Yamaha RX-V463 Hdmi question

[Dezoris]

I noticed that the Onkyo 502 will not pass audio over HDMI you still have to use an optical cable for audio when using HDMI.

HDMI Pass Through (3in/1out , 1080P compatible) — A separate audio connection is necessary

Is the Yamaha the same way?

 

[Midcow2]

Yes on Yamaha 363

I noticed that the Onkyo 502 will not pass audio over HDMI you still have to use an optical cable for audio when using HDMI.


Is the Yamaha the same way?

Yes on the Yamaha 363 not true on all models, especially higher end.

 

[optimusprine]

The Yamaha 363 is the same but what about the 463. I would like to know too. The manual specifies that 463 uses HDMI 1.2. Maybe someone can explain what 1.2 is capable is of?

 

[Midcow2]

The Yamaha 363 is the same but what about the 463. I would like to know too. The manual specifies that 463 uses HDMI 1.2. Maybe someone can explain what 1.2 is capable is of?

Hello again Optimusprime ( I remember the transformer Optimus Prime LOL; son had it )

HDMI was is to some degree still is an evolving standard. However HDMI 1.3x has seem to become the DeFacto standard and almost all devices that say they are HDMI 1.3x ( x= blank, a, b, etc.) seem to work pretty well together.

If you go back and read the specs for HMDI 1.1 and HDMI 1.2 ,they were both supposed to handle both audio and video. But in truth, very few implementations, if any, work in passing audio.

Good Luck!

 

[Midcow2]

HDMI specs

The Yamaha 363 is the same but what about the 463. I would like to know too. The manual specifies that 463 uses HDMI 1.2. Maybe someone can explain what 1.2 is capable is of?

This was an evolving standard , don't take too literally, because not all features were implemented.

====
The following provides an overview of major functionality added to each version of HDMI:

HDMI 1.1:

Support for DVD Audio. (not true)

HDMI 1.2:

Adds features and capabilities that increase HDMI's appeal for use in both the CE and PC industries. Specifically, the features and modifications for HDMI 1.2 include: Support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital), changes to offer better support for current and future PCs with HDMI outputs, including: availability of the widely-used HDMI Type A connector for PC sources and displays with full support for PC video formats, ability for PC sources to use their native RGB color space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr CE color space, requirement for HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support future low-voltage (i.e., AC-coupled) sources, such as those based on PCI Express I/O technology.

HDMI 1.2a:

Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features and command sets and CEC compliance tests are now fully specified.
Creation of version 1.2a of the HDMI Compliance Test Specification (CTS), which includes a CEC Supplement. HDMI CTS 1.2a has been updated for technical consistency with HDMI Specification 1.2a as well as to the recently released HDMI Specification 1.2.
Significantly, CTS 1.2a contains additional cable and connector testing and Authorized Testing Center (ATC) submission requirements. Specifically, under CTS 1.2a, the Adopter shall submit for testing to the ATC any new HDMI cable whose length exceeds previously tested cables.
Additionally, HDMI Licensing, LLC will maintain a list of approved connectors. For a device to pass CTS 1.2a testing at an ATC, all connectors on such device must appear on the approved connector list. To add a connector to this list, the vendor must submit to the ATC or HDMI Licensing, LLC full and passing testing results.

HDMI 1.3:
Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.
Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 adds support for “x.v.Color™” (which is the consumer name describing the IEC 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard), which removes current color space limitations and enables the display of any color viewable by the human eye.
New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates automatic audio synching capabilities that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.
New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

 

[optimusprine]

Hello again Optimusprime ( I remember the transformer Optimus Prime LOL; son had it )

HDMI was is to some degree still is an evolving standard. However HDMI 1.3x has seem to become the DeFacto standard and almost all devices that say they are HDMI 1.3x ( x= blank, a, b, etc.) seem to work pretty well together.

If you go back and read the specs for HMDI 1.1 and HDMI 1.2 ,they were both supposed to handle both audio and video. But in truth, very few implementations, if any, work in passing audio.

Good Luck!

I had the DVD lying around and was trying to think of a nick name to register with here. Surprisingly, it wasn't taken. I remember reading an article here at audioholics about the different versions of HDMI. I actually just found it

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/understanding-difference-hdmi-versions/

I didn't have the time to read it thoroughly and I don't have any right now but from what you told me, I assume you need separate connections for audio for the Yamaha 463.

 

[Seth=L]

There is a difference between HDMI 1.3 repeating, and HDMI 1.3 pass-thru. For example. The Onkyo TX-SR575 does HDMI 1.3 pass-thru, the TX-SR605 does HDMI 1.3 repeating. The repeating architecture allows the receiver to process incoming audio signals from HDMI and possibly scaling as well as upconversion if the receiver features it.

The Yamaha RX-V463 does not process audio from HDMI. You would need the RX-V663 to handle that. I will be back later to ellaborate.

