GIK 244 placements???

[Stripes]

Hey guys, here are some shots around my room. You can see that I have my tri traps in place but the 244's arent up yet. Im unsure how I would like to place them. There are 4 244's in total, if you were to put them up where would you place them if this were your room.

 

[jostenmeat]

First of all, I think the best tweak you can make is scooting the couch up forward. It will help both video immersion and audio. Your head so close to that back wall will make for boomy bass most likely, and the reflection of that back wall is so quick to arrive, that you cannot distinguish it from the audio coming directly from the speakers. This makes for smearing, rather than ambience.

You can balance the two things as far as video and audio, and perhaps come up with the perfect compromise. AFTER you do that, put up the treatments. (Otherwise, the 1st reflections will be at different spots).

Examples for video, with a 42" 16:9 TV:

SMPTE recommended 30 degree viewing angle = 5.7 ft viewing distance
THX recommended 36 deg viewing angle = 4.7 ft viewing distance
I use 42 deg = 4 ft viewing distance.

Its true, when you are that close, 5.7-4 ft, just how far reclined you are into the couch might dramatically change the viewing angle.

To boot, for audio listener placement, 38% of the room length for your ears is the de facto standard. Slight variation depending on the room. Alrighty . . .

First reflection point on each sidewall, I think in this case, vertically.
First reflection point on ceiling, with it arranged left/right for two viewers, rather than front/back.

Last remaining goes directly behind on you back wall, first reflection there. However, if one side sounded heavier or imbalanced, I might use this 4th treatment on that particular wall.

That's my 2 cents, and hope this helps.

jostenmeat

edit: if you ever get another set of four, I guess I would be looking at all 4 ceiling + side/front/back walls with treatments straddling 45 deg, midway. Id also probably have gone all white in this case to keep a consistent color all around. Then again, Im used to PJs where this is a much more important consideration . . .

 

[Stripes]

Examples for video, with a 42" 16:9 TV:

SMPTE recommended 30 degree viewing angle = 5.7 ft viewing distance
THX recommended 36 deg viewing angle = 4.7 ft viewing distance
I use 42 deg = 4 ft viewing distance.

Wow! I never would have thought that you can sit that close to your tv. Im a little confused about the degree position you are talking about or even how to achive a 42 deg pos. But you are saying that the TV is only 4ft from your eyes? That seems so close, I'll bring my couch up. So to make things simple if I take a tape measure and mesure from the TV stand to the front of the couch about how many feet will it be between the two? It seems that I will be so close that my feet will be hitting the center channel that is on a stand right in front of the TV stand.

 

[jostenmeat]

Wow! I never would have thought that you can sit that close to your tv. Im a little confused about the degree position you are talking about or even how to achive a 42 deg pos. But you are saying that the TV is only 4ft from your eyes? That seems so close, I'll bring my couch up. So to make things simple if I take a tape measure and mesure from the TV stand to the front of the couch about how many feet will it be between the two? It seems that I will be so close that my feet will be hitting the center channel that is on a stand right in front of the TV stand.

I was just trying to get you to think about moving up the couch. Doesn't have to be that close, but Im pretty sure it will look a lot better and more immersive if you do. Heck, think audio-first if you will. What is the room length? Multiply that by 0.38, and measure your ears to that point. Have a friend sit in the couch so that you can more accurately measure. Even if that's not 4 ft close, it still will be a lot closer.

The whole point is that by moving closer, you are killing two birds with one stone. And this best tweak of all atm costs you not a single dime.

This is what I use to calculate viewing angle. I myself am about 15 ft from a 159" screen. However, I don't have TV programming, and by far and away most of my movies are with aspects smaller than 16:9. Part of the reason I get away with this.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

when .38 room length, do it from either back or front wall . . . btw . . .

 

[Stripes]

I was just trying to get you to think about moving up the couch. Doesn't have to be that close, but Im pretty sure it will look a lot better and more immersive if you do. Heck, think audio-first if you will. What is the room length? Multiply that by 0.38, and measure your ears to that point. Have a friend sit in the couch so that you can more accurately measure. Even if that's not 4 ft close, it still will be a lot closer.

The whole point is that by moving closer, you are killing two birds with one stone. And this best tweak of all atm costs you not a single dime.

This is what I use to calculate viewing angle. I myself am about 15 ft from a 159" screen. However, I don't have TV programming, and by far and away most of my movies are with aspects smaller than 16:9. Part of the reason I get away with this.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

when .38 room length, do it from either back or front wall . . . btw . . .

