120Hz Refresh Rate Worth the Extra Bucks?

[Sparks]

I'm comparing a couple 47" Samsung models (LCD) one of which has a 60Hz refresh rate and the other with a 120Hz refresh rate for about $200 more. Is it worth the extra money for the 120Hz model? Is there a noticeable difference in picture quality?

 

[ivseenbetter]

Have you physically viewed them yet? You may want to check it out for yourself. You can usually go to one of the big-box stores and see the difference. Some folks think it is a gimmick...and others like it. There are folks here who are way smarter on this stuff than I am but my understanding is that the increased Hz creates a smoother viewing experience for some folks. I think it has something to do with eliminating the need to do a 3/2 pulldown when watching movies. I think I read once that movies played at 24Hz and TV is 60Hz so selecting 120Hz makes a direct multiple for both formats so there is less processing. The whole thing is confusing to me so take my info with a grain of salt. I am positive one of the smarter guys will come along and correct me...or clarify.

 

[dobyblue]

I'd go with one of the Samsung LED LCD models if you cannot be convinced to choose plasma over LCD, which would be less money and a better picture. There are numerous 120Hz models out there that don't even get rid of the 2/3 judder, using 3:2 pulldown to get to 60Hz then 2:2 pulldown to get to 120Hz, which pretty much defeats the purpose. All 120Hz does is try to make up for the deficiencies in LCD's response time, but it's more of a bandage than a solution.

Unless the room you're installing your television in has very bright lighting like a family room, where most viewing will be during the day, plasma provides a much more natural picture and more accurate thanks to the almost immediate response time. Nanoseconds vs. milliseconds.

Where most LCD's can only resolve 600/1080 lines where they're lucky, all the current plasma models from Panasonic and Pioneer resolve no less than 900/1080 lines.

Here's some good reading for you, this is Home Theater Mag's last HDTV shoot-out in 2008, between LCoS, Rear Projection, LCD, LED and plasma. The winners were the two plasma models without a doubt amongst the panelists.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/


...and in case you're worried about burn in, if you don't have any on your CRT then you won't get any on your plasma.

 

[darien87]

DEFINITELY check it out for yourself. I bought my 60Hz TV before I had even heard of motion blur. I went back and looked at the same TV with 120Hz and I didn't like it. It makes everything look artificial, like a soap opera. Other people love it. I think it sucks.

See if you like it before you spend your money.

 

[Audioholics]

Plasma still looks great overall. 120Hz needs some work and has to be done right. This is one of my challenges for this year's CEDIA.

 

[annunaki]

I agree. 120hz is mostly hype just like 1080p in some cases. When pointed out what it does to the picture most people do not care for it. If I wanted to watch live action home movies, I would make my own.

120hz is, like stated previously, a bandage for a bigger problem, slow native response times.

Samsung's LCD's seem to be the best performers with 120hz processing turned off, though they are a good step from plasmas there.

 

[GlocksRock]

Not all 120 hz. displays are done the same, some are not native 120 hz. they do a 3:20 pulldown and double the 60 hz. picture to get 120 hz. My Sharp Aquos LCD does this and it does help with the blur, and it doesn't have that fake look that some displays have.

 

[mudrummer99]

I'll just throw this out there for this conversation. If 120Hz was as awesome as the TV companies want you to think it is, why is it an option you can turn off and on? In my considerable amount of time watching 120Hz tvs all I can really say is that except for a few specific situations (not even entire programs or movies) it actually looks worse on most tvs that the 60Hz mode. Just my 2 cents. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[GlocksRock]

Not all tv's give you the option to turn 120 hz. off... just the crappy ones lol... j/k!

 

[Warpdrv]

Plasma still looks great overall. 120Hz needs some work and has to be done right. This is one of my challenges for this year's CEDIA.

I'll say it again and again, Plasma is still the clear winner... Thanks Clint....

 

[dobyblue]

I'll say it again and again, Plasma is still the clear winner...

As it will be for quite some time to come.

