Hi End PJ's

[itschris]

My neighbor's boss is redoing his dedicated theater... that he just redid last year. he currently has the JVC DILA pj and is looking for something much higher end. I can only really think of a couple lines over above 10-15K. I talked to him about SIM and he seemed pretty interested.

Other suggestions in the $12K to $30K range? I showed him the new Cinecuve cinemascope screens and he's definately leaning towards constant height image format so please keep that in mind. I'm assuming he'll need an additional lens from Panamorph or some other providor.

 

[jostenmeat]

No suggestions, but at that kind of budget, might as well get some top notch VP, maybe Lumagen Radiance XD or something of that nature.

Then I would start hanging out at places like these:

Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000 USD MSRP and Up

 

[adk highlander]

Also check out the Marantz VP-11S1 model. These are in the 15-20K range and they also give some of their tech to the McIntosh line which I think is around 30k.

 

[alexsound]

My neighbor's boss is redoing his dedicated theater... that he just redid last year. he currently has the JVC DILA pj and is looking for something much higher end. I can only really think of a couple lines over above 10-15K. I talked to him about SIM and he seemed pretty interested.

Other suggestions in the $12K to $30K range? I showed him the new Cinecuve cinemascope screens and he's definately leaning towards constant height image format so please keep that in mind. I'm assuming he'll need an additional lens from Panamorph or some other providor.

Check out Runco.

 

[itschris]

The problem I'm having is once you get over the sub $10k mark, there's very little head to head comparisons. For instance, is a mid-range SIM as a good or better than the Marantz for the same price. Is the $25K SIM really that great compared to a $25K Runco. There seems to be a big hole in comparisons at that level.

 

[jostenmeat]

The problem I'm having is once you get over the sub $10k mark, there's very little head to head comparisons. For instance, is a mid-range SIM as a good or better than the Marantz for the same price. Is the $25K SIM really that great compared to a $25K Runco. There seems to be a big hole in comparisons at that level.

Have you asked in the forums I've linked? Or haven't you. I'd be quite shocked if you didn't get feedback the very same day.

Of all the places to get feedback on this stuff, I wouldn't be at AH, that's for sure.

Ask a Q directly to some AVS mods/admins/salesmen like Alan Gouger or Jason Turk for example. Otherwise, there are consumers with sick stuff over there, too.

 

[itschris]

Have you asked in the forums I've linked? Or haven't you. I'd be quite shocked if you didn't get feedback the very same day.

Of all the places to get feedback on this stuff, I wouldn't be at AH, that's for sure.

Ask a Q directly to some AVS mods/admins/salesmen like Alan Gouger or Jason Turk for example. Otherwise, there are consumers with sick stuff over there, too.

I was just making a general comment as it pertains to magazines and other gear sites. But I did just spend about 30 minutes or so checking stuff out. There's almost too much info over there! I try to follow the HTPC area and I usually get a headache after about 10 minutes.

But the general consensus seems to be that the SIM2's are the way to go.

Thanks for the links.

 

[Sherardp]

The new JVC HD350/750 are supposed to be really good, with the 750 being cream of the crop. If he wants to really splurge then have him take a look at the new Sony VW200, it goes for around 12-15k and again is a beast, offering a sharp picture and those deep blacks. Worth a look, Runcos are nice as someone mentioned however Ive read and heard that some of those are just rebadged machines. If he's selling that JVC and youre in the market, I suggest you work a deal especially if its a HD/RS1 or newer. JVC makes great projectors. Then of course you can go DLP, Sim2, Christie, but youre talking major coin.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The problem I'm having is once you get over the sub $10k mark, there's very little head to head comparisons. For instance, is a mid-range SIM as a good or better than the Marantz for the same price. Is the $25K SIM really that great compared to a $25K Runco. There seems to be a big hole in comparisons at that level.

Sony has the whatever 200 that has been reviewed at AVS, I believe. Sounds pretty good.

What does your neighbor thinks he will get from a high end player? How large is his screen?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not sure what it is your boss is hoping to get, but he needs to be talking to a qualified installer who can actually assess the room and make any recommendations from a professional point of view. To simply throw out 'expensive' models - ESPECIALLY RUNCO - without knowing what the companies failings may be, or what will be best in the room to enhance the experience won't help him at all.

The JVC is a great projector (RS-1/RS-2) but can't go big.

So, perhaps something with some killer lumens and a bigger screen?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Digital_Projection.htm

Digital Projection can do phenomenal levels of lumens and is an engineering based company for product instead of a home theater specific company for marketing (think Runco here). So, you have a half dozen options to tweak almost any projector almost any way you want it.

Yet, Sim2 is great for some out of the box solutions as well.

Marantz is incredibly limited with their offerrings, and while they do have quality, the question becomes 'What else do they have to compare to?' - and that may lead you quickly away from Marantz.

If I wanted a really big, really killer theater (think 20+ foot screen), then I would consider something like this, operating from a projectoin booth.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Digital_Projection-LIGHTNING_1080p_Ultra_Contrast.htm

 

[Sherardp]

The JVC is a great projector (RS-1/RS-2) but can't go big.