 

[optimusprine]

There is a difference between HDMI 1.3 repeating, and HDMI 1.3 pass-thru. For example. The Onkyo TX-SR575 does HDMI 1.3 pass-thru, the TX-SR605 does HDMI 1.3 repeating. The repeating architecture allows the receiver to process incoming audio signals from HDMI and possibly scaling as well as upconversion if the receiver features it.

The Yamaha RX-V463 does not process audio from HDMI. You would need the RX-V663 to handle that. I will be back later to ellaborate.

Oh, while you're elaborating later, can you also please explain what exactly the Onkyo 576 does?

 

[Midcow2]

Oh, while you're elaborating later, can you also please explain what exactly the Onkyo 576 does?

The 576 just passes through (see page 21 of manual)

You have to go to the 606 before you get repeating (see page 24 of manual)
All models 606 and above do repeating also sometimes know as upconverting.

The 606 will take composite, S-video, component or HDMI in and provide HDMI out.

 

[optimusprine]

The 576 just passes through (see page 21 of manual)

You have to go to the 606 before you get repeating (see page 24 of manual)
All models 606 and above do repeating also sometimes know as upconverting.

The 606 will take composite, S-video, component or HDMI in and provide HDMI out.

Are 1. upconverting and 2. not requiring separate connections for your speakers different things? You posted this response to my question

"If Onkyo SR576 is in your price range it is the best bet!

You can connect one HDMI cable from DVD to the Onkyo 576 AVR. Connect another HDMI cable from cable or satellite to Onkyo 576 AVR. Then connect another HDMI cable to the TV. No more cables ; just 3

Then connect your speakers to the Onkyo 576 AVR! HDMI1.3a will pass sound and audio and will not require separate RCA cables for the audio of EACH input componentVD, cable, satellite,etc."

 

[Midcow2]

More explanation

Sorry for any confusion.

They are two different things.

If you have all HDMI 1.3 device in and HDMI devices out then all you need is pass-thru and any receiver HDMI 1.3 capable will do that. This seem to satisfy your case. the 576 satisfies this.

However, if you also have older devices with component input or even composite, HDMI repeat can, upconvert these. Upconvert can actually mean two things: (1) changing resolution eg from 480 to 1080 or (2) changing format eg from component to HMDI. You might see a difference if you play SD DVDs and your DVD player did not upconvert, but most DVD players also upconvert. If you need this then 606

When you get to HDMI 1.3 with a receiver that either repeats or passes-thru you also have audio in addition to video. The audio is typically not present with HDMI 1.1 or 1.2

 

[optimusprine]

Ok, so I have a Philips DVD player that has the capability to upconvert but right now I use composite (2 audio plugs and 1 video plug) with my old CRT TV. The player also has an HDMI socket. Now, if I used HDMI to connect the player and receiver (Onkyo 576) I would only need 1 HDMI cable and everything would be fine including sound coming out of the speakers attached to the receiver, correct?
Now, I want to hook up my Wii too. I assume I can hook it up to the receiver as well. The Wii uses component cables.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10083529&catid=

With that setup I would be fine too, right? Hook up the component cables and I get video on TV and sound from the speakers hooked up to the receiver, correct? As far as I know, Wii only supports 420p or something so upconversion by the more expensive receivers shouldn't make a difference, right?

 

[Seth=L]

Sorry for any confusion.

They are two different things.

If you have all HDMI 1.3 device in and HDMI devices out then all you need is pass-thru and any receiver HDMI 1.3 capable will do that. This seem to satisfy your case. the 576 satisfies this.

However, if you also have older devices with component input or even composite, HDMI repeat can, upconvert these. Upconvert can actually mean two things: (1) changing resolution eg from 480 to 1080 or (2) changing format eg from component to HMDI. You might see a difference if you play SD DVDs and your DVD player did not upconvert, but most DVD players also upconvert. If you need this then 606

When you get to HDMI 1.3 with a receiver that either repeats or passes-thru you also have audio in addition to video. The audio is typically not present with HDMI 1.1 or 1.2

There are some either missunderstandings, or some errors here.

HDMI versions aside, strict pass-thru means the video and audio signals go "thru" the receiver without being touched. HDMI repeating architecture adds audio decoding capability as well as the possibility for enhanced video features for HDMI. Those features include "scaling" which shouldn't be confused with "upconverting". Video scaling is manipulating a video source's resolution by either increasing or decreasing it. Video "upscaling" is typically desired since most people wouldn't want to downscale for obvious reasons.

All HDMI versions since 1.0 support 1080p as well as multichannel pcm (which is every bit as good as the new Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD formats). It's more a matter of the receiver have repeating architecture than the HDMI version.

The TX-SR576 passes thru the video only, it doesn't scale or upconvert. However, it does process audio (which includes up to Dolby Digital Plus and 7.1 LPCM, which is high resolution audio derived from Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-HD from Blu-ray).

The Yamaha RX-V463 does no audio or video processing over HDMI.

You can get the RX-V663 which does all the new audio decoding as well as upconversion (upconversion is taking all video inputs and converting them to one single connection that is typically the best available on the receiver in question, in this case HDMI). It can be found for under $400 shipped online. It represents one of the most solid bargains in home theater receivers in the mid range.

