Brotherly advice for outdoor antenna?

[Wandering Man]

We made the switch from cable to satellite in January, not realizing we would no longer get the local stations in digital.

Corpus Christi (30 miles south of us) is notorious for pulling the plug on both cable and satellite every time negotiations time rolls around, and I'm not convinced I will get any of the local channels when the big switch to digital happens in February.

So, I'm looking at getting an outdoor antenna to recover some of the local digital channels.

What hardware will I need in addition to the antenna and a rotator box?

I noticed in the box outside there are four cables running from the dish to a splitter, then two cables exiting into the house (2 TV's). Could I add the input cable from the antenna at this junction and feed into the satellite's input cables? Or do I need to run a separate cable all the way into the house (crawling under the house, drilling new holes, etc.)?

Will it be enough to just plug into the satellite box?

Thanks for the ideas.

WM

 

[Adam]

You can combine the feeds from an antenna and the satellite dish. You'd do that with a satellite/TV antenna diplexer (like this one from Radio Shack). I believe that you need one to combine the feeds on the outside, and another one to split the feeds on the inside.

Your satellite provider may very well be willing to get you set up with those. When DirecTV was trying to get me to come back, they were willing to put up an over-the-air antenna in addition to the satellite dish, and hook them all up for me. Now, I know that's different than what they'll do for an existing customer, but it never hurts to ask.

 

[westcott]

The best advice I can give on antennas is to go to www.antennaweb.org.

You enter in your zip code and they spit back the best design for the coverage you want, either directional or some other design. They will even tell you what channels you can expect to receive with each design solution.

 

[Wandering Man]

You can combine the feeds from an antenna and the satellite dish. You'd do that with a satellite/TV antenna diplexer (like this one from Radio Shack). I believe that you need one to combine the feeds on the outside, and another one to split the feeds on the inside.

Your satellite provider may very well be willing to get you set up with those. When DirecTV was trying to get me to come back, they were willing to put up an over-the-air antenna in addition to the satellite dish, and hook them all up for me. Now, I know that's different than what they'll do for an existing customer, but it never hurts to ask.

Great. I was hoping something like that would work. Can you daisy chain these little guys? Or would I be better off getting a three-way splitter/diplexer? And is the diplexer different from what I've been calling a splitter? I've used splitters before, and they look a lot like that.

WM

 

[Wandering Man]

The best advice I can give on antennas is to go to www.antennaweb.org.

You enter in your zip code and they spit back the best design for the coverage you want, either directional or some other design. They will even tell you what channels you can expect to receive with each design solution.

Thanks,

I've been to the site, and pretty much figured out what antenna I want.

Anyone know what it means when the seller tells you the antenna is good for the "PINK" reception zone? I didn't see PINK anywhere on their color chart.

WM

 

[Adam]

Great. I was hoping something like that would work. Can you daisy chain these little guys? Or would I be better off getting a three-way splitter/diplexer? And is the diplexer different from what I've been calling a splitter? I've used splitters before, and they look a lot like that.

WM

Hey, good evening. I'm not sure about the details on those because I never got the point that I needed to use any. However, they are different from a splitter. The satellite feed and antenna feeds are different frequencies, and the diplexer combines them into one feed that goes into your house...which is then split into the separate frequencies by the diplexer on the inside. At least, that's my memory of those.

You mentioned that there were four cables coming from your satellite dish, but only two cables going inside. That could be for different reasons (I'm presuming). I'd still recommend contacting the satellite provider to see if they'd do this for free, or if they have any technical pointers.

You may also consider either posting in the thread here that is about Dish Network questions (I'm sure that general questions like yours are welcome), or just PM the creator of that thread rosco. Just know that rosco hasn't been around for about five days, so I don't know how quick you'd get a response.

Adam

 

[Wandering Man]

Adam,

I took another look, and there are four cables in from the satelite, and three coming out. One goes to the reciever in my bedroom and the other two go to the DVR, giving the DVR two separate feeds so it can record a show while I'm watching another.

