Monitors all sound the same

[3db]

1.) I hear well enough to trust my hearing 100% and the opinions of others 0%. Since the alleged differences do not exist, I can only conclude that those who think they hear them are blinded by their own biases (based on price or brand.)
2.) Recordings sound different because they were made by different people. Everyone involved in the process, from the band to the mixing engineer, effects the final sound, and they all have their own tastes.
3.) The published specs are 45Hz-20KHz +/-3dB. (Based on my experience with them, I think that that is rather conservative, and that they actually go quite a bit lower.)

a) BS. Not all monitors have the same build quality with some cabinets imparting more vibrations and cabinet resonances and others less. which alters the sound of the speaker. Like I said, I question your hearing ability to disern differences

b) Where's this stanndard you alluded too in the other thread?

c) Manufactured published specs are suspect and incomplete at best. Independent testing done explaining test conditions and a graph are required. Why the 6db variance if monitors are ruler flat? And thats alot of variance to make speakers sound identical don't you think?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

a) I concede that differences could appear at vastly higher volume levels than I would ever seriously consider listening at. I have never turned any speakers up loud enough to excite resonant modes.

b) I was referring to the objective standard that insures all monitors output the same waveform. There is no relation between this and the personal choices producers make, except to guarantee that the particular studio is not a factor in these choices.

c) If Alesis were a commercial marketer, I might mistrust their specs. I would certainly cite an independent measurement if I knew of one.
+/- 3dB is the standard because only a significantly larger variation than that would be audible. Also, the limits are only reached at the extremes of the frequency range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think any speaker will sound exactly the same, but I think they may sound very similar. I bet if you get a bunch of $200 - $1,000 monitors, they may sound very similar. For one thing, they won't produce a lot of 20-30Hz frequencies to satisfaction.

 

[bandphan]

Joe, so the GUARNERI MEMENTO from Sonus Faber sounds the same as your Alesis Monitor Ones?

While Im a strong believer in studio monitors that are of good build and quality components, to say that they all have ruler flat response and sound the same is, i dont know, NUTS?? Would that statement cover monitors with on-board amps?

Blanket statements are part of the reason for audio myths and untruths. These statements are in no way a contribution to these forums

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe, so the GUARNERI MEMENTO from Sonus Faber sounds the same as your Alesis Monitor Ones?

I wouldn't know, since I will never be anywhere that has those (certainly nobody within 300 miles of me has them!)
I do know, however, that if they sound different then they must be doing something wrong. The sound of studio monitors is a standard, not a matter of taste like home speakers. That is the key point here: there cannot be more than one industry standard, or it is not a standard at all! (Imagine having two definitions of "one inch" that give different results, and you will see how obvious this is.)

 

[Matt34]

This is just absurd. Just because a loudspeaker is being used in a recording studio or is "classified" as a studio monitor doesn't mean it meets any standard. It is likely an assumption that the speaker used will produce a relatively flat (linear) phase and frequency responses, but again who regulates and sets this standard?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hey Matt - Moderator - can we please do something here to keep stuff under control. I came here in large part because PULLIAM is such a moron, and he does nothing but further ignorance or start fights on avsforum. Can you just ask him to stop? Please ...

 

[markw]

OK, I'll bite.

Hey Matt - Moderator - can we please do something here to keep stuff under control. I came here in large part because PULLIAM is such a moron, and he does nothing but further ignorance or start fights on avsforum. Can you just ask him to stop? Please ...

Who the he!! is Pulliam?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Who the he!! is Pulliam?

Joe Schmoe = PULLIAM (his username on avsforum), and he's an absolute virus over there exactly for reasons like this. The guys that know, KNOW just how insidious he can be.

All I'm asking, just please don't do the same thing here Joe. And if you insist on continuing, can the Mods please keep him in line?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

but again who regulates and sets this standard?

I don't know if there is any agency that does this. The end users will automatically reinforce the standard, though. A "studio monitor" that fails to deliver on the requirements of flat frequency response, extremely low distortion, lifelike dynamic range, wide dispersion, and/or ability to play loud will quickly stop selling. (Conversely, monitors like the Alesis that meet all these requirements at an affordable price will continue to be bestsellers and win awards.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

All I'm asking, just please don't do the same thing here Joe. And if you insist on continuing, can the Mods please keep him in line?

Same thing as what, exactly?
If you read my posts, you will notice that my arguments are always logical and my opinions are always based on knowledge and experience. If you have a complaint about some specific post, by all means report it. Otherwise, stop making false accusations and generalizations about me.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Same thing as what, exactly?
If you read my posts, you will notice that my arguments are always logical and my opinions are always based on knowledge and experience. If you have a complaint about some specific post, by all means report it. Otherwise, stop making false accusations and generalizations about me.

Well, there's nothing logical and no 'knowledge' extolled by saying all studio monitors sound exactly the same. You haven't measured a single one yourself, and only casually listened to a few plus whatever you own. So now this diatribe is your latest flavor of the month. You'll keep hammering on it no matter how idiotic it sounds, and how much drama it causes. And then in some time you'll drop this routine and start something new, something equally idiotic which you'll refuse to admit is just plain wrong.