You sir are the man, thank you for your help! Your advice is going to help me out tremendously with my project.

Now since we are on the subject where would you place your (I mean my) ULS-15? Room is 10'w 11'L and 8'h

 

[jostenmeat]

You sir are the man, thank you for your help! Your advice is going to help me out tremendously with my project.

*blushes*

I'm just one guy. There are plenty of others very qualified as well!

Ok. Well, a better way is to play music, and A/B compare treatment placements I suppose. Time consuming. Just treating 1st reflections is pretty easy, and usually very beneficial anyhow.

Even better would be to take measurements of the room, and then compare those to more measurements with particular number and/or placements of treatments. Yep, very involved. Did I do that? Nope. Just an FYI I suppose. Do you have a laptop? If you want to get your hands dirty, you can DL REW.

Now since we are on the subject where would you place your (I mean my) ULS-15? Room is 10'w 11'L and 8'h

I would crawl for bass. Put the sub at the listening position, after you decide where that is, and start crawling around! Make sure to calibrate phase, sometimes a test disc can help, although Im sure its not the most accurate method. Audyssey, etc, as well.

If you have a few spots that work equally, and one of them is up front, that definitely gets my vote. Less chance of localization for sure, and that always opens up the option of adding shelving filters as mike c the sub-nut did. (Boosts upper bass from the subs, that most any speakers have such a hard time dealing with).

Cheers.

 

[mike c]

exactly where you have them right now IMO.

one horizontally placed up front behind the tv (centered in between the two tritraps)
one on each first reflection point. x 2 (L and R)
one vertical behind your couch.

 

[Stripes]

exactly where you have them right now IMO.

one horizontally placed up front behind the tv (centered in between the two tritraps)
one on each first reflection point. x 2 (L and R)
one vertical behind your couch.

Honestly Mike thats where I wanted to put them. I was hoping that some one would suggest that. I really didnt like the idea of putting them horizontal in the middle of room where the wall and ceiling intersect. I'm sure that would be the best place but I really just wouldnt like the way that would look. Im going to get another set of tri-traps to stack in the front. And one more set of 244's to hang on the ceiling and I think I will be done after that. I think I will put my sub about a 1/4 of the way down from the front wall and I should be good to go after that. I'll keep my fingers crossed

 

[mike c]

consider the thickness of the 244 when you place it on the ceiling

i went with 242's for my ceiling.

 

[trilogy]

If you are putting them in the corners at the ceiling where two walls intersect, I would recommend placing some more tri-traps instead of 244's. The 244's would be more practical on the back center wall with the ones in the corners that are there. Hung horizontally right next to eachother. What really catches my attention when looking at the photo is the front wall. I think I would move that 244 out from under the display and put that at your first reflection point on the ceiling. I would leave the other 244's where they are on the side walls but hang them up a little closer to the speakers. Then I would place some 242's behind the left and right speakers. I would try placing them in areas by means of some support such as books to raise them up. GIK 244's can actually stack quite nicely without needing to hang them. Then I would see how it sounds, and what areas need adjusting. The REW measurements would also help get a smoother response, and more even decay time by trial and error.

 

[Stripes]

If you are putting them in the corners at the ceiling where two walls intersect, I would recommend placing some more tri-traps instead of 244's. The 244's would be more practical on the back center wall with the ones in the corners that are there. Hung horizontally right next to eachother. What really catches my attention when looking at the photo is the front wall. I think I would move that 244 out from under the display and put that at your first reflection point on the ceiling. I would leave the other 244's where they are on the side walls but hang them up a little closer to the speakers. Then I would place some 242's behind the left and right speakers. I would try placing them in areas by means of some support such as books to raise them up. GIK 244's can actually stack quite nicely without needing to hang them. Then I would see how it sounds, and what areas need adjusting. The REW measurements would also help get a smoother response, and more even decay time by trial and error.

Yes I agree about the tri-traps instead of 244's in the corners what I ment was the 244's actually in the middle of the back/front wall horizontal with the wall/ceiling intersection as if they were pointed at me. With the side 244's Im going to get a mirror and have someone move it around the wall with me in my listening position until I spot the reflection points. As for the center 244 on the front wall, Im not sure where it would serve the best purpose: if that would be on the center/front/wall above the tv, or on the ceiling above me, or middle/front wall/ceiling intersection horizontally placed.

