car audio. Sorry I know this isnt a car audio site

[GlocksRock]

I know what you mean, doing home theater stuff is much easier (usually) than doing car audio work.

 

[annunaki]

At least leave the stock rears for some fill.

BOOOOO! Rear fill from crappy speakers is BAD!

I vote no rear fill! I have done that in all of my vehicles (no rear fill that is).

 

[annunaki]

The nicest headunit I have seen lately from anyone is the Clarion DRZ9255

It is simplistic and to the point, no bs.

 

[ErinH]

BOOOOO! Rear fill from crappy speakers is BAD!

I vote no rear fill! I have done that in all of my vehicles (no rear fill that is).

Thank you for agreeing with me.

The nicest headunit I have seen lately from anyone is the Clarion DRZ9255

It is simplistic and to the point, no bs.

For a simple drop in, yes, that's a great choice. Though it does have a 'brain' so you'd have to locate that elsewhere.

The pioneer 800prs/880prs is a great h/u as well. The alpine 7998/9815/9835/9855/9887 are also great choices for 2-way active up front.

 

[speakerman39]

The nicest headunit I have seen lately from anyone is the Clarion DRZ9255

It is simplistic and to the point, no bs.

Yeah, that is one nice piece of gear. One of my former installers has one. However, dealer cost is outrageous and so is the MAP price. In today's economy, I do well to sell $200 cd players. People just simply don't have the money for it. The same holds true with amps and subs. It is easy to see why I am so burned-out.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[ErinH]

^ nice sig (UK).

 

[dem beats]

Thank you for agreeing with me.



For a simple drop in, yes, that's a great choice. Though it does have a 'brain' so you'd have to locate that elsewhere.

The pioneer 800prs/880prs is a great h/u as well. The alpine 7998/9815/9835/9855/9887 are also great choices for 2-way active up front.

To repeate erin and confirm..

I will say the 880 is one of the best HU's I have ever had. And I like the menus much more than alpine. It also looks classy and not all technofangled. Classic style IMHO

secondly, I would go 2 way active for the front speakers. Please... no rear fill...

For sub work are you going for higher SQ or higher SPL?

 

[dem beats]

I love those zapco amps Erin.

 

[ErinH]

I love those zapco amps Erin.

I don't have Zapco amps. They're all Alpine PDX.

Zapco's are nice but they're too large for the install I wanted to do.

 

[GlocksRock]

I have rear fill in my civic, but they are the same JL speakers that are up front, they are just coaxials instead of components. The only reason I put them in to begin with, is because I had them in my old Trans Am, and I paid a lot of money for them, so I wanted to use them. Besides it doesn't hurt, and if people are riding in the back seat, they will have some sound back there.

 

[ErinH]

Besides it doesn't hurt, and if people are riding in the back seat, they will have some sound back there.

It does hurt your staging up front. Drastically. It pulls everything back behind you. Not to mention that the speakers are firing completely off axis into the back glass and causing all sorts of reflection issues.

If you don’t care about imaging/staging then enjoy the rear fill. If you do, you need to drop it. I know of about 2 cars with rear fill properly implemented. Short of having a carPC you won’t have the DSP to make use of them in the proper way. While I’m at it, 4-channel stereo isn’t surroud sound; just wanted to point that out… I see that excuse used a lot.

My passengers have no problems whatsoever with hearing my music. But, I personally like to talk to my passengers so the music is either off or turned down very low.

 

[GlocksRock]

It only drastically pulls everything back behind you if you have them turned up too loud.

 

[ErinH]

It only drastically pulls everything back behind you if you have them turned up too loud.

I wholeheartedly disagree. But, that's your choice. So do as you wish.

 

[GlocksRock]

why can't I make the argument then that having speakers in the front drastically pulls the sound in front of you?

 

[ErinH]

why can't I make the argument then that having speakers in the front drastically pulls the sound in front of you?

By all means, feel free. You’ll just prove my point for me…


A proper soundstage is supposed to imitate the music playing in front of you (ie: live show). Music in front. Unless, of course, you go to a concert and face the back row.

 

[zumbo]

The concerts I have been to over the past twenty years have had speakers in the rear as well. Even outdoor events.

 

[ErinH]

The concerts I have been to over the past twenty years have had speakers in the rear as well. Even outdoor events.

I've been to a few that do that, too. But, were the artists behind you?

My main point was that the performer is in front of you. You want to emulate that. You never go see a performer and turn your back to them. In addition, when you start throwing speakers everywhere that aren’t setup for that kind of playback you’re seriously messing things up.

How many of you have a 5.1 setup where the (main) dialogue comes from the rear?... See my point? You know that surround is for effect/ambience.


You guys can argue with me all you want about this. I’m not saying you’re wrong. But I bet if you heard a car setup with proper front stage you would see the point I’m trying to make.

I’m not going to keep arguing this as it’s tiring. I’ve been arguing the same thing with people of all ages for a very long time. Until you hear it, you’ll not understand.

 

[GlocksRock]

By all means, feel free. You’ll just prove my point for me…

Then by having speakers in the front and the rear, the sound should be drawn to the middle, which is pretty much where I am sitting... sounds pretty ideal to me. As long as the gains are properly adjusted, I don't see how it hurts.

 

[ErinH]

Then by having speakers in the front and the rear, the sound should be drawn to the middle, which is pretty much where I am sitting... sounds pretty ideal to me. As long as the gains are properly adjusted, I don't see how it hurts.

You don't really want the sound in the middle. Then in order for it to be truly centered in front of you (as if you were in the 'audience') you'd have to turn to the side to 'see' the band.
It's the same issue as I said above. You don't go to your local concert hall, or watch a band play and then turn sideways. You want them to be in the center of you. That's why folks who are into sound quality focus their efforts on their front stage.


I understand why you guys are having trouble with this. I was in the same boat. I implore you to get to a local event and check out the SQ competitions. There's SC's state finals October 4th. I'm not sure if that's close to you at all. But if it is, I suggest you check it out.
http://mecacaraudio.com/eventtable.aspx



And I truly mean this without offense, but I can guarantee you without hearing your car that it doesn't image well at all, nor does it center. I know that sounds like I'm being a jerk but I'm not trying to be. Just being honest. It doesn't matter how you adjust your gains, you've still got sound coming from behind you and it's not focused anyway; it's just bouncing off the rear glass. You probably have some serious phasing issues to boot.

 

[zumbo]

I’m not going to keep arguing this as it’s tiring. I’ve been arguing the same thing with people of all ages for a very long time. Until you hear it, you’ll not understand.

Well, I have been out of car audio for quiet some time now, but I will let you in on what my last system was.

Alpine HU
MB Quart 6.5", 4", and 1" separates up front. Linear Power 1502IQ amp.
MB Quart 4", and 1" separates in rear. Linear Power 952IQ amp.
Kicker Solo Baric (12" round) in sealed custom MDF box. Linear Power 2202IQ amp.(modified)
Audio Control ESP2 spatial separation for the front speakers.
Audio Control Epicenter for the sub.

This was a sound quality system, not a sound pressure system. So, I am pretty sure I understand.

I currently have all equipment(stored), except for the LP 1502 which I just sold on Craigslist. I also have a stock LP 2202 which was used in a system prior to the one mentioned above.