Define cant go big. Ive seen the HD1/RS1 paired with 133-159 inch diagonal screens with zero issues. If that isnt a huge screen Im at a lost for words. I personally run the HD1 with a Carada 126" diagonal screen using BW material and even to me thats a pretty good size screen. So the JVCs can go big, Ive even seen them here in Japan paired with 200" diagonal screens.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Define cant go big. Ive seen the HD1/RS1 paired with 133-159 inch diagonal screens with zero issues. If that isnt a huge screen Im at a lost for words. I personally run the HD1 with a Carada 126" diagonal screen using BW material and even to me thats a pretty good size screen. So the JVCs can go big, Ive even seen them here in Japan paired with 200" diagonal screens.

Not speaking from experience myself, just from what I've read. It seems that the JVCs aren't light cannons and for the size, they may be projected onto screens that size, but I'm not sure that they are ideally designed for screens more than about 110" or so - at least from what I've read.

Definitely not saying it can't be done... I've done the Panny AX200U on a 160" diagonal, so I've seen big, but despite the high lumens, it wasn't ideal for that projector. I don't think the JVC bests it for light output.

 

[itschris]

He is going to meet with his installer... a group he used out of Atlanta. He's got a rather substantial room and like I said he's got a JVC DIlA now. We were bs-ing last night and looking at stuff online. He's pretty much decided on the SIM2 Grand Cinema and he definately wants to go with the constant height setup. He's looking at the Panamorph sled setup. He's got a Stewart screen now, but he's decided on the Stewart Cinecurv auto masking scope screen... probably about 11 ft wide. He's got a ton of money and it's not an issue for him. To give you some reference, on the way home from lunch one day, he was driving past the Mercedes dealer and saw them unloading a new AMG. He u-turned pulled in and wired around $125K for the car after about 15 minutes at the dealership.

He planned on spending about $75K for the upgrade to his room. He's going to setup the current projector and screen in the family room. He's just that type of guy. It's feels intense even being in the presence of that kind of money.

 

[jostenmeat]

Not speaking from experience myself, just from what I've read. It seems that the JVCs aren't light cannons and for the size, they may be projected onto screens that size, but I'm not sure that they are ideally designed for screens more than about 110" or so - at least from what I've read.

Definitely not saying it can't be done... I've done the Panny AX200U on a 160" diagonal, so I've seen big, but despite the high lumens, it wasn't ideal for that projector. I don't think the JVC bests it for light output.

You're right, per usual. At least JVC is actually accurate with their stated lumens. I get around the typical big screen + lower lumens situation with a high power screen. Of course, that precludes me from having AT, with narrower cone, and mounting closer to eye level.

Otherwise, I have no idea how I could've done better for the money. Greatest pic anyone I know has ever personally seen. +11 ft wide screen.

However, in THIS case, lol... get the light cannon!

 

[BMXTRIX]

He is going to meet with his installer... a group he used out of Atlanta.

I need to find a few who want that level of installation in the Washington, DC area. I keep running into people who think 720p projectors are expensive.

Really, I got started with 'rich' clients, but there is one that just stands out as truly being wealthy. The type of person we are talking about here is 'rich', but wealthy is something at a whole different level. So INCREDIBLY hard to describe, and it almost sounds insulting to the rich folk who have money I can only dream of... But, when I did some work (for another company) for this person, it was clearly apparent that his level of wealth flat out blew away anything even close to the football & basketball stars home's I have seen, and the 'rich' business guys weren't even in the same class.

Intimidating? I don't know. It's money at a whole different level and my job is just to provide them with my expertise in an area they tend to know less about than I do. Strangely, it gives me the upper hand in those discussions. I then try to avoid things I sound really stupid about... which is almost everything else.

If you think it is crazy to see rich... someday you may get lucky enough to be truly blown away by wealthy.

Doing commercial stuff now I run into the same thing. I did a base up in Alaska and the entire group there was going nuts about the general's return. They made it quite clear "He's a two star general! He runs the base! It has to be perfect!"

Then I come back to this area where I manage jobs at the Pentagon... Passing by two and three star generals all the time, while working on the private offices of 4 stars. None of which means much to me since I won't likely ever be rich, let alone wealthy, and I sure as heck won't ever be a major, let alone a general.

Fun job though!

 

[itschris]

I need to find a few who want that level of installation in the Washington, DC area. I keep running into people who think 720p projectors are expensive.

Really, I got started with 'rich' clients, but there is one that just stands out as truly being wealthy. The type of person we are talking about here is 'rich', but wealthy is something at a whole different level. So INCREDIBLY hard to describe, and it almost sounds insulting to the rich folk who have money I can only dream of... But, when I did some work (for another company) for this person, it was clearly apparent that his level of wealth flat out blew away anything even close to the football & basketball stars home's I have seen, and the 'rich' business guys weren't even in the same class.

