Just wanted to say thanks

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I must have worded things wrong, tone controls are often a bad idea and do more harm than good so higher end equipment seldom offers them and many choose a cable for what it either adds or takes away from an individual system but to term cables as tone controls was not my intention. Once again its turning into an arguement so count me out, those who believe or dont go your own way and enjoy what makes you happy.

I definitely don't want to "argue".

But friendly debates are okay, right?

I agree 100% about not using tone controls. I use "Source Direct" in my players and preamps, which completely bypasses tone controls, balance controls, DSP, and bass management.

But I believe that using tone controls anywhere from any source is bad, whether it is in the cables, players, or preamps.

I think some of these exotic cables do act as "tone controls".

And I think these cables are bad cables because they act as tone controls.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Wow, this thread got long very quickly! The original intent of this thread wasn't to spark any debates, but just to thank everyone that contributes to this wonderful forum. How about we save the debating and/or arguments for another time?

We'll be doing the test tonight, so I'll post results tomorrow. I think it would be wise for me to post the results in a separate thread?

 

[itschris]

There's some things about this little hobby of ours that comes down to the good o'le Ford vs Chevy style argument back in the day. It's all good.

The more people "discuss" the better because often times we get to see the reasonings behind the argument. I for one like to take in all information and create my own opinion, so this kind of banter works for me. Its helps me learn new things, confirm things I already know, or changes my mind in the presence of new thoughts.

 

[chadnliz]

Wow, this thread got long very quickly! The original intent of this thread wasn't to spark any debates, but just to thank everyone that contributes to this wonderful forum. How about we save the debating and/or arguments for another time?

We'll be doing the test tonight, so I'll post results tomorrow. I think it would be wise for me to post the results in a separate thread?

Just as I would have ignited a spark if I started a thread saying thanks for turning me onto better cables, when you thank others while sorta dismissing those who have a slightly different view its bound to happen, this site is full of debate. Good luck on your test and have some fun hanging out, it appears you already have an opinion on this test so ask yourself just how open minded you will be but I will confess even if you are open minded it doesnt mean your comparisonm will prove anything but all the same its fun to hang out and get involved with audio, music and friendship!
Nothing wrong with debate right?.......have a great time testing

 

[Alex2507]

How about we save the debating and/or arguments for another time?

Is that request aimed at 1 poster in paticular?

I think it would be wise for me to post the results in a separate thread?

Personally I think here is perfect.

I know many feel I am a fool

Nooooo...not a fool.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just as I would have ignited a spark if I started a thread saying thanks for turning me onto better cables, when you thank others while sorta dismissing those who have a slightly different view its bound to happen, this site is full of debate. Good luck on your test and have some fun hanging out, it appears you already have an opinion on this test so ask yourself just how open minded you will be but I will confess even if you are open minded it doesnt mean your comparisonm will prove anything but all the same its fun to hang out and get involved with audio, music and friendship!
Nothing wrong with debate right?.......have a great time testing

There is nothing wrong with debates. It keeps us interested. Imagine how boring it would be if we all just agreed 100% on everything.

As far as I'm concerned, you don't need to prove a thing. If you feel that wires make a difference, that is just as cool as if you feel they don't make a difference.

So what kind of cables/wires do you have?

 

[Bloodstriker]

My reply wasn't directed towards any one person in particular. It's just that this thread has gone slightly off topic.

Chadnliz - I respect your opinion. I am going into this test very open minded, as I am simply out to find out what the results are - I have nothing to lose either way. I just want to form an opinion based on what I hear for myself and not from what I hear other people say. Who knows? Maybe I'll be here tomorrow swearing by cryogenically frozen cable.

The great thing about this hobby is that everyone here loves it and is passionate about it to get into heated discussions.

 

[chadnliz]

Seeing how I was asked I will disclose my wires in my system but I dont think it should raise much fuss. I have Audioquest King Cobra wires for interconnects, Cardass Hexlink for Digital Coax, Tekline power cables, I run Dayton Audio speaker cables and use Audioquest for Comp video and DVI and HDMI wire from companies I cant recall but it aint pricey. Not one cable in my system cost over $300 and I never paid even half of retail from dealer, vendor and friendly contacts. I do have friends, family and folks I respect that do have expensive cables I respect and believe in and I have just as many I just cant figure out and just scratch my head in dis-belief. My only goal is to get the simple admission that SOME cables are a good buy and its not as cut and dry as it is presented here, I just wish that wasnt too much to ask. I have said from day 1 most cables are a fools investment and much gear sounds very similar but again where I jump in when its made law (like Gravity) that no cables are worth it and no investment or exploration of better gear is wise. When I get mocked, and insulted I get fired up not unlike anyone else.....and sometimes right or wrong I respond in kind. My goal here is to have some fun, learn and share knowledge..not argue and get mocked, laughed at, insulted and lectured but I suppose if it keeps up some will get their wish and I will play somewhere else. I have learned from and helped others here and made a couple friends I still am in contact with and I hope to feel welcome even if I dont agree with everyone here,

