The Bill of NON-rights

[Alex2507]

... See? ...

 

[itschris]

The voice of religious people can be heard, when they are in a position where disease and pain makes suicide a viable option. They can simply say their religion forbids that. No harm no foul. But when it comes my time to face my end with a terminal disease, I want to make that choice. Me. It's my life, my pain, my funeral. I don't want to leave it in the hands of some religious sort who's only answer is No, my book forbids it.

Let's face it, we euthanize dogs and cats when they are terminally sick and in pain because we love them. Why must we force people to die horribly painful. drawn out deaths because it's natural or because some supernatural edict has banned it?

I absolutely agree. My point was more that on any given issue, you will almost invariably have steadfast clear cut, black and white, rejection the opposing view with both sides claiming that neither want the other's view imposed on them.

 

[jinjuku]

I absolutely agree. My point was more that on any given issue, you will almost invariably have steadfast clear cut, black and white, rejection the opposing view with both sides claiming that neither want the other's view imposed on them.

Agreed. The real problem is that while there is Religious sentiment about gays and marriage, or end of life issues, they feel the need to not make it about a personal choice for themselves, BUT what everyone should also be doing. All this measured by their yardstick.

That is a real frikkin problem. Same as you can't enslave a person based on their color, or deny a person the right to vote because of their gender.

Those are conditions people have no control over and should have never been discriminated against in the first place. Might did make right for a long time. The 'majority' thought it was ok, so it was ok.

 

[unreal.freak]

As for the "naturalness" of it, being gay is no kinkier than having a foot fetish or being into S&M (which many perfectly normal people do.) It is absolutely not comparable in any way to sex with children or animals (so often used as wholly false comparisons), because it takes place between consenting adults. Everything is acceptable between consenting adults!!

Joe im going to have to disagree with you on your morality statement. Morality isnt 100% religious based, in fact if you read the Wiki page on it, its only 1/4 religious, so saying anyone who dont believe in some sort of religion can and should be allowed to do something that is immoral is totally wrong. here is the quote from the wiki page:

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") has three principal meanings.

In its first, descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong. Morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.

I call BS on homosexuality being no worse than a fetish that that invovles feet or S&M.

Peace,
Tommy

 

[MidnightSensi]

When 95% of the people in your country have religious beliefs (75% Christian), tell me, where has telling them that they are stark raving nuts gotten you? You ever here that opinions are like @$$holes? Everybody has one.

Better yet, try thinking of peoples religions like their mamma. Talking bad about someone's mamma in real life might get you black eyes, here it gets you red chicklets.

I think it comes down to what someones intentions are. When it comes to something like human rights I think it is okay to say "wait a minute!"

Also, there are very few truely religious people in America. I mean, there are lots of people who claim to be Christian and they go to church, but they pick and choose how it applies to their daily life. I think I have only met a few people who are truely Christian, if any.

This hypocracy doesn't help me take it more seriously, because I think a lot of people use the bible as an excuse to hate gays. I mean, there are a more passages in the bible about how alcohol is evil and those who partake will not "inherit the kingdom of god." So, if someone drinks they shouldn't worry about what the gays do because they are going to go to hell right with them. That's just one example though, I'm sure we could spend all day rattling them off.

 

[unreal.freak]

For arguments sake: Lets I am 100% anti-abortion. While my wife and I wouldn't have one, your violating my beliefs since abortion is legal. So now you have to stop allowing abortions for everyone.

Rights trump belief systems and ethical reluctance.

I think you will find most Christians are only against abortion as means of birth control. I would never vote to take the option of abortion off the table for those cases that involve the imediate Physical health of the mother. For instance a woman carring a Baby that is still born.

 

[unreal.freak]

Agreed. The real problem is that while there is Religious sentiment about gays and marriage, or end of life issues, they feel the need to not make it about a personal choice for themselves, BUT what everyone should also be doing. All this measured by their yardstick.

That is a real frikkin problem. Same as you can't enslave a person based on their color, or deny a person the right to vote because of their gender.

Those are conditions people have no control over and should have never been discriminated against in the first place. Might did make right for a long time. The 'majority' thought it was ok, so it was ok.

If you action infringes on my rights, does your actions trump my rights. Im talking about teaching that homosexuality is ok in public schools. Im ok with not teaching religion in public schools as long as a number of other liberal ideas are not taught either.

I dont hate or even dislike Homosexuals, I love them, I dont agree with their actions but its their actions. But they are trying to push society into believing what they are doing is normal and moral. It is only ok to them. Not everyone. I believe they have the right to perform whatever sex acts with adults that agree with them.....in private. Just dont try and tell the world its ok.

Tommy

 

[jinjuku]

Joe im going to have to disagree with you on your morality statement. Morality isnt 100% religious based, in fact if you read the Wiki page on it, its only 1/4 religious, so saying anyone who dont believe in some sort of religion can and should be allowed to do something that is immoral is totally wrong. here is the quote from the wiki page:

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") has three principal meanings.

In its first, descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong. Morals are created by and define society, philosophy, religion, or individual conscience.


Peace,
Tommy

Your welcome to exercise your personal belief of morality in the context of homosexuality in regards to your own life. Don't want to have relations with another guy, fine.

The biggest single issue I have is where you get off telling others what that moral line is. You wanna tell me how to live a moral life? I'll tell you where to shove it...

 

[unreal.freak]

My state's (Washington) voters passed doctor assisted suicide this election. Just yesterday my local Hospital and Health conglomerate that is ran by the Catholic Church said that none of it's Doctors will be allowed to administer or prescribe the drugs for assisted suicide.

