Non-Localized??????

[speakerman39]

Hello folks I have a question. As some of you know, I have my Outlaw Audio LFM-1Pluses positioned directly behind my love-seat/sweet-spot. With that said, the bass most of the times seems to be coming from the front of my little room. Other times, it is really hard to tell where it is coming from. I guess this depends on the material being played to some extent. My X-over is set to 80 Hz calibrated to 75 db via my SPL meter. Is this a good thing for the bass to sound like it is originating from the front-stage??? I mean it sounds fine, but I thought the bass would sound more like it was coming from behind my love-seat. Or, should I try to put them both up by my front-stage??? Would the bass then sound more like it is coming from the rear??? The reason I am asking is because it is a lot of work to put both up by my front-stage due to my room being so small. Thank you for your time. Feel free to share your thoughts. Perhaps, we can all learn something here from this. Here is a pic where my Pluses are located now.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[MDS]

I would say that if you can definitely tell the bass is coming from behind you and you know that is where the subs actually are then you are able to localize the bass and that would not be a good thing.

The fact that it actually sounds like the bass is up front is part of the illusion of a well calibrated system. The explosions that occur on screen sound like they are coming from the screen.

 

[zhimbo]

I'm sure if you were playing the subwoofer ONLY - no front speakers - it wouldn't sound like it was coming from the front. When it sounds like it's coming from the front, it's either an illusion based on where you're paying attention, or it's because the higher harmonics of the bass sound are coming from the front speakers, and you're localizing those, not the bass frequencies.

 

[Alex2507]

the bass most of the times seems to be coming from the front of my little room. Other times, it is really hard to tell where it is coming from.

I thought that was ideal. You're just bragging, aintcha?

I've had my sub on the left and then on the right only to be able to tell exactly where it was. I did not like that. To me if you can't tell where it's comming from, the sub is in exactly the right spot. IMO the one place that you don't want to localize the bass is behind you. It's unnerving.

 

[speakerman39]

I would say that if you can definitely tell the bass is coming from behind you and you know that is where the subs actually are then you are able to localize the bass and that would not be a good thing.

The fact that it actually sounds like the bass is up front is part of the illusion of a well calibrated system. The explosions that occur on screen sound like they are coming from the screen.

Very good point. It sounds like I have done it correctly then. The only time I can tell the bass is coming from behind me is when I feel it. This happens mostly when watching movies. Thanks for posting and helping me out.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[jostenmeat]

Just keep buying and stacking LFM-1 Pluses until you can finally localize them. When you can finally localize, return that sub, or stop at 10 subs, whichever comes first.

 

[speakerman39]

I'm sure if you were playing the subwoofer ONLY - no front speakers - it wouldn't sound like it was coming from the front. When it sounds like it's coming from the front, it's either an illusion based on where you're paying attention, or it's because the higher harmonics of the bass sound are coming from the front speakers, and you're localizing those, not the bass frequencies.

Interesting perspective. Never really thought of it that way. My Polk RTi6's do not have a lot of bass, but it sure sounds like they do now. My former brother-in-law visited the other day and said he thought the bass was coming from the front-stage. At times though, it is almost next to impossible to tell where it is coming from as it sounds so well balanced. I really like that effect as it is kinda spooky. Thanks for posting.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

I thought that was ideal. You're just bragging, aintcha?

I've had my sub on the left and then on the right only to be able to tell exactly where it was. I did not like that. To me if you can't tell where it's comming from, the sub is in exactly the right spot. IMO the one place that you don't want to localize the bass is behind you. It's unnerving.

Hey Alex hope all is well my friend. To be honest, I am not bragging but am attempting to get the most out of my gear as possible. With that said, it sounds like I have them placed where they need to be. Thanks for sharing my friend.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[jostenmeat]

Yeah, zhimbo's point is why some people might opt for steeper x-over slopes for subs, like 4th order.

 

[speakerman39]

Just keep buying and stacking LFM-1 Pluses until you can finally localize them. When you can finally localize, return that sub, or stop at 10 subs, whichever comes first.

jost good idea, but there is only one small problem. Or big depending on who you ask-no money!!!!!! In fact, I still owe $50 on my second Plus. The only thing I plan to buy next is a BR player or a PS3. Not sure just yet as I am waiting to see what Oppo comes out with first. After i get some more things paid off I plan to make a few other changes, but it may be a long while before I do. Thanks for posting.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Yeah, zhimbo's point is why some people might opt for steeper x-over slopes for subs, like 4th order.

So very true. But, the higher the X-over point will still result in the sub(s) being more localized regardless of the order. It is true, however, that the higher the order the steeper the slope, thus attenuating much faster given a X-over point. At least, this is how it has been explained to me. I am by no means an expert. Am I correct here?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[jostenmeat]

absolutely correct. IIRC, 1st = 6db/octave, 2nd =12, 3rd = 24, 4th = 48...

now I remember seeing some webpage for some crazy speakers that listed a 6th order x-over or something...

edit: just googled... I could be wrong, perhaps 6, 12, 18, 24...? yep I was wrong.

 

[speakerman39]

absolutely correct. IIRC, 1st = 6db/octave, 2nd =12, 3rd = 24, 4th = 48...

now I remember seeing some webpage for some crazy speakers that listed a 6th order x-over or something...

Hey, don't remember the brand but there was a sub with like 8th order or 48 db/octave X-over. Talking about steep. It seems like this sub was very expensive too. Crazy isn't it.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[croseiv]

I'd think having the impression of the bass "up front" is a good thing.

 

[speakerman39]

I'd think having the impression of the bass "up front" is a good thing.

That does seem to be the consensus right now. Hey, maybe I actually did something right for a change......LOL!!!! Thanks for posting croseiv.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[croseiv]

That does seem to be the consensus right now. Hey, maybe I actually did something right for a change......LOL!!!! Thanks for posting croseiv.

Cheers,

Phil

Looks like you're about to make it to the next level post count wise there Phil!

 

[speakerman39]

Looks like you're about to make it to the next level post count wise there Phil!

Post count? What do you mean my friend?

Cheers,

Phil

Note: Never mind croseiv, now I see what you are referring to. Thanks for pointing that out to me my friend.