 

[BobSD]

If your moving to another audio site, let me know, I like where you are comimg from, and every comment you make is a very interesting and contructive. You are not trying to be part of a group that like to pat each other on the back, and never say anything that they feel the rest of there group would not like hearing. WALK TALL!

 

[Midcow2]

First , Iagree forums are great

That's exactly what we are going to do. Oh and Mazersteven and mtrycrafts - you guys have been tons of help! Anyone who's ever posted in these forums have been of great help.

Chandliz - Not trying to start a debate/fight here. I know everyone believes what they believe. I'm just curious as to if my friend will be able to tell a difference between the cables when the time comes.

One quesiton - since Monster doesn't have any info on the gauge of the wire, how can I do a fair comparison? I'm thinking of pitting 8' of no-name 12AWG vs a Monster MKII400?

Actually there have been numerous discussions on wiring and fore the most part wiring is overated. Copper is copper. As long a you have a decent calbe sheath and good connectors wire is wire. At 8ft and 12 gauge, you will not be able to tell any difference.

The reason being --- at 12 gauge ( very lare for speaker wire0 you only have a resistance of only 0.001588 ohms per foot. So 8ft is .012704 ohms. This is .1584 % of the load into a typical 8 ohm speaker. Unless you are Dr. Spock or some other android you will not be able to hear any difference. Not there is the self-fulfilling prophesy syndrome. If you compare two wires/cables and you know one is much more expensive, then you tend to say the more expensive sounds better. However, if you do a completely controlled, unbiased test you are going to get much closer to 50/50 odds of which is best.

If you are doing your own cables, here are some good, secure monorice bannna plugs to be used as end connectors : http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

And most important, YES the audioholics forums are a great source of excellent experience and information!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Seeing how I was asked I will disclose my wires in my system but I dont think it should raise much fuss. I have Audioquest King Cobra wires for interconnects, Cardass Hexlink for Digital Coax, Tekline power cables, I run Dayton Audio speaker cables and use Audioquest for Comp video and DVI and HDMI wire from companies I cant recall but it aint pricey. Not one cable in my system cost over $300 and I never paid even half of retail from dealer, vendor and friendly contacts. I do have friends, family and folks I respect that do have expensive cables I respect and believe in and I have just as many I just cant figure out and just scratch my head in dis-belief. My only goal is to get the simple admission that SOME cables are a good buy and its not as cut and dry as it is presented here, I just wish that wasnt too much to ask. I have said from day 1 most cables are a fools investment and much gear sounds very similar but again where I jump in when its made law (like Gravity) that no cables are worth it and no investment or exploration of better gear is wise. When I get mocked, and insulted I get fired up not unlike anyone else.....and sometimes right or wrong I respond in kind. My goal here is to have some fun, learn and share knowledge..not argue and get mocked, laughed at, insulted and lectured but I suppose if it keeps up some will get their wish and I will play somewhere else. I have learned from and helped others here and made a couple friends I still am in contact with and I hope to feel welcome even if I dont agree with everyone here,

If I had all the money, I would get all Kimber Kables or the likes.

I've owned Kimber Kable, Audioquest, Monster, & Vampire Wire in the past. It's just too expensive. There is nothing wrong with expensive wires except for the cost of it. If you have the money for it, more power to you.

I know most people would not buy that $500 Denon D-Link cable either. But if I had the money, I would.

Right now I have 100% Blue Jeans Cables for everything, which is good enough for me. But it's cool for others to have more expensive cables.

 

[Midcow2]

Kimber Kables - WOW $$$

If I had all the money, I would get all Kimber Kables or the likes.

I've owned Kimber Kable, Audioquest, Monster, & Vampire Wire in the past. It's just too expensive. There is nothing wrong with expensive wires except for the cost of it. If you have the money for it, more power to you.

I know most people would not buy that $500 Denon D-Link cable either. But if I had the money, I would.

Right now I have 100% Blue Jeans Cables for everything, which is good enough for me. But it's cool for others to have more expensive cables.

But what a review - http://www.kimber.com/Reviews/Data/rev-ss-stereophile0401.htm

Nice products : http://www.kimber.com/
But to me copper is copper. It is hard to mess with the laws of electricity.