Causing internet drama apparently gives you some morbid sense of pleasure. And from my experience with you on avsforum, you don't care how many people hate you, you'll continue without any self-editing. I just wish the Mods here would put an end to it, or even better if you yourself would realize you have a lot to learn and stop insisting your silly notions are fact.

 

[avaserfi]

This argument is completely futile and for no reason should degrade to name calling. This is what separates Audioholics [and a few other forums] from forums that are less civilized forums such as AVS. There will always be people who are unwilling to accept quantifiable data despite proper presentation. As always one is able to make their own decision as to whether or not they accept this data irregardless of understanding and/or knowledge. Rather than pointlessly arguing be the bigger man and drop the subject - if this is done the moderators will have no need to step in and there will be no inflammation of the situation.

As far as this data alluded to in my previous paragraph goes I am willing to discuss it, but only in a civilized manner. If members are interested in such a conversation I would gladly take part in it.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Well, maybe I had a knee-jerk reaction because of my experience with him on avsforum. I've just seen way too many times the negative effect he can have on any converstaion where he's involved.

I did join here in the hopes that this place was less dramatic, and from what I've seen thus far that is the case. Then pulliam's alter-ego posted and I was like here we go again!

 

[gus6464]

If you are going to claim it, prove it.

Why are you hiding the fact that you are also Pulliam at AVS? Are you ashamed or something? One quick search between the two and one can easily see the following:

1. Both keep claiming CD is vastly superior to vinyl and that is all that matters
2. Alessis 1's are best speakers ever.
3. Def Techs used to be best speakers ever but are still best for HT.
4. Klipsch are the crappiest speakers ever
5. Both bought a pair of JBL Stadiums around the same time. Hmmmmm
6. Both their hearing are equivalent to 20/20 vision, and thus perfect.
(BTW 20/20 vision is not perfect vision and just a standard they go by. One can see better than 20/20.)

I can keep the list going but you guys get the idea.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Wow! Some really amazing coincidences there, almost like a "Twilight Zone" episode!

 

[gus6464]

The point is that the reason this place is better than AVS is because of their members. You don't see anyone else derailing vinyl threads with random posts about CDs superiority. You state that you want to help people with their purchase decisions, but who in the world is going to take you seriously after reading your posts? One thing is being helpful by commenting on something you actually know something about, and another is just to act like a 4 year old whose stuff is always the best.

 

[emorphien]

Ohh, I remember PULLIAM when I used to occasionally post on or read AVS. I haven't gone there in a year or more though.

Aside from that, the assertion that all studio monitors sound the same is ludicrous. Joe himself states those speakers have a response of 45Hz-20KHz +/- 3dB. Nothing prevents those from being at +3 where another set of studio monitors is -3. That's a 6dB different and could be noticeable.

 

[3db]

a) I concede that differences could appear at vastly higher volume levels than I would ever seriously consider listening at. I have never turned any speakers up loud enough to excite resonant modes.

b) I was referring to the objective standard that insures all monitors output the same waveform. There is no relation between this and the personal choices producers make, except to guarantee that the particular studio is not a factor in these choices.

c) If Alesis were a commercial marketer, I might mistrust their specs. I would certainly cite an independent measurement if I knew of one.
+/- 3dB is the standard because only a significantly larger variation than that would be audible. Also, the limits are only reached at the extremes of the frequency range.

a) dispersion charcteristics alter a sound as do cabinet resonances. You can argue all you want but you can't argue with the laws of physics.

b) Different drivers from different manufactures have different excursions for a given amplitude level. Put that in cabinets with different volumes again and the sound will be different.

c) You can easily here a 3db difference in signal strength. Say that one speaker has a 3db peak in mid bass while the 2nd speaker has a -3db dip in midrange, you don't think thats not going to sound different?


Like mentioned before, blanket statements like you made are just plain wrong and can have many holes punched thru them.

 

[fmw]

The reality is that, if you visit any large recording studio, you won't find Alesis monitors at the mixing desk. Normally you will find full range speakers. Our local studio uses high end Genelec monitors with a pair of 15" subwoofers for monitoring mixes. If you were to mix using bookshelf speakers as monitors the end result would be overly bassy. A lot of engineers prefer to mix with headphones for that matter.

The Alesis bookshelves are good, accurate speakers but they are bookshelf size and limited for that reason. They are huge sellers with amateur recordists. I think they are also a pretty choice for home audio as long as they are coupled with a subwoofer. But to compare them to the B&W 802's (one the best speakers I've ever owned,) for example, would be a losing proposition.

As a veteran of years of bias controlled listening tests, I can tell you that any two different speakers I've ever tested have show an audible difference. In fact we've had some matched pairs that showed audible differences between the two identical speakers. There are a lot things in home audio that don't show audible differences in bias controlled listening tests but speakers aren't one of them. That's test results, not opinion.