Now I have a new question, as I progress in making my antenna happen:

I have one lind coming off the antenna. I will need a splitter to send a signal to both of the TV's in my house. Then I'll be putting a diplexer to combine each of the antenna feeds with two of the satellite feeds, and then another diplexer at the other end for each TV to split the signal out again.

Will I loose too much signal strength with all of this hardware?

Would I be better off just crawling under the house with the possums and running new cable, and drilling new holes?

Thanks for any and all opinions.

WM

 

[TLS Guy]

Adam,

I took another look, and there are four cables in from the satelite, and three coming out. One goes to the reciever in my bedroom and the other two go to the DVR, giving the DVR two separate feeds so it can record a show while I'm watching another.

Now I have a new question, as I progress in making my antenna happen:

I have one lind coming off the antenna. I will need a splitter to send a signal to both of the TV's in my house. Then I'll be putting a diplexer to combine each of the antenna feeds with two of the satellite feeds, and then another diplexer at the other end for each TV to split the signal out again.

Will I loose too much signal strength with all of this hardware?

Would I be better off just crawling under the house with the possums and running new cable, and drilling new holes?

Thanks for any and all opinions.

WM

If it is Direct TV you have, you can not split it. What you are looking at on your house is not a splitter, it is the grounding block.

The multi switch and and signal detectors are phantom powered form the DVRs and receivers. There is around 13 volts on one line and 18 volts on the other. DC will not pass though a splitter. You will have to take your antenna signal back to the units.

In my view Wingard antenna are head ans shoulders above everything else.

 

[bandphan]

The best advice I can give on antennas is to go to www.antennaweb.org.

You enter in your zip code and they spit back the best design for the coverage you want, either directional or some other design. They will even tell you what channels you can expect to receive with each design solution.

+1

 

[Adam]

WM, you have a good question about losing signal. I got a pre-amp/amp combination for my system (Channel Master 7777), although I haven't hooked it up because my antenna is still mounted inside. So, I can't say how well it works, but I had read good things.

Have you talked to DirecTV, yet? Not trying to push you...just asking.

If it is Direct TV you have, you can not split it.

We're talking about diplexers, TLS, not splitters.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Anyone know what it means when the seller tells you the antenna is good for the "PINK" reception zone? I didn't see PINK anywhere on their color chart.

WM

Antenna types are color coded according to the size and type of antenna needed for reception. The list is arranged in order of ease of reception, with the stations requiring the smallest multidirectional antenna at the top, to those requiring the largest directional antennas at the bottom.


Perhaps your location is good enough not to be in a fringe area or more omni directional, so no pink, most likely.
And, if that pink is for a more omni antenna, it may not pull in a weaker signal that an antenna that chart indicates would?

 

[Wandering Man]

Have you talked to DirecTV, yet? Not trying to push you...just asking.

Weeks ago I put in a request for info on adding an antenna, and got back feedback that DirecTV no longer provides that service.

Earlier today I found their forum, and was advised on using diplexers, singlewire multi switches, and a lot of info on frequencies used.

Since then, I've installed the diplexers on one line to one of the receivers. I ran the set-up, and did not get any signal from the antenna. As a bonus, the quality of the satellite feed was poor.

I unplugged the TV, ran it outside (in the rain - I'm a bit impatient), and plugged it in directly to the antenna cable. Excellent reception!

Conclusion: I need to just bite the bullet and run direct lines into the house from the antenna.

I'll be making friends with those possums next weekend!

WM

 

[Adam]

I'll be making friends with those possums next weekend!

Excellent! To help grease the skids with your underhouse neighbors, they like fruit...and bugs.

 

[jamie2112]

I hate crawling in dark wet spaces. I feel for you Wandering......You can get traps from your local county wildlife people..if needed...

 

[TLS Guy]

WM, you have a good question about losing signal. I got a pre-amp/amp combination for my system (Channel Master 7777), although I haven't hooked it up because my antenna is still mounted inside. So, I can't say how well it works, but I had read good things.