 

[jostenmeat]

With the side 244's Im going to get a mirror and have someone move it around the wall with me in my listening position until I spot the reflection points. As for the center 244 on the front wall, Im not sure where it would serve the best purpose: if that would be on the center/front/wall above the tv, or on the ceiling above me, or middle/front wall/ceiling intersection horizontally placed.

OK, this portion has 3 trap-placements considered. Am I missing where you are thinking about the fourth?

OK. Time to experiment. Get it all arranged, the listener position, speaker position, and wait for the sub to arrive.

If you feel you have bass issues, even with the tritraps, then I vote for boundary meetings with gap for more bass trapping. Perhaps. Then experiment with what mike has said, and see if you can prop a 244 horizontal on a chair, anything, stool, something behind the tv. See how much, if at all, it clears up imaging and reduces smearing. I know with my stereo, it was HUGE there, but that's because they are dipoles.

FWIW, the smaller the room, the more bass trapping would be a priority. HTH. And at this point, not only are we somewhat guessing with a bit of experience under the belt, but it has to please you.

-jostenmeat

 

[EJ1]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the panels and tri traps (before and after). Were they worthwile? On a side note, nice Eras!

 

[Stripes]

Ok, I moved my couch up I now have about 3ft in back of me and my LCD is about 5ft in front of me. L R C channels are 6ft from my ears, as are my surrounds being 2ft higher than ear level.

Here is my plan for the 244's

1. number one 244 about middle of back wall(vertical)
2. numbers 2&3 side walls at first reflection points(vertical)
3. number 4 front wall middle of room wall/ceiling intersection(horizontal)

Add on's: 3 more Tri-traps, 2 to stack on fronts and 1 for back left corner.
2, 242's for ceiling application above my listening position

Im guessing for the sub: along the back wall about 2ft away from the corner, if bass sounds localized then I will try to move to the front of room. Its very cramped in here so it will be a difficult task.

 

[mike c]

i think 242's are sold in threes but go ahead and use all three on your ceiling, align them for each of the LCR's

here's what i did to my ceiling using 242's
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=406712&postcount=247

 

[bpape]

I'd suggest 2 244 panels behind you and use 242's on the side wall for reflections. You might also try, as a test, a 244 laying on it's side behind the seating leaned against the wall to straddle the wall/floor intersection.

Bryan

 

[Stripes]

I'd suggest 2 244 panels behind you and use 242's on the side wall for reflections. You might also try, as a test, a 244 laying on it's side behind the seating leaned against the wall to straddle the wall/floor intersection.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan, I guess I need to get my priorities straight and trap the bass first and worry about reflections after. I'll try to go ahead and put 2 on the back wall 1 in the wall/ceiling and one underneath of it. I'll just go ahead and mirror that in the front of the room as well. I'll get the rest of the treatments when my budget permits.

 

[jostenmeat]

I'll get the rest of the treatments when my budget permits.

Its precisely because you are on a budget that I think it might be prudent to actually experiment with various placements, as I've advised you already.

Wouldn't you want the best application of your significant purchase during the meanwhile? Of course you do, its a rhetorical question. I think it would not take more than an hour or two to find favorable positionings of your current set. And it might be fun to boot! Ya never know.

 

[bpape]

I would agree to play with what you currently have in different places to see what different things do, what you like, what seems to make more difference to you, etc. I was merely suggesting the appropriate treatment for the appropriate place in the room and what I personally thought would make the largest difference.

Bryan

 

[Stripes]

Its precisely because you are on a budget that I think it might be prudent to actually experiment with various placements, as I've advised you already.

Wouldn't you want the best application of your significant purchase during the meanwhile? Of course you do, its a rhetorical question. I think it would not take more than an hour or two to find favorable positionings of your current set. And it might be fun to boot! Ya never know.

I would agree to play with what you currently have in different places to see what different things do, what you like, what seems to make more difference to you, etc. I was merely suggesting the appropriate treatment for the appropriate place in the room and what I personally thought would make the largest difference.

Bryan

All right guys, I put up the panels, both sets middle of room with one in each ceiling/wall corner and the other right underneath of it. The sound of the bass in the room has completely changed. Bass feels so much tighter and alot quicker, it used to have such a boomyness now its nice and mellow. Im super happy with the results.

I'll be ordering another set of tri-traps and a set of 242's here in the next month. Thanks for the help everyone