LCD will never be better than plasma. OLED and LaserTV may be the next big thing, but until more companies get into it you're still looking at $2,500 for an 11" SD screen with OLED that has a 30,000 hour rating.

For $2,500 you can get a Panasonic THX-certified (color) TH-50PZ800U plasma which can display both 1080p24 (at 48Hz) and 1080p60 (60Hz).

For $2,599 you can get a Pioneer PDP-5010FD plasma right now from two or three different sites while the new model stocks up. Best blacks in the business and supports 1080p24 at 72Hz, removing some of the filmic flicker others are noticing at 48Hz.

 

[annunaki]

The new Pioneer 60 incher was just reviewed in Home Theater Magazine("G"9). They now have an infinite contrast ratio as the black level did not register on the meter it was so low.

It's low points were lack of color temperature audjustability. The Elite models will offer this though. The new Elites could, essentially, be the perfect television/display. They should be able to be calibrated to a flat 6500K color temp, with an infinite contrast ratio, and capable of absolute black.

It was still reviewed as one of the best sets ever, bar none, regardless of technology.

 

[dobyblue]

Isn't it the ELITE model they reviewed at Home Theater Mag?

http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/

 

[mudrummer99]

Isn't it the ELITE model they reviewed at Home Theater Mag?

http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/

I believe he is referring to the review of the PDP-6020FD in the Sept. 2008 issue

 

[mudrummer99]

The new Pioneer 60 incher was just reviewed in Home Theater Magazine("G"9). They now have an infinite contrast ratio as the black level did not register on the meter it was so low.

It's low points were lack of color temperature audjustability. The Elite models will offer this though. The new Elites could, essentially, be the perfect television/display. They should be able to be calibrated to a flat 6500K color temp, with an infinite contrast ratio, and capable of absolute black.

It was still reviewed as one of the best sets ever, bar none, regardless of technology.

We have one of the new Elites setup in my store now. We did a side by side with the 150 to the 151 and, even though the 150 was the best TV on the market, the 151 blew it away. It was incredible the black level difference. I never thought I would say that the 150's blacks actually looked a touch gray, but they did. I am thoroughly impressed and will be hoping for the winning lottery ticket so I can acquire a couple of the 9G Elites

Mike

 

[bandphan]

We have one of the new Elites setup in my store now. We did a side by side with the 150 to the 151 and, even though the 150 was the best TV on the market, the 151 blew it away. It was incredible the black level difference. I never thought I would say that the 150's blacks actually looked a touch gray, but they did. I am thoroughly impressed and will be hoping for the winning lottery ticket so I can acquire a couple of the 9G Elites

Mike

The new sets do measure better than the 8gs, but in no way once properly setup do the 8gs "look a touch of grey". Pioneer went from just about perfect to perfect, imo.

 

[mudrummer99]

The new sets do measure better than the 8gs, but in no way once properly setup do the 8gs "look a touch of grey". Pioneer went from just about perfect to perfect, imo.

I was referring to out of the box for both of them (our 150 never got calibrated ) But I will say the 150 out of the box is still better than any other tv that I've seen calibrated (except the 151 of course)

Mike

 

[Biggiesized]

I think the two biggest benefits of 120 Hz refresh rate are:

1) 5:5 pulldown for film based content

2) Reducing motion blur from slow panel response times

 

[dobyblue]

I think the two biggest benefits of 120 Hz refresh rate are:

1) 5:5 pulldown for film based content

2) Reducing motion blur from slow panel response times

Unfortunately 120Hz doesn't guarantee 5:5 pulldown.
Many of the 120Hz sets use 3:2, then 2:2. Defeats the purpose really.

 

[jostenmeat]

Unfortunately 120Hz doesn't guarantee 5:5 pulldown.
Many of the 120Hz sets use 3:2, then 2:2. Defeats the purpose really.

Yeah, no kidding. I did not know that... that's almost underhanded if you ask me.

any specific examples?

Reminds me of older "1080p" sets that could not accept a 1080p signal via HDMI. or something like that...