Have you talked to DirecTV, yet? Not trying to push you...just asking.



We're talking about diplexers, TLS, not splitters.

Sorry for the late response, but I have just driven back to Benedict from Eagan.

Diplexers and triplexers are just passive frequency selective splitters. They have tuned resonant circuits to direct different frequencies to different ports. They use transformers just like a splitter. A transformer will not pass DC.

The gear on the roof is phantom powered. You can not put a transformer in any phantom circuit, just like you can't use a microphone transformer in a microphone circuit phantom powered from the mix desk.

You would have to have a device that blocks the DC, impedance matches the the signal in the split, and then recombines the signal and the DC.

Also pulses are sent up the wires to change satellites, and these would have to be allowed for as well.

The other issue is that I doubt the overland digital signals and satellite signals are the same. He would have to run a wire to the antenna input anyway. So I don't see a way around having to run separate cables form Antenna to DVR and receiver. May be direct TV have a device than can be placed at grounding block, that can combine the signals, but I have not heard of it. The Direct TV system is very non resilient. Even barrel connectors cause some loss of signal strength, so they keep them to the minimum. Every receiver has to have its own line to the multiswitch and every DVR needs two. Their DVR and roof equipment blow up with power line fluctuations, and with voltage sags especially. I found out that UPS systems are mandatory, at least where I live.

The new system that gets more HD channels and local channels in HD, is very touchy. However since replacing all electronics on the roof twice and changing out the HDDVR that did not have a UPS twice, and putting a UPS on that device at the last change out, it has been smooth sailing.

My first Direct HD system was unsatisfactory, because the signal detectors kept filling up with water, as there were no seals on them!

Due to all the problems I had, and the fact that Direct TV techs seem to come with minimal equipment, I got familiar with their systems, from a technical standpoint. I had to get much more involved than I would have liked.

 

[Wandering Man]

The good news is, once I get the antenna system set up, I'll feel empowered to drop DirecTV and/or CableOne if I choose.

There seem to be more local channels than I thought.

As far as movies, I like Netflix.

I'm just not sure I can do without "The Dog Whisperer" and "Mythbusters."

WM

 

[Adam]

I hear ya. I have an over-the-air antenna, and I dropped DirecTV. I only got the national networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) over DirecTV, though, so it wasn't that big of a step for me. That, and my satellite receiver was old and kept locking up on me.

I also have Netflix. I like getting the TV series on DVD for the cable shows that I miss, in addition to movies.

 

[Wandering Man]

Excellent! To help grease the skids with your underhouse neighbors, they like fruit...and bugs.

I hate crawling in dark wet spaces. I feel for you Wandering......You can get traps from your local county wildlife people..if needed...

I usually just use dry catfood in my livetrap. I live in the middle of town, two blocks from city hall/police/fire stations, and I could trap something almost every day.

We also live close to the gulf, with plenty of good eatin' for the critters (shirmp, crabs, fish, etc.) The critters around here have adapted, finding new homes, rather then fleeing to the ranches.

When I moved into this pier and beam house I started off catching the possums and raccons (and one skunk). Then my neighbor used my trap to catch the cats who moved into the neighborhood. Then we got rats.

After catching the rats, I've been less diligent about catching the possums, coons, and cats.

I discovered there's a balance to nature, and ya gotta be careful with your pruning or you get unwanted guests.

WM

 

[Adam]

I discovered there's a balance to nature...

Yes, indeed! Btw, I was only joking about feeding them...not trapping them. Of course, you could temporarily restrain them as you put in the cable lines.

 

[Wandering Man]

Well, I've run my first line under the house, along with the electric for the antenna rotator.

I've got beautiful HD on three of the local channels and decent non-HD on the non-HD channels. I still have some tweaking to do, though.

A couple of channels I can't get at all. I need to tighten up some lines, and take another look at the antenna. I'm pretty sure I don't have the "repeater" elements on correctly.

Thanks guys.

WM