car audio. Sorry I know this isnt a car audio site

[GlocksRock]

I think I may have finally over did it a bit, and I believe I blew the woofer in my left front door. So I think what I will ultimately end up doing since I don't want another set of JL Audio XR series components, is take out the coaxials from the rear deck, since they won't match the sound of whatever I end up using up front and get some nice new components for the front stage. I'm hoping that the bass will sound a tad bit better in the cabin since there will be open holes in the rear deck too, but who knows. Had I known this was going to happen, I wouldn't have gotten a new 4 channel amp, but I think I will just bridge it so I can have around 150 watts RMS to each side up front, and get some comps that can handle that. I've been doing some research and I have found that quite a few people like the Image Dynamics ctx65cs set. The timing on this wasn't great since I spent a lot of money already and can't afford to cough up another $300-$400 on some really good components, so I'll have to find some that offer great bang for the buck, and have soft dome tweets this time, which the ID's look like they are right up my alley. I could just wait till I have more money to spend, but I don't think I can stand listening to that woofer much longer, especially since it's right in the driver side door. Also, what is they best way of going about sealing up my doors so I can get the most midbass out of the new speakers?

 

[zumbo]

I wouldn't bridge on high-end. Only on subs.

 

[GlocksRock]

why is that? If it can handle the power, I don't see the harm in it... bridge channels 1 & 2 for the left side, and bridge channels 3 & 4 for the right side, and the amp still sees a 4 ohm load.

 

[zumbo]

why is that? If it can handle the power, I don't see the harm in it... bridge channels 1 & 2 for the left side, and bridge channels 3 & 4 for the right side, and the amp still sees a 4 ohm load.

When you bridge, the amp attempts to double everything. While some amps struggle more than others doing this, none of them struggle with the doubling of distortion. And, the more the amp struggles(available power from the cars charging system, build quality of the amp), the more distortion it produces. This is not a problem for subs. It is a problem for small transducers .

It will work fine, and the human ear will probably not even notice the distortion. But, the speakers will receive it.

 

[zumbo]

Also, this increased draw on the cars charging system will reduce the power available for the amp/amps powering the subs. And, as the sub amp/amps struggle, you can just imagine how this will add to the problem for the amp running the high-end.

 

[ErinH]

Zombo, I agree with the what you've said about doubling everything. But, I still see no reason why you shouldn't bridge an amp. The distortion that would kill your speakers is due to clipping. When you bridge you're getting more power, lessening the likelihood of people clipping their amps (ie: turning it up higher than need be to get the power they want). IMO, bridging is typically safer on speakers due to increased headroom which comes in handy for dynamic music.

 

[GlocksRock]

I just added a brand new Optima yellow top battery, and I still don't have any dimming problems with my headlights, so I don't forsee bridging the amp to cause any more strain on my electrical system, as the amp isn't going to be putting out much more power in 2 channels than it already is in 4.

 

[annunaki]

I think I may have finally over did it a bit, and I believe I blew the woofer in my left front door. So I think what I will ultimately end up doing since I don't want another set of JL Audio XR series components, is take out the coaxials from the rear deck, since they won't match the sound of whatever I end up using up front and get some nice new components for the front stage. I'm hoping that the bass will sound a tad bit better in the cabin since there will be open holes in the rear deck too, but who knows. Had I known this was going to happen, I wouldn't have gotten a new 4 channel amp, but I think I will just bridge it so I can have around 150 watts RMS to each side up front, and get some comps that can handle that. I've been doing some research and I have found that quite a few people like the Image Dynamics ctx65cs set. The timing on this wasn't great since I spent a lot of money already and can't afford to cough up another $300-$400 on some really good components, so I'll have to find some that offer great bang for the buck, and have soft dome tweets this time, which the ID's look like they are right up my alley. I could just wait till I have more money to spend, but I don't think I can stand listening to that woofer much longer, especially since it's right in the driver side door. Also, what is they best way of going about sealing up my doors so I can get the most midbass out of the new speakers?

