Audax HM130C0 & Vifa D27TG-05 2-way

[Guiria]

I've decided to create a new thread for the build referenced in this thread
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47073


The drivers were initially purchased to bring back to life a pair of Polk Audio RT3's. I really got the itch to build these drivers into a better cabinet than the existing RT3 cabinet so I went for the DIY from scratch route.

I'm using the recommended drivers from TLS_Guy. He has been a big help in this project, matching the drivers and designing a custom crossover for best / flattest performance. I would be replacing a 10 year old speaker with factory parts if it wasn't for TLS and I thank him for changing my mind and making a build like this possible for a DIY newb like me. Building and designing this speaker has been a blast.

You can view the pdf of the drivers here.
http://www.drmarksays.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hm-130co-lowest-f3.pdf

One slight modification to the pdf design is the box size. The new box design is tuned at 74 Hz with a 4x1x16.75 slot vent., and .217 cu. ft. net volume. Outer dimensions will be 7" W x 13 3/4" H x 10 3/4". The crossover will be mounted on the back of the box (outside). The smaller design was chosen (over .35 originally) to maximize SPL in the operating range of the driver instead of sacrificing SPL for overall extension. These will be used with a sub at all times.

Today I got my wood cut and had to lay it out to see how the inside would look.

I plan to add internal bracing, flare the port openings on both sides and add 1/4" or 1/2" round to the bend of the port.

I am going out of town from the 19th through the 27th though so this build will sit stagnant for too long

More pics to come as work progresses.

 

[Guiria]

Both boxes are getting there. You'll have to forgive my cell phone quality picture, it lacks a bit of resolution

If you can see there is a piece of rockwool running a long the inside top of the box. I'm debating adding another piece along the top and possibly adding another layer behind the driver, any thoughts?

The box size and port tuning was designed to have max SPL for the given driver. The box is tuned to 74 Hz and I don't want to add too much dampening material to cause a drop in SPL. I'm keeping in mind the advice of TLS_Guy, about 1/2 the internal walls lined with dampening material.

I will be directly wiring each driver with binding posts (incase I ever jump into active Xovers) and just mounting the current passive crossover to the back of the box (or just set it out somewhere).

I bought some paper backed walnut veneer with PSA from veneersupplies.com. The walnut looks awesome. My wife and I have agreed to a dark stain that isn't black, like dark walnut or Bombay mahogany.

I haven't had a weekend to work on these since I started so the progress has been slow.

Thanks for looking.

 

[TLS Guy]

Both boxes are getting there. You'll have to forgive my cell phone quality picture, it lacks a bit of resolution

If you can see there is a piece of rockwool running a long the inside top of the box. I'm debating adding another piece along the top and possibly adding another layer behind the driver, any thoughts?

The box size and port tuning was designed to have max SPL for the given driver. The box is tuned to 74 Hz and I don't want to add too much dampening material to cause a drop in SPL. I'm keeping in mind the advice of TLS_Guy, about 1/2 the internal walls lined with dampening material.

I will be directly wiring each driver with binding posts (incase I ever jump into active Xovers) and just mounting the current passive crossover to the back of the box (or just set it out somewhere).

I bought some paper backed walnut veneer with PSA from veneersupplies.com. The walnut looks awesome. My wife and I have agreed to a dark stain that isn't black, like dark walnut or Bombay mahogany.

I haven't had a weekend to work on these since I started so the progress has been slow.

Thanks for looking.

It looks as if it is progressing nicely. Keep us posted.

 

[Guiria]

Sometimes downloading pictures off a camera can be such a pain.

My speakers have been assembled for a couple weeks now. I still have to stain them and mount the xover on the back of the box.

Now for some subjective conclusions
So far I think they sound amazing. Individual instruments seem to have an air or space around them making details from each instrument easier to pick out, and making the speaker sound larger than it is. The midrange is nice and smooth and the treble does not get harsh. I have noticed that these speakers are not as forgiving with iPod music like my old pair of Polk Audio speakers were. I can now say that I too am hearing things in my music that I didn't even know were there.

Overall this design was quite challenging for me. As you can tell the slot vent was not cut to 100% accuracy. All I used was a jigsaw to cut through the front baffle. I have grills that I will mount once the speakers are stained and that will cover up the imperfections on the front baffle.

Some of the veneered edges could be a little better but overall I love the look of the walnut veneer.

Some lessons learned along the way.
Make square cuts
Glue the pieces together squared
Using a circle jig is so easy, I'll be using round flanged drivers from now on.
Ports are way easier than a slot vent. Ports or sealed for me here on out.

Thanks to TLS_Guy for hand picking the drivers and components and helping me make my first real build a success.

I'll have to post a couple more pics once I stain the boxes and mount the grills.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well done and congratulations!