Intimidating? I don't know. It's money at a whole different level and my job is just to provide them with my expertise in an area they tend to know less about than I do. Strangely, it gives me the upper hand in those discussions. I then try to avoid things I sound really stupid about... which is almost everything else.

If you think it is crazy to see rich... someday you may get lucky enough to be truly blown away by wealthy.

Doing commercial stuff now I run into the same thing. I did a base up in Alaska and the entire group there was going nuts about the general's return. They made it quite clear "He's a two star general! He runs the base! It has to be perfect!"

Then I come back to this area where I manage jobs at the Pentagon... Passing by two and three star generals all the time, while working on the private offices of 4 stars. None of which means much to me since I won't likely ever be rich, let alone wealthy, and I sure as heck won't ever be a major, let alone a general.

Fun job though!

You're absolutely right about the difference between rich and wealthy. Wealthy means money no longer matters anymore. This guy Craig just flat out asked me the other night, "what would be your dream projector and screen setup." I told him, the SIM2 and the Cinecurv. He looked into it, talked to his installer, then decided the next day to buy it all. I believe the screen is close to $20k if I'm not mistaken.

It's fun to be around that. Intense in that it just blows you away. We've been over to his house and maybe five or six of us will end up drinking $5K worth of really good wine. Then he gets hungry and just calls up the manager at the Outback by his house to have about $500 worth of food delivered. It's just crazy.

I haven't spent a lot of time in his theater though... but it's nice. Not my style, but very nice though. I don't think he put a ton of money into accoustical stuff, but he's got the basics in there. It's hard for a lot of people to get their hands around the cost associated with something like a Level 3 from Rives. At some point, you're just spending so much money for such small increments of benefit and if you don't notice or care too much about that benefit I guess it becomes hard to justify... even for the wealthy.

 

[strube]

As somewhat of a "hobbyist" installer, I sure wish I could put some of this uber-spendy stuff in for someone. I'm jealous.

 

[Sherardp]

I told him, the SIM2 and the Cinecurv. He looked into it, talked to his installer, then decided the next day to buy it all. I believe the screen is close to $20k if I'm not mistaken.
.

You should have mentioned the SMX procurve. So much for doing your homework. In this case I dont think price can really dictate performance. I can truly say I have seen the JVC pjs out perform allot pjs upwards of what your friend is wanting to spend. If he's wanting to see what DLP has to offer then that's another story within itself. Hopefully he's not sensitive to RBE. In any event, have him look at the JVC HD750 in December, surely that Sim2 will be up for sale.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I haven't spent a lot of time in his theater though... but it's nice. Not my style, but very nice though. I don't think he put a ton of money into accoustical stuff, but he's got the basics in there. It's hard for a lot of people to get their hands around the cost associated with something like a Level 3 from Rives. At some point, you're just spending so much money for such small increments of benefit and if you don't notice or care too much about that benefit I guess it becomes hard to justify... even for the wealthy.

It's weird, but a good sales person will explain and justify it. A good listening room should be properly acoustically treated. Spending the money on a JBL Synthesis theater is a lot, but $40K in audio gear to have a true theater experience at home isn't unrealistic. Far to often, people come out with $300 subwoofers and think that is 'expensive', then they see a Velodyne DD speaker (10") for about $1,500 or more and freak out. But, in a big room, spending big for the works is easily a $100K+ pricetag. Acoustically separating the room from the rest of the house, proper control system (Crestron/AMX), proper lighting (no less than 6 zones), proper interior design ($$$ - not me!), great theater seating, tiered seating, hush box or projection room, etc.

Even among the 'rich', a complete full setup of that nature is rare, but if money isn't a huge object, the benefit to really, REALLY, doing it right is an amazing experience.

 

[itschris]

So much of it is perceived difference. When he's done with his upgrade, he'll walk in and see that new awsome bigger screen and a picture that will blow most away. Like most people, he'll see that, smile, and will be able to justify the expenditure. Having hidden bass traps and other accoustic stuff hidden where he can't see makes it harder for a lot of people to justify it in their heads.

I'm a perfect example of that on a much smaller scale. I should probably spend about a $1k on treatments that would likely benefit my system. But I'm not sure I'd like that as much as a new bd player or HTPC first.

It's weird, but a good sales person will explain and justify it. A good listening room should be properly acoustically treated. Spending the money on a JBL Synthesis theater is a lot, but $40K in audio gear to have a true theater experience at home isn't unrealistic. Far to often, people come out with $300 subwoofers and think that is 'expensive', then they see a Velodyne DD speaker (10") for about $1,500 or more and freak out. But, in a big room, spending big for the works is easily a $100K+ pricetag. Acoustically separating the room from the rest of the house, proper control system (Crestron/AMX), proper lighting (no less than 6 zones), proper interior design ($$$ - not me!), great theater seating, tiered seating, hush box or projection room, etc.

Even among the 'rich', a complete full setup of that nature is rare, but if money isn't a huge object, the benefit to really, REALLY, doing it right is an amazing experience.