New science on placebo effect

[Adam]

Something that I hadn't thought about until this morning is that this study isn't comparing placebos to "real" pain medicine. It's comparing relatively inexpensive placebos to relatively expensive placebos...and both had a measurable effect. I'd be interested to know the difference in results compared to "real" pain medicine. Perhaps the supposedly-$2.50 sugar pills work better than "real" pain medicine that actually costs $1/pill. If so, just tell people that the pills are more expensive (but that some group is subsidizing the cost) to get more profound results.

I put quotes around "real" because the alteration of a mental response doesn't require physical alteration of the nervous system by an external chemical agent. Of course, an external chemical agent certainly can have an effect - just ask P-Dawg if his music sounds any different after three glasses of scotch...and then ask his sober wife.

 

[haraldo]

My math teacher at high-school told this story about a guy having a kidney stone, this is an extremely painful condition, feels like somebody sticks a knie into your back.....

This guy was helped by simple sugarpills.... he just believed that he was given paralgin forte, painkillers, and they had the necessary effect... they fooled him to believe he was given painkillers, coz they had no such things available at that point in time.....

So yes, fake painkillers could probably work better than real ones too

-Harald

 

[mtrycrafts]

Something that I hadn't thought about until this morning is that this study isn't comparing placebos to "real" pain medicine. It's comparing relatively inexpensive placebos to relatively expensive placebos...and both had a measurable effect. I'd be interested to know the difference in results compared to "real" pain medicine. Perhaps the supposedly-$2.50 sugar pills work better than "real" pain medicine that actually costs $1/pill. If so, just tell people that the pills are more expensive (but that some group is subsidizing the cost) to get more profound results.

I put quotes around "real" because the alteration of a mental response doesn't require physical alteration of the nervous system by an external chemical agent. Of course, an external chemical agent certainly can have an effect - just ask P-Dawg if his music sounds any different after three glasses of scotch...and then ask his sober wife.

You'd probably have to do two tests: one is DBT with no info on price or medicine other than it is a pain killer; second, throw in the price with the same pills.

 

[sploo]

Well, the results show such things can make a big difference, but only in the listeners head; people will swear they hear an improvement with a fancy cable because they do, it is their imagination, but they hear it nonetheless.

Yep. Perception really isn't always your friend. The problem I find with this is that some people are opposed to DBT, based on the argument that by running a 'test' you are subjecting the listener to stress, which will alter how they hear.

I can accept this as a possible issue, but then we can't just say "Just listen to it", as there appears to be plenty of science showing that this isn't reliable.

Makes me recall a test I once heard of, where a bunch of guys listened to some audio equipment, with the tester changing the cables for ever more exotic products. Unsurprisingly, the sound improved with each change. At the end of the experiment, the tester showed the group that he hadn't ever changed the cables on the equipment that was being used!

Perhaps the supposedly-$2.50 sugar pills work better than "real" pain medicine that actually costs $1/pill. If so, just tell people that the pills are more expensive (but that some group is subsidizing the cost) to get more profound results.

There is some research into this. With some medicines (or treatments) the real thing can sometimes have serious side effects, so a placebo can be better.

I saw an interesting program on this subject, and they sighted a trial done on people with serious knee injuries. I believe the treatment was generally some surgery + extensive physio. The surgery was very invasive, and it would take a patient a long time to heal.

On some of the patients, they took them into theatre, sent them to sleep, opened the knee (just the skin) then sewed them right back up - i.e. very simple, nothing invasive, no real work done. The patient of course would have no idea they hadn't really been operated on.

I recall they found that the people who'd had the 'placebo' surgery recovered better, as they still did the same physio work, believed they had been 'fixed' internally, but of course their bodies weren't having to heal from invasive surgery.

 

[haraldo]

It's all about perception.
You could apply these dbt's to politicians too.
Instead of price, substitute the politician's public persona, or charisma.
The public assumes, the more charisma the better politician.

Yeah, guess that's why you have such a nice president in the US

To be honest, I never ever heard about DBT of politicians, he he he he

 

[mtrycrafts]

....
To be honest, I never ever heard about DBT of politicians, he he he he

Yep, it might be an oxymoron

 

[MidnightSensi]

Something that I hadn't thought about until this morning is that this study isn't comparing placebos to "real" pain medicine. It's comparing relatively inexpensive placebos to relatively expensive placebos...and both had a measurable effect. I'd be interested to know the difference in results compared to "real" pain medicine. Perhaps the supposedly-$2.50 sugar pills work better than "real" pain medicine that actually costs $1/pill. If so, just tell people that the pills are more expensive (but that some group is subsidizing the cost) to get more profound results.

I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference of doing an 80 versus having a sugar pill, even if the sugar pill costs more. I'll just think I'd been ripped off.

They sure give a lot of Nobel Peace Prizes out.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference of doing an 80 versus having a sugar pill, even if the sugar pill costs more. I'll just think I'd been ripped off.

They sure give a lot of Nobel Peace Prizes out.

Did you just do an 80?

 

[yettitheman]

Does the placebo effect work on $1000 Bose systems and less expensive White Van Select surround systems?

They better throw in some Denon Link cables damnit!

 

[MidnightSensi]

Did you just do an 80?

Haha nah I don't mess with smack. Spliff is all you need.

Placebo effect is real for sure, but, only to a point. Like, when they apply the three-phase power to these people they'll probably need more than a sugar pill haha.

 

[sploo]

Haha nah I don't mess with smack. Spliff is all you need.

*LOL* Now that's a DBT I'd like to see.

"Well, here we have two guys, and one of them is going to be smoking a 'Bob Marley Special' consisting of an eighth of finest Jamaican Skunk Weed.

The other is going to get a 20 skinner that's just got some pipe tobacco and licorice.

Join us later when we find out which guy needs Twinkies!"


On a serious note, there is something in this; the book "Watching the English" by Kate Fox notes the social ineptitude of the English, and the fact they need alcohol as a social lubricant.

However, if given an 'alcoholic' placebo, test subjects became 'drunk' and loosened up, despite not actually having any alcohol in their bloodstreams.

 

[haraldo]

*LOL*
However, if given an 'alcoholic' placebo, test subjects became 'drunk' and loosened up, despite not actually having any alcohol in their bloodstreams.

LOL I have seen that myself, a guy getting quite drunk drinking water, thinking it was vodka, but he got sober very quickly... when he realized it was water...

We got
While he got

 

[MidnightSensi]

Same idea that a contact high isn't possible, yet people say they are a bit high when someone is smoking around them. It's just the mellowness of the situation and the sweet smelling air a maybe a bit of relaxing music.

With alcohol, the situation is lively and sloppy so they become lively and sloppy. Also when "drinking with the guys" people tend to pretend to be a bit more drunk than they really are. Alcohol kind of brings out the inner wanker.

The mind is the idea behind tantric sex and all too.

Very powerful no doubt.

 

[sploo]

Alcohol kind of brings out the inner wanker.

*LOL* Spot on.