids can mod them fairly easy. It all just depends on folks perspective. To say they are garbage is probably trashing the ride of many folks on this board.

American car companies have unions. And there is nothing wrong with unions especailly when they were first implemented because they significantly improved the working conditions and safety. However, they have continued to ask for more and more benefits and higher and higher salaries. Yes, everyone whats more money and more of the nice things in life. But when a blue-collar worker feels that the must have the same perks, benefits and levels of living that vice-presidents and CEOs have. A two car garage and two cars was no longer acceptable. They wanted a three car garage, two cars, an ATV and a boat and wanted to make in excess of $100,000 per year. Yes, the benefits become nice but it begins to affect a company's output, but there has to be give somewhere. You either have to charge more for your product or take shortcuts in materials or reliability. Then you are no longer competitive. You also loose your abolity to react to the market. I mean, shouldn't of GM focused on hybrids and more fuel efficient cars a long time ago instead of making bigger and bigger and more luxioriuos trucks and SUVs. And if they are bailed out what incentive do they have to change ?

You think they will go back an lower workers pay? NO. So they cruxt of the problem will still exist.

Later,

MidCow2

 

[Halon451]

American car companies have unions. And there is nothing wrong with unions especailly when they were first implemented because they significantly improved the working conditions and safety. However, they have continued to ask for more and more benefits and higher and higher salaries. Yes, everyone whats more money and more of the nice things in life. But when a blue-collar worker feels that the must have the same perks, benefits and levels of living that vice-presidents and CEOs have. A two car garage and two cars was no longer acceptable. They wanted a three car garage, two cars, an ATV and a boat and wanted to make in excess of $100,000 per year. Yes, the benefits become nice but it begins to affect a company's output, but there has to be give somewhere. You either have to charge more for your product or take shortcuts in materials or reliability. Then you are no longer competitive. You also loose your abolity to react to the market. I mean, shouldn't of GM focused on hybrids and more fuel efficient cars a long time ago instead of making bigger and bigger and more luxioriuos trucks and SUVs. And if they are bailed out what incentive do they have to change ?

You think they will go back an lower workers pay? NO. So they cruxt of the problem will still exist.

Later,

MidCow2

Well said Midcow, and as far as the auto industry is concerned you hit the nail on the head. Unions have been steadily ruining our workforce for decades now, long past their original intent and usefulness in creating fair labor practices and providing a strong backbone for worker's rights. They have basically become a perfectly legal organized crime operation in my eyes, and we - the public have suffered the most. Taxes? Give me a break - that isn't the only reason American companies are shipping jobs overseas, it's also so they don't have to deal with the above bulls**t.

 

[ivseenbetter]

And this all comes together to point out the fact that American cars aren’t garbage…just the product of a crappy situation.

 

[Halon451]

I see the same type of thing in my industry, which is power plants. Union crafts absolutely cripple the natural process and workflow of any given project, because of an endless parade of Union rules and regulations. The problem is these jobs can't simply be shipped out, they have to take place where they're at, so companies like mine have to deal with them. And it's been known to get pretty rough too - they're like a gang on the job site, and god forbid one of our engineers comes along and tries to turn a bolt or something, because they need to get this piece of equipment up and running. They will threaten, do things to a person's vehicle, you name it. But when you ask them to review a P&ID for accuracy, it's "Oh, that's not my job.." It's out of control.

But I don't want to get this thread off topic, just to illustrate that at the ground level there are aspects to the overall process that are definitively broken, and simply throwing money at it isn't going to fix what lies beneath.

 

[Midcow2]

Ivseenbetter -Yes and No GREED

And this all comes together to point out the fact that American cars aren’t garbage…just the product of a crappy situation.

Yes and No, American cars can be great! However, if you begin to cut manufacturing steps to save money and you begin to use less quality products to save money. Or instead of having a fali-safe and a redundant backup circuit you just use the primary .. then you begin to get an inferior product .. and taken to the extreme you create garbage. That is the "NO" part.

However, the "YES" part. Ameica is smart and has excellent technology which can produce superior products.... albeit at sometimes a higher cost because of the safety requirments, environmental requirments and the salary/benefits overhead.

".... just a product of a crappy situation." That I will agree with you on, but me thinks it is part of a "self-fullfiling greed prophesy"

similar to ...

Home buyer ... "I can't affort that is far exceeds 2 1/2 times my salary"

Bank .. "Oh don't worry we can qualify you easily for that million dollar house. And don't worry for the first couple of years we can give you an APR loan at .005% and only charge you the interest. You payment will only be a couple of hundred"

Home buyer " well it is such a nice house , it is 10 gtimes bigger than my current house and at acouple of hundred the payment will be the same"

Bank "and even better the housing market is going up and will continue to increase forever, just before your payment goes up to beyond just the interest we will turn you house around and buy you a new one and you will make a couple of hundred thousands dollars"

Home buyer " wow that is almost too good to be true. Hey, since the value will go up a couple of hundred thousand can you gvie me a $250,000 equity loan and make the payment the same.

Bank " sure I don't see why not since you have just started a job as a entry level xxxx"

====

and the time passes to present ..

Home buyer "I can't afford my house I don't have a job. but the govenremnt owes me so why worry"

 

[ivseenbetter]

I can't argue that. I'm just not delving that deep into it. To me, my American made vehicle is terrific. No problems and I love driving it. I'm refering to the product. It's far from garbage.

I think the business model they have been using is crap. Greed has definitely played a hand in putting their business in the crapper. I don't think ANYBODY (GM, Banks, Insurance Groups) deserve a bail out. Bail out should equate to fired.