I like the look of those boxes. Congratulations on a very good first build.

I'm relieved you are happy with them. The fact they sound bigger than they are is reassuring. That is a sign the crossover has ameliorated the step response and that the crossover region must be nice and seamless.

It is easy for small speakers to sound "toppy". I'm glad these don't, and I hope they are free of sibilance.

The fact you can now easily tell you are listening to lossy compression is testament to the detail these speakers can resolve.

Just one comment, next time try and get the woofer and tweeter touching each other. The closer the better.

I'm pleased this project worked out for you. It started out to try and salvage a pair of old speakers. I ended up doing a new design at long range. I'm just glad you are happy with them.

 

[Guiria]

Just one comment, next time try and get the woofer and tweeter touching each other. The closer the better.

Right. The spacing is actually caused from a miscalculation on cutting my front baffle. I waited to cut the tweeter hole on my front baffle after I had veneered the box. I already had holes cut in the 1.5" of mdf that are behind the front baffle. That would have put the tweeter about 1/8" off the woofer. I miscalculated the hole position on the front baffle and cut it about 3/4" too high. I had to then cut away a lot of wood with a jigsaw and file to make the hole large enough again for the tweeter to mount (that was the most frustrating night of my life, well almost). Needless to say my hackjob worked and it appears to look good, but it is off of the original design. Chalk that one up to experience.

 

[TLS Guy]

Right. The spacing is actually caused from a miscalculation on cutting my front baffle. I waited to cut the tweeter hole on my front baffle after I had veneered the box. I already had holes cut in the 1.5" of mdf that are behind the front baffle. That would have put the tweeter about 1/8" off the woofer. I miscalculated the hole position on the front baffle and cut it about 3/4" too high. I had to then cut away a lot of wood with a jigsaw and file to make the hole large enough again for the tweeter to mount (that was the most frustrating night of my life, well almost). Needless to say my hackjob worked and it appears to look good, but it is off of the original design. Chalk that one up to experience.

Yes, indeed. That is all part of the learning process.

If I might so bold as to ask, what type of program material have you been using to get used to these speakers? And one more question, do they produce a satisfactory SPL without sounding congested?

 

[Guiria]

Yes, indeed. That is all part of the learning process.

If I might so bold as to ask, what type of program material have you been using to get used to these speakers? And one more question, do they produce a satisfactory SPL without sounding congested?

The music has varied. Here is a list of stuff off the top of my head

Music CD's:

Jurassic Park soundtrack
The Dark Knight soundtrack
Maroon 5 - Songs about Jane
Mana - Live En Vivo and Unplugged
Ani Di Franco - she has some cool unplugged stuff

From the iPod:

Josh Groban
Steve Jablonsky - Transformers soundtrack
Metallica - The Black Album
Ray Brown Trio - Some of my Best Friends are Jazz Singers
Royal Crown Revue - Greetings from Hollywood

Movies:
Toy Story II
Transformers
LOTR - Fellowship of the Ring
Pirates of the Caribbean
The Incredible Hulk

For your reference I calibrate my receiver at 0 to 75 db pink noise using an RS SPL meter.

Watching movies at -10 seems to be the sweet spot, any louder than that and the dynamic scenes start to get a little harsh, I believe this is a characteristic of my room and seating location given that I am 12-18" off the back wall (which is 19 feet wide) with no room treatments behind me. To make a point, my other speakers are obviously playing during movies and I think they are being pushed to their limits at this level.

Music I run a little quieter just because I have no need to sit back, relax, and listen to music at -10 db's reference level. I enjoy listening at -15 db's reference and the speakers really sound great and have handled all content at that level without harshness, compression, or unwanted noises.

I enjoy the speakers the most when it's late (after kids are in bed) and I lay down on the couch and listen to jazz music or some classical stuff. Basically easy going stuff that I can zone out to. I am discovering that I enjoy listening to the instruments in music, specifically unplugged instruments. I am a fan of the viola, piano, upright bass, even some saxophone if it isn't too brassy. I would be a fan of drums if my sub were a little better

I plan on doing some searching here on the forum for some good cd's to pick up and listen to. I want to find some cd's with challenging and full content that isn't all in the bass region since my sub isn't the sweetest.

Sheesh, this post got really long...

 

[TLS Guy]

The music has varied. Here is a list of stuff off the top of my head

Music CD's:

Jurassic Park soundtrack
The Dark Knight soundtrack
Maroon 5 - Songs about Jane
Mana - Live En Vivo and Unplugged
Ani Di Franco - she has some cool unplugged stuff

From the iPod:

Josh Groban
Steve Jablonsky - Transformers soundtrack
Metallica - The Black Album
Ray Brown Trio - Some of my Best Friends are Jazz Singers
Royal Crown Revue - Greetings from Hollywood

Movies:
Toy Story II
Transformers
LOTR - Fellowship of the Ring
Pirates of the Caribbean
The Incredible Hulk

For your reference I calibrate my receiver at 0 to 75 db pink noise using an RS SPL meter.