Kimber Kables do make a very nice presentation of copper though

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But what a review - http://www.kimber.com/Reviews/Data/rev-ss-stereophile0401.htm

Nice products : http://www.kimber.com/
But to me copper is copper. It is hard to mess with the laws of electricity.

Kimber Kables do make a very nice presentation of copper though

Well, I can't tell the difference either when I had my Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker wires. But I'll give my friends the benefit of the doubt if they swear by it. Anything is possible I always say.

They do look so cool, though. That's why I braid all my BJC speaker wires to make them look cooler.

 

[jinjuku]

chadnliz, thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking the same thing and spoke to my friend. He won't be bringing the monster cables but some "custom" cable from a company called sonocable. This is the type if speaker wire that I want to test against since it is one of those "high end" wire boutiques.

http://www.sonocable.com/products_stradivarious.shtml

If you check out the Technology, the silver wire is shielded with Teflon and the silver is cryogenically treated.

Here's something interesting though - they say that high frequency travels on the outside of the cable. Does this mean that high and low frequencies travel on two different paths? I thought the only thing being sent via speaker wire is electricity and not frequencies? I'm confused.

You are referring to what is called the 'skinning' effect. That is the tendency for A/C current density to travel on the surface rather than the core of the conductor.

As far as esoteric cables go: I am sure you can design a cable that ALTERS the sound. That isn't being argued. If I made a cable out of wood, it would definitely change the sound (as in NONE). That isn't what will be debated here. I am sure that in a blind test I could pick out a cable made of wood vs copper 100% of the time...

 

[jinjuku]

Rick has not been around long or only has mass market gear because over 90% of Hi-End gear has no tone controls,

Right now Rickster is carrying more credibility around these parts than you...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right now Rickster is carrying more credibility around these parts than you...

Isn't Rickster an electrician?

 

[itschris]

I like expensive wires just because they usually look really cool and have a bit of snobbery to it. There's nothing wrong with that. I did some of my own tests (which I posted awhile back) and I couldn't here anything different between cables. But at the same time, I can't prove that no one else can.

Still, who cares? I'm like AcuDefTechGuy. I've had a bit of everything in the past, but now, my responsibilities require a bit more restraint. If that weren't the case, I'd probably have my whole system connected with Kimber... not because I think it would make a noticable difference necessarily, but because it's just awsome, serious looking wire.

I think we all agree here that cables do make a difference... that is quality cable is a must. Blue Jean makes great quality cable... but so does Kimber, Audioquest, and others.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I like expensive wires just because they usually look really cool and have a bit of snobbery to it. There's nothing wrong with that. I did some of my own tests (which I posted awhile back) and I couldn't here anything different between cables. But at the same time, I can't prove that no one else can.

Still, who cares? I'm like AcuDefTechGuy. I've had a bit of everything in the past, but now, my responsibilities require a bit more restraint. If that weren't the case, I'd probably have my whole system connected with Kimber... not because I think it would make a noticable difference necessarily, but because it's just awsome, serious looking wire.

I think we all agree here that cables do make a difference... that is quality cable is a must. Blue Jean makes great quality cable... but so does Kimber, Audioquest, and others.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I gave all my Kimber Kable speaker wires and interconnects to my younger brother when I sold him my PS3 and Harman Kardon 247!!!

I was not on drug. Really, I wasn't! But surely I was out of my mind!

I should have just hung those Kimbers on the wall or something.

 

[itschris]

I used to have two sets of Kimber Silver Streaks back about 8 or 10 years ago. They were "inherited" by my ex-fiance' along with some of my other a/v stuff and my 1st gen Mits Diamond 61" 16x9 RPTV!!!!!!! That's reason enough to be bitter the rest of my life, but somehow I got over it fairly quickly!

 

[jinjuku]

Cables are the opposite of children...

I like expensive wires just because they usually look really cool and have a bit of snobbery to it. There's nothing wrong with that. I did some of my own tests (which I posted awhile back) and I couldn't here anything different between cables. But at the same time, I can't prove that no one else can.

Still, who cares? I'm like AcuDefTechGuy. I've had a bit of everything in the past, but now, my responsibilities require a bit more restraint. If that weren't the case, I'd probably have my whole system connected with Kimber... not because I think it would make a noticable difference necessarily, but because it's just awsome, serious looking wire.

I think we all agree here that cables do make a difference... that is quality cable is a must. Blue Jean makes great quality cable... but so does Kimber, Audioquest, and others.

Cables should be heard, not seen... (actually they shouldn't be heard either, explains why I don't have any kids).