I have my Alpine SPX-F17t Three-ways for sale on craigslist

That amount of power would be perfect.

PM me if you are interested.

Seal up the doors with dynamat or "peel & seal". Make sure to use a heat gun for application. Making a seperate sealed enclosure (fiberglass/mdf) inside the door cavity is best though.

 

[annunaki]

Zombo, I agree with the what you've said about doubling everything. But, I still see no reason why you shouldn't bridge an amp. The distortion that would kill your speakers is due to clipping. When you bridge you're getting more power, lessening the likelihood of people clipping their amps (ie: turning it up higher than need be to get the power they want). IMO, bridging is typically safer on speakers due to increased headroom which comes in handy for dynamic music.

Eric is correct here. Bridging will not degrade the sound in anyway. It will also be a non-issue as far as current draw is concerned.

 

[GlocksRock]

I've ordered a set of Hertz HSK-165 components, so hopefully I will be very happy with them. I will see how they sound first, then add more deadening later if need be.

 

[zumbo]

Eric is correct here. Bridging will not degrade the sound in anyway. It will also be a non-issue as far as current draw is concerned.

I did state that the human ear would probably not detect. The speaker will. However, it does pull more off of the electrical system of the car. If it didn't, then there would be no need to bridge. May be a small amount more due to running high-end, but more. Hey, it's someone else's system, so it really doesn't concern me.

I wouldn't run mine that way. 'Tis all I was meaning to say. I am not a fan of four-channel car audio amps anyway. So, what ever will be, will be.

There is one thing for certain when asking more than one person for help, you get more than one opinion.

The most important thing in car audio is being sure the cars electrical system can handle the complete load. Replacing the current battery with an Optima battery is far from what it takes to provide good power to a system. In this type of situation, I am standing firm to my recommendation.

Just for the sake of this thread, annunaki is far more educated in audio than I am. So I am not here to battle, just give to my opinion. And in this situation, as I stated, it's firm.

 

[ErinH]

Replacing the current battery with an Optima battery is far from what it takes to provide good power to a system.

Depends on the system, though. A lot of basic 2-way up front systems will be fine off stock electrical. Some won't... but most would.

I upgraded the "big 3" wiring under the hood and replaced the stock battery. But, I'm also running 3 amps with about 2200w rms on tap (never use all of it, though) pushing a 3-way set up front and 2 subs IB'd. My stock honda civic alternator is holding up just fine after 2 years. Beyond that, Honda's got a weird thing with their electronic load detector and I've been told by a few who have gone the HO alt route that it gives them all kinds of issues. :/

So, again, not arguing... just disagreeing. In some systems a battery replacement is all that's needed. But, IMO, there's far more cost value in replacing the battery's stock ground with a much larger gauge than factory. It somewhat defeats the purpose of running 4 gauge power wire when your entire car is grounded via 10 gauge.

 

[zumbo]

I usually did one of two things about the battery. I used a Stinger relay between two batteries under the hood, or a Stinger relay with the extra battery (sealed Optima) inside the vehicle. I always had my systems running off of their own battery, and I never touched the stock alternator. Farad capacitors as needed. The caps came onto the scene right at the end of my journey.

http://www.stingerelectronics.com/productDetails.aspx?delineate=735&CategoryID=12&ParentID=1

 

[GlocksRock]

I've never had any issues that I know of with my electrical system, and the battery didn't need replacing yet, but it was the original battery that came with the car back in 2002, so I figured it definitely can't hurt to replace it. But I figure ~1500 watts RMS off my stock electrical system is fine, especially when I'm not driving around all day blasting my system at full volume.

I didn't plan on having to replace my door speakers, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten a 4 channel amp, but since I have it, I might as well not waste the other 2 channels, besides I figure I'll see how much better it sounds having good components up front only and giving them plenty of power.

 

[annunaki]

I've never had any issues that I know of with my electrical system, and the battery didn't need replacing yet, but it was the original battery that came with the car back in 2002, so I figured it definitely can't hurt to replace it. But I figure ~1500 watts RMS off my stock electrical system is fine, especially when I'm not driving around all day blasting my system at full volume.