It makes me wonder... I mean sure they quote a bunch of religious dogma and mention the Hippocratic oath. But could this really be all about money? As long as they can keep you "alive" on some machine the meter is running. It cost thousands of dollars a day to keep someone alive on a machine. Last time I was hospitalized the basic rate was $1400 a day, that was just for being there, every thing else was added onto that. Prolonging your life prolongs their profit.

I just read an article that the Catholic Hospitals will also close up if they are forced into performing abortions. I guess people will take a stand in one way or another.

Peace,
Tommy

 

[jinjuku]

If you action infringes on my rights, does your actions trump my rights. Im talking about teaching that homosexuality is ok in public schools. Im ok with not teaching religion in public schools as long as a number of other liberal ideas are not taught either.

I dont hate or even dislike Homosexuals, I love them, I dont agree with their actions but its their actions. But they are trying to push society into believing what they are doing is normal and moral. It is only ok to them. Not everyone. I believe they have the right to perform whatever sex acts with adults that agree with them.....in private. Just dont try and tell the world its ok.

Tommy

First off, don't be disingenuous. You just in the last few posts changed your stance from the immorality of homosexual behavior to it being taught in schools. No one here that has been following the thread is going to fall for it.

With that said: Gays wanting to marry impinge your rights ZERO PERCENT, nada, cero, nunca, nullpunkt.

You don't get to make the call on what is right and moral for someone else. Only yourself. That you can't comprehend this simple notion is troubling for the shear fact that most of you vote.

 

[unreal.freak]

First off, don't be disingenuous. You just in the last few posts changed your stance from the immorality of homosexual behavior to it being taught in schools. No one here that has been following the thread is going to fall for it.

With that said: Gays wanting to marry impinge your rights ZERO PERCENT, nada, cero, nunca, nullpunkt.

You don't get to make the call on what is right and moral for someone else. Only yourself. That you can't comprehend this simple notion is troubling for the shear fact that most of you vote.

Im not changing my stance....show me how im changing my stance. The fact that it is immoral is exactly why i dont want it taught in public school.


Yes it does infringe on my right.... it is openly saying that being homosexual is ok. Then allowing homosexuals to mary would just reinforce the issue.

I knew it would only be a matter of time before you make belittling personal attacks again fire away big boy this is the steam vent

Tommy

 

[unreal.freak]

Your welcome to exercise your personal belief of morality in the context of homosexuality in regards to your own life. Don't want to have relations with another guy, fine.

The biggest single issue I have is where you get off telling others what that moral line is. You wanna tell me how to live a moral life? I'll tell you where to shove it...

So what you are saying is, 80%+ in Fl and Cal dont agree with me, and its just me that feels this way? Oh and i wont forget "we all can shove it"......LOL Nice!!

Tommy

 

[jinjuku]

Im not changing my stance....show me how im changing my stance. The fact that it is immoral is exactly why i dont want it taught in public school.

Tommy

BINGO! We have a winner. Took a long time to get you to say that sentence. I knew it was stewing in your mind the entire time.

Used to be a time when it was a well know 'fact' that a slave was 3/5's human. My, my, how things change.

Who made you god to decide what is moral for someone else? It isn't for FACT immoral. You could not walk into a court room and convince Judge and Jury for FACT that homosexuality is immoral. You'd be thrown out.

Please try. Show me the EVIDENCE of your belief, show me the unmitigated smoking gun that you seem to have as verifiable proof as to it being a FACT. It's your opinion.

Please, just the evidence since it is a fact. If you can present a reasoned, well researched, backed up with objective research I will 100%, open minded, discuss and consider. That is all it will ever take to sway me around to another P.O.V.

 

[jinjuku]

So what you are saying is, 80%+ in Fl and Cal dont agree with me, and its just me that feels this way? Oh and i wont forget "we all can shove it"......LOL Nice!!

Tommy

Might doesn't make right. And with the riots happening out there, I do believe 80% of the people out there are indeed being told to shove it. As they should be.

 

[unreal.freak]

Might doesn't make right. And with the riots happening out there, I do believe 80% of the people out there are indeed being told to shove it. As they should be.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

I havent been witness to any riots....should i be rioted upon i will excercise my second amendment right and get unrioted on.....LOL

Peace Man,
Tommy

 

[Alex2507]

I think a lot of people use the bible as an excuse to hate gays.

The bible could be used as a mechanism to not worry about what everybody else is doing.
If I ran around making sure that everybody did what was right or got punished for it,
what would be left for the Lord?

My point was that 95% of the people in this country say they are people of faith. The percentage of aluminum beanie wearers is what? You can equate one with the other all you want but that equation is not supported by the numbers.

 

[jinjuku]

Chirp, Chirp.... Chirp, Chirp. Awefully quiet. I assume there is no factual evidence coming.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

I havent been witness to any riots....should i be rioted upon i will excercise my second amendment right and get unrioted on.....LOL

Peace Man,
Tommy

Thou shall not kill?

Plus I bought ammunition the other day and I don't think I can afford to kill anyone anymore. Like over a buck a cartridge for .45 hollowpoints and not much cheaper for target ammunition.

 

[unreal.freak]

Chirp, Chirp.... Chirp, Chirp. Awefully quiet. I assume there is no factual evidence coming.

Im pretty sure i could beat you about the head with facts (and vice versa)
and it wouldnt change your mind......Im pretty tired of debating it to be honest. Continue if you like......

Peace,
Tommy

 

[Rickster71]

I bought ammunition the other day and I don't think I can afford to kill anyone anymore. Like over a buck a cartridge for .45 hollowpoints and not much cheaper for target ammunition.

You'll be shocked to know how much of it goes towards tax.