Watching movies at -10 seems to be the sweet spot, any louder than that and the dynamic scenes start to get a little harsh, I believe this is a characteristic of my room and seating location given that I am 12-18" off the back wall (which is 19 feet wide) with no room treatments behind me. To make a point, my other speakers are obviously playing during movies and I think they are being pushed to their limits at this level.

Music I run a little quieter just because I have no need to sit back, relax, and listen to music at -10 db's reference level. I enjoy listening at -15 db's reference and the speakers really sound great and have handled all content at that level without harshness, compression, or unwanted noises.

I enjoy the speakers the most when it's late (after kids are in bed) and I lay down on the couch and listen to jazz music or some classical stuff. Basically easy going stuff that I can zone out to. I am discovering that I enjoy listening to the instruments in music, specifically unplugged instruments. I am a fan of the viola, piano, upright bass, even some saxophone if it isn't too brassy. I would be a fan of drums if my sub were a little better

I plan on doing some searching here on the forum for some good cd's to pick up and listen to. I want to find some cd's with challenging and full content that isn't all in the bass region since my sub isn't the sweetest.

Sheesh, this post got really long...

The post is not long at all. As the project went into creep, I obviously had some anxiety about the outcome.

The fact you are enjoying instrumental music reassures me immensely.

I try and give my speakers a British balance, especially a BBC balance at that. Speakers like Harbeth, Spendor, Castle, Mordant Short etc. I suppose where you live you don't have a chance to audition British speakers, but if you do, I would be interested to see how you think they compare.

 

[Guiria]

B&W and Tannoy are the two British brands that are distributed local from what I can remember. I think the reseller of the Tannoy's only does custom orders though so I'd be stuck with B&W. I'll have to drop in on them and check it out. They sell Paradigm, B&W, Martin Logan, and Wilson.

What line should I try and compare too with the B&W?

 

[TLS Guy]

B&W and Tannoy are the two British brands that are distributed local from what I can remember. I think the reseller of the Tannoy's only does custom orders though so I'd be stuck with B&W. I'll have to drop in on them and check it out. They sell Paradigm, B&W, Martin Logan, and Wilson.

What line should I try and compare too with the B&W?

The B & W should be the closest match. Tannoy are bright for my taste. The others I don't know. I will audition the Wilson's pictured in the Ugliest speaker thread. I had an audiophile audition those in the Twin Cities recently. He wants to get back into speaker building, and was directed here by a mutual friend. He said that my rig was superior by far.

 

[gus6464]

Just one comment, next time try and get the woofer and tweeter touching each other. The closer the better.

The reason to have the drivers as close as possible is it because of lobing or time alignment?

 

[TLS Guy]

The reason to have the drivers as close as possible is it because of lobing or time alignment?

Mainly minimizing the range of comb filtering in the region of driver overlap. The ideal is a point source, which makes coaxial units attractive, and another reason to pursue the development of good full range drivers. Having to have drivers displaced in time at all is a significant negative.

 

[Guiria]

I know I know...a little late

I'm finally getting around to snapping a shot of my finished speaker. I used a dark walnut stain / polymer one coat Minwax. I probably won't use it again but for the most part they turned out great, especially for my first staining ever.

 

[Djizasse]

That looks real nice. Can you post a pic without the grille?

 

[jamie2112]

Very nice build you did.....

 

[bizza]

I tried to sent a pm, but since I'm new it wouldn't let me (I had to remove links for drivers as well)...

I have the following speakers:

Audax HM100C0


Vifa D27TG-05-06


I need some speakers for my new living room, and I was wondering if I could use these drivers. If so, could you help me with the crossover, or at least point me in the right direction??

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

I tried to sent a pm, but since I'm new it wouldn't let me (I had to remove links for drivers as well)...

I have the following speakers:

Audax HM100C0


Vifa D27TG-05-06


I need some speakers for my new living room, and I was wondering if I could use these drivers. If so, could you help me with the crossover, or at least point me in the right direction??

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I can help you, but later, as I'm busy with Loons and getting ready to go to Vancouver next week.

 

[bizza]

Thanks, I guess I'll start putting together the cabinets in the mean time. Do you think 0.25 cube cabinets are good enough, like this one (had to remove link - partsexpress Dayton pre-assembled cabinet)??

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks, I guess I'll start putting together the cabinets in the mean time. Do you think 0.25 cube cabinets are good enough, like this one (had to remove link - partsexpress Dayton pre-assembled cabinet)??

Don't build anything until we have a model.