 

[Midcow2]

Good reply - THANKS

There are some either missunderstandings, or some errors here.

HDMI versions aside, strict pass-thru means the video and audio signals go "thru" the receiver without being touched. HDMI repeating architecture adds audio decoding capability as well as the possibility for enhanced video features for HDMI. Those features include "scaling" which shouldn't be confused with "upconverting". Video scaling is manipulating a video source's resolution by either increasing or decreasing it. Video "upscaling" is typically desired since most people wouldn't want to downscale for obvious reasons.

All HDMI versions since 1.0 support 1080p as well as multichannel pcm (which is every bit as good as the new Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD formats). It's more a matter of the receiver have repeating architecture than the HDMI version.

The TX-SR576 passes thru the video only, it doesn't scale or upconvert. However, it does process audio (which includes up to Dolby Digital Plus and 7.1 LPCM, which is high resolution audio derived from Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-HD from Blu-ray).

The Yamaha RX-V463 does no audio or video processing over HDMI.

You can get the RX-V663 which does all the new audio decoding as well as upconversion (upconversion is taking all video inputs and converting them to one single connection that is typically the best available on the receiver in question, in this case HDMI). It can be found for under $400 shipped online. It represents one of the most solid bargains in home theater receivers in the mid range.

Seth_L thanks for your reply. I was trying to help. I think the Yamaha RX-663 or the Oknyo 606 is wHat OP really needs.

 

[Seth=L]

Ok, so I have a Philips DVD player that has the capability to upconvert but right now I use composite (2 audio plugs and 1 video plug) with my old CRT TV. The player also has an HDMI socket. Now, if I used HDMI to connect the player and receiver (Onkyo 576) I would only need 1 HDMI cable and everything would be fine including sound coming out of the speakers attached to the receiver, correct?
Now, I want to hook up my Wii too. I assume I can hook it up to the receiver as well. The Wii uses component cables.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10083529&catid=

With that setup I would be fine too, right? Hook up the component cables and I get video on TV and sound from the speakers hooked up to the receiver, correct? As far as I know, Wii only supports 420p or something so upconversion by the more expensive receivers shouldn't make a difference, right?

You should not, and most likely will not be able, to use HDMI from the DVD player when you TV is not capable of handling HDMI or DVI. You need to use coaxial or optical digital connections from your DVD player to input to the receiver for the best sound, as well as minimal cable use.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth_L thanks for your reply. I was trying to help. I think the Yamaha RX-663 or the Oknyo 606 is wHat OP really needs.

Considering he doesn't have an HDTV, I don't think he needs either one right now. He could buy one now if he plans to have an HDTV in the near future. He won't have any use for HDMI, upconverting, upscaling, or HD audio processing at this time.

I know you are trying to help, I am not intending to be rude. I am simply making sure the OP knows what he is dealing with. I hope there are no hard feelings, I have no hard feelings toward you.

 

[Dezoris]

All these answers are making this more convoluted. According to the manual of the Yamaha 463 it mentions nothing about having to run separate audio cables to get sound out of HDMI.

It notes optimal connection for DVD for example is to run one HDMI cable for video and sound.

So something is amiss.

 

[Seth=L]

All these answers are making this more convoluted. According to the manual of the Yamaha 463 it mentions nothing about having to run separate audio cables to get sound out of HDMI.

It notes optimal connection for DVD for example is to run one HDMI cable for video and sound.

So something is amiss.

That's because with the RX-V463 HDMI has nothing to do with the audio. HDMI, as a connection format, is capable of carrying audio along with video. If your receiver can't process audio from HDMI you have to get your audio from the next best thing. The RX-V463 can take in digital audio over Digital Coax or Toslink (Optical) from your DVD player to get surround sound. The regular white and red will only get you basic stereo sound. In all honesty, other than switching purposes, you have no need to connect the DVD player to the receiver's HDMI input, even if the TV does have HDMI.

 

[optimusprine]

I'm planning to get an HDTV along with the receiver and pair of speakers. Now, all this new info will take me some time to process but I would like to know if this would work.

Since we are already at the Yamaha 663 which costs almost $400, I'm willing to add that extra cable from the DVD player to the receiver for sound. Therefore, I think I will go back to the Yamaha 363. I know my DVD player has an optical port so if I connect an optical cable along with an HDMI cable from my DVD player to the receiver I will be able to get surround sound from speakers connected to the receiver (assuming I will get extra speakers in the future)? The video will pass through untouched? My DVD player also has an upconversion feature. Will I be able to use that feature if the video passes through the receiver?

Next scenario. As far as I know, the Wii only has stereo sound. I'm planning on connecting the Wii using a component video cable.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10083529&catid=

With that setup I shouldn't have any problems, right? The sound should come out of the 2 front speakers no matter how many speakers I have, correct?

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Seth=L]

Optimusprime,

I see no reason why you should even port HDMI through the receiver other than for switching purposes. This cuts down on your cable costs, and from what I am reading you only have one HDMI source. HDMI goes to the TV, Optical to the receiver.