I didn't plan on having to replace my door speakers, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten a 4 channel amp, but since I have it, I might as well not waste the other 2 channels, besides I figure I'll see how much better it sounds having good components up front only and giving them plenty of power.

What about bi-amping your fronts with a full active system? use each channel for a speaker? This would sound much better anyway. I have an Alpine PXA-H400 digital crossover on craigslist that would work perfectly

1500 watts rms translates into about 120 amperes of current draw at 12.5 volts. with amplifier efficiency at say 70% that would put current draw at 156 amperes at full output. Since, at a moderate output level (95-100db), with music, one uses about 25% of that as a high conservative estimate, it puts current draw at around 39 amperes. Most stock electrical systems would have no issue with this amount of draw, especially since it is not constant.

Upgrading the main three electrical/current sections of cable (Alt. to bat.; bat. to chassis; chassis to eng. block) in the vehicle along with a high output battery addresses most current flow issues. Adding one of the large hybrid type capacitors from Stinger or Alumapro does not hurt at all either.

 

[annunaki]

I did state that the human ear would probably not detect. The speaker will. However, it does pull more off of the electrical system of the car. If it didn't, then there would be no need to bridge. May be a small amount more due to running high-end, but more. Hey, it's someone else's system, so it really doesn't concern me.

I wouldn't run mine that way. 'Tis all I was meaning to say. I am not a fan of four-channel car audio amps anyway. So, what ever will be, will be.

There is one thing for certain when asking more than one person for help, you get more than one opinion.

The most important thing in car audio is being sure the cars electrical system can handle the complete load. Replacing the current battery with an Optima battery is far from what it takes to provide good power to a system. In this type of situation, I am standing firm to my recommendation.

Just for the sake of this thread, annunaki is far more educated in audio than I am. So I am not here to battle, just give to my opinion. And in this situation, as I stated, it's firm.

Speakers don't detect anything. They simply play what is put into them. The more linear the speaker, the more you'll hear in the signal. In a car, one would never hear a difference. In an anechoic chamber, one would never hear a difference. The difference in distortion you are talking about here is so insignificant vs. the trade off in having more dynamic power available. The increased dynamic capability FAR out weighs any possible inaudible distortion increase.

 

[zumbo]

Speakers don't detect anything. They simply play what is put into them.

Different wording, but that is what I meant. They play the distortion that is sent to them, even though we can't detect it. As insignificant as it is, I just wouldn't connect mine that way. And, judging from your reply above(#55, good stuff), looks as though you have a better option as well.

 

[ErinH]

Different wording, but that is what I meant. They play the distortion that is sent to them, even though we can't detect it. As insignificant as it is, I just wouldn't connect mine that way. And, judging from your reply above(#55, good stuff), looks as though you have a better option as well.

I'm running an h701. Full 3-way fronts ran actively (midbass, midrange, tweeter). Midbasses are ran off a pdx 4.150 bridged, so each have about 400w rms on tap should they need it. This is actually more beneficial than trying to crank gains on a 200w amp for the reasons I said, and Annunaki said above.

 

[zumbo]

I'm running an h701. Full 3-way fronts ran actively (midbass, midrange, tweeter). Midbasses are ran off a pdx 4.150 bridged, so each have about 400w rms on tap should they need it. This is actually more beneficial than trying to crank gains on a 200w amp for the reasons I said, and Annunaki said above.

It's amazing how much power Alpine can get into such a small package. My Linear Power 1502 was about the same size, and it was only 75 x 2. I have to say, I skimmed the thread. I didn't realize we were talking about Alpine amps. No wonder the electrical system is ok.

Alpine amps may have come a long way since the late 80's and early 90's, but they were a joke then.

 

[ErinH]

Well, although the alpine's I'm using are class D amps, I know quite a few who use A/B and are doing fine on stock electrical. It just depends on the user, the car, and how they install it.