Onkyo 606, 706 and 806 DAC'S

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Hi there,

I would like to know from someone if the DACS are different in these three models ? I spoke to my Onkyo rep and he tells me that the 806 is not a downgrade using the Cirrus Logic DAC. It's just different. He tells me that the 806 is not a downgrade at all.

Which is interesting because the 805 uses more advanced Audessey processing and the THD is slightly less on the amp side. We all know about the lack of weight versus the 805.

But I would be interested to know if the 606, 706 and 806 models use the same Cirrus logic DAC.

Thanks.

Regards,

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.faqware.com/Receivers/Onkyo_receiver_comparison_2008.html

My gut feeling is that the SR806 is a Downgrade because the SR805 has the same Burr-Brown PCM-1796 that is in the SR876 & NR906.

I'm thinking that if it were NOT a downgrade, it would have the same Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DACs.

They also don't tell you which Cirrus Logic DACs model it is. I hate it when they do that. Are they hidding something?

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I will feel cheated and insulted if I find out that the 606 (up to the 806) use the same Cirrus Logic dac especially when I was told that the 806 was not a downgrade.

I mean, even after citing the fact that the previous model used a supposedly higher rated dac, his response is that the Cirrus Logic dac is not necessarily worse than the Burr Brown.

Which, as you alluded to earlier would make little sense in the light of using the Burr Brown dacs in the higher priced 876 and 906.

Regards,

 

[fmw]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. While the brands may be different and the code used to put together the analog waveforms may be different, DAC's are DAC's. There isn't any audible difference between them. They will restore the originally coded waveforms with virtually equal accuracy.

There are a few units that do things to the analog stage to affect sonics like insert a vacuum tube or something of that sort. However, you aren't going to get that sort of thing in a name brand, big company A/V receiver. Ignore the DAC's. Meaningless concern.

By the way, I've been doing bias controlled listening tests for over ten years and I've tested about 30 different DAC's.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will feel cheated and insulted if I find out that the 606 (up to the 806) use the same Cirrus Logic dac especially when I was told that the 806 was not a downgrade.

I mean, even after citing the fact that the previous model used a supposedly higher rated dac, his response is that the Cirrus Logic dac is not necessarily worse than the Burr Brown.

Which, as you alluded to earlier would make little sense in the light of using the Burr Brown dacs in the higher priced 876 and 906.

Regards,

Well, I believe it has been proven via double-blind testing (The Audio Critic) that amps, preamps, DACs, and CD players sound pretty much similar these days.

Certain DACs will have better specs, but it doesn't automatically mean that they will sound better.

Although I believe Onkyo did "downgrade" the DACs on the 806 (specs), I don't think it will sound any differently.

My guess is, the 806 may have this Cirrus Logic DAC:
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4364_F1.pdf

THD is -88dB, which is 0.004%.

The SR805 has the Burr-Brown PCM1796, which has THD of 0.0005%.

So technically, yeah, if the SR806 has the Cirrus CS4364, it would be a technical spec "downgrade".

But would any of us hear a difference between a THD of 0.0005% and 0.004%?

No.

 

[PENG]

Down grade or not, the 606 sounds fantastic and I will bet money on it that one cannot tell the difference between it and something like a Denon 3808, Yamaha 3800 or Onkyo 905 as long as the speakers are not too hard to drive and in a small to medium size (say <15X20x9) room.

Still, I will not recommend the 606 to anyone who has the potential to become an audioholic, only because it does not have preouts.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Thanks for the comments guys. I currently have a Jamo concert 803 HT system and I want to upgrade my receiver. The Onkyo 805 was the model I really wanted to go for but by the time I wanted to it was out of stock. Now the replacement 806 is out and I'm not 100% sure if it is worthwhile.

I mean, what about current delivery on these two amps ? The 806 has apparently dropped the toroidal transformer. So power-wise, it isn't similar, right ?

Regards,

 

[fmw]

I mean, what about current delivery on these two amps ? The 806 has apparently dropped the toroidal transformer. So power-wise, it isn't similar, right ?

Regards,

Not necessarily. Toroidal transformers are more efficient and lighter (and more expensive) but they don't deliver more current by definition. Current delivery would depend on the design of the particular transformer and other elements of the power supply and amplifiers.

 

[guitarplyrstevo]

The 806 has apparently dropped the toroidal transformer. So power-wise, it isn't similar, right ?

The 805 had a toroidal transformer? I thought this was only available in the 905/906 models?

 

[eddie]

The 805 had a toroidal transformer? I thought this was only available in the 905/906 models?

You are correct, the 905/906 were the only ones that had it.

 

[PENG]

Not necessarily. Toroidal transformers are more efficient and lighter (and more expensive) but they don't deliver more current by definition. Current delivery would depend on the design of the particular transformer and other elements of the power supply and amplifiers.

Very true, high quality transformers tend to offer lower core losses and copper losses (hence higher efficiency) and will have better overload capability. That is a far cry from having "more current delivery". Electrically speaking, toroidal or not, difference in efficiency is relatively minute. You are talking about may be a couple of percentage. The fact is, unlike motors and amplifiers, transformers typically offers very high efficiency (>95%) already.

 

[Biggiesized]

I wouldn't have minded if Onkyo dropped the PCM1796 as much if they used Cirrus Logic CS4398 DACs. They were definitely looking to cut costs and boost margins this year.

 

[PENG]

I wouldn't have minded if Onkyo dropped the PCM1796 as much if they used Cirrus Logic CS4398 DACs. They were definitely looking to cut costs and boost margins this year.

May be they know most people who buy a $500 receiver would not worry about the sound difference that they are highly unlikely to hear with their systems.

 

[Biggiesized]

May be they know most people who buy a $500 receiver would not worry about the sound difference that they are highly unlikely to hear with their systems.

The 806 is a lot more than $500.

 

[Seth=L]

I will feel cheated and insulted if I find out that the 606 (up to the 806) use the same Cirrus Logic dac especially when I was told that the 806 was not a downgrade.

I mean, even after citing the fact that the previous model used a supposedly higher rated dac, his response is that the Cirrus Logic dac is not necessarily worse than the Burr Brown.

Which, as you alluded to earlier would make little sense in the light of using the Burr Brown dacs in the higher priced 876 and 906.

Regards,

I feel cheated already.

 

[Gov]

Down grade or not, the 606 sounds fantastic and I will bet money on it that one cannot tell the difference between it and something like a Denon 3808, Yamaha 3800 or Onkyo 905 as long as the speakers are not too hard to drive and in a small to medium size (say <15X20x9) room.

Still, I will not recommend the 606 to anyone who has the potential to become an audioholic, only because it does not have preouts.

Would you recommend the 805?

 

[PENG]

Would you recommend the 805?

If you can get it for less than $600, yes.

 

[PENG]

The 806 is a lot more than $500.

Sorry I thought we were talking about the 606, my mistake.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wouldn't have minded if Onkyo dropped the PCM1796 as much if they used Cirrus Logic CS4398 DACs. They were definitely looking to cut costs and boost margins this year.

Burr-Brown DACs: PCM1796 (THD 0.0005%, SNR 120dB, Crosstalk -119dB).

Flagship Cirrus Logic DACs: CS4398 (THD 0.0005%, SNR 120dB).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Would you recommend the 805?

Here, better grab one fast before they go out of stock AGAIN:

http://www.ecost.com/Detail/Receivers/Onkyo/TXSR805+REF/40650016.aspx?navid=155438257