Just wanted to say thanks

[Bloodstriker]

It's amazing what some people believe. I'm talking about speaker wires. I have to admit that I was taken by the hype when I first got into this hobby. I paid hundreds of dollars for monster cable interconnects and speaker wires (they don't even deserve to get their name capitalized). After being on this forum for about a year, researching via internet and via professionals, I've come realize that I've been fooled.

I just had a lengthy discussion with the person that got me into audio as a hobby and he swears by silver interconnects with the highest costing monster cable speaker wire. I thought it was my duty to let him know the truth, since he's responsible for my audio habits. However, he "can tell me there is a difference" between different brands of wires with the same resistance/impedance. I know I'll never convince him, so here I am and I just want to thank you guys for saving me hundreds of dollars in the future (I'm looking at getting more than 100 feet of wires in the next week.)

Cheers!

 

[Alex2507]

I'm sure it's been their pleasure.

 

[dorokusai]

This hobby is pretty simple until you start thinking about it.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[mazersteven]

Don't know if I helped. But Thanks for the Thanks.

 

[croseiv]

I doubt I helped, but you are very welcome!

 

[chadnliz]

Smells like a thread to start a debate/fight but good luck with what ever you believe.....even if it is not 100% correct. I like certain cables for the way they change how my system sounds and knowing there are far more myths than truths in cables it takes special care to not get ripped off but there are a number of cables that change and improve sound quality.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It's amazing what some people believe. I'm talking about speaker wires. I have to admit that I was taken by the hype when I first got into this hobby. I paid hundreds of dollars for monster cable interconnects and speaker wires (they don't even deserve to get their name capitalized). After being on this forum for about a year, researching via internet and via professionals, I've come realize that I've been fooled.

I just had a lengthy discussion with the person that got me into audio as a hobby and he swears by silver interconnects with the highest costing monster cable speaker wire. I thought it was my duty to let him know the truth, since he's responsible for my audio habits. However, he "can tell me there is a difference" between different brands of wires with the same resistance/impedance. I know I'll never convince him, so here I am and I just want to thank you guys for saving me hundreds of dollars in the future (I'm looking at getting more than 100 feet of wires in the next week.)

Cheers!

If your friend is up to it, many will refuse, why not offer to test his amazing talents
Do some single blind testing. One of the test is to make him think you change wires but don't. See what happens. Do these a number of times.

 

[Bloodstriker]

That's exactly what we are going to do. Oh and Mazersteven and mtrycrafts - you guys have been tons of help! Anyone who's ever posted in these forums have been of great help.

Chandliz - Not trying to start a debate/fight here. I know everyone believes what they believe. I'm just curious as to if my friend will be able to tell a difference between the cables when the time comes.

One quesiton - since Monster doesn't have any info on the gauge of the wire, how can I do a fair comparison? I'm thinking of pitting 8' of no-name 12AWG vs a Monster MKII400?

 

[chadnliz]

I can tell you now that if its Monster you are going to test its not going to change any opinions or likely prove anything.....Monster is just wire but my point was that not all wires are going to sound the same. Monster surely doesnt have the same standards, research or even audio goals as other companies I refer to like, MIT, Audioquest, Transparent, Nordost, Cardass and others so its not a competent evaluation
I have no intention of getting sucked into a drawn out arguement and wont allow myself to be drawn in to a conversation that has been done to death, many dont feel that any cable makes a bit of difference, others are convinced they do and its that simple. I know many feel I am a fool and have no reason to think the way I do but I feel the same about many others so I am going to agree to disagree and wish you luck in your testing, atleast hanging out and some beers might be a success!

 

[zhimbo]

One quesiton - since Monster doesn't have any info on the gauge of the wire, how can I do a fair comparison? I'm thinking of pitting 8' of no-name 12AWG vs a Monster MKII400?

At 8 feet, it hardly matters. 18 Gauge should be sufficient, with an 8 ohm load, according to this article on Audioholics.
Get 16 or 14AWG. Cheap stuff.

 

[Bloodstriker]

chadnliz, thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking the same thing and spoke to my friend. He won't be bringing the monster cables but some "custom" cable from a company called sonocable. This is the type if speaker wire that I want to test against since it is one of those "high end" wire boutiques.

http://www.sonocable.com/products_stradivarious.shtml

If you check out the Technology, the silver wire is shielded with Teflon and the silver is cryogenically treated.

Here's something interesting though - they say that high frequency travels on the outside of the cable. Does this mean that high and low frequencies travel on two different paths? I thought the only thing being sent via speaker wire is electricity and not frequencies? I'm confused.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Bloodstriker, here is an link that's been around for many years.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Gives much info on speaker wire and it many myths.
Keep in mind, you don't want expensive wire that will alter your speaker's sound. That is what the treble & bass controls are for; and you've don't have to pay extra for them.

 

[chadnliz]

Hi Bloodstriker, here is an link that's been around for many years.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Gives much info on speaker wire and it many myths.
Keep in mind, you don't want expensive wire that will alter your speaker's sound. That is what the treble & bass controls are for; and you've don't have to pay extra for them.

Rick has not been around long or only has mass market gear because over 90% of Hi-End gear has no tone controls, tone controls never change only the sounds frequency you wish to change, it often adds or subtracts things you didnt want to mess with. Many buy cables to tune the sound they desire and thats were cables can and do make a difference, argueing that cables shouldnt change sound is pointless because that is the goal of the person purchasing them which is why cables cant in whole be considered "snake oil".
I am firmly skeptical of most cables and know the vast majority just look cool and cost a small fortune but I am not so simple minded to dismiss them as a whole and I hope you are not either.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Many buy cables to tune the sound they desire and thats were cables can and do make a difference, argueing that cables shouldnt change sound is pointless because that is the goal of the person purchasing them which is why cables cant in whole be considered "snake oil".
I am firmly skeptical of most cables and know the vast majority just look cool and cost a small fortune but I am not so simple minded to dismiss them as a whole and I hope you are not either.

As a whole, probably not since 24ga can be audibly different from 16ga or 12ga, but, after that, comparable cables are not tone controls, contrary to those who imagine they are. Actually, that is all it is, imagination.

 

[mtrycrafts]

chadnliz, thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking the same thing and spoke to my friend. He won't be bringing the monster cables but some "custom" cable from a company called sonocable. This is the type if speaker wire that I want to test against since it is one of those "high end" wire boutiques.

http://www.sonocable.com/products_stradivarious.shtml

If you check out the Technology, the silver wire is shielded with Teflon and the silver is cryogenically treated.

Here's something interesting though - they say that high frequency travels on the outside of the cable. Does this mean that high and low frequencies travel on two different paths? I thought the only thing being sent via speaker wire is electricity and not frequencies? I'm confused.

More snake oil and urban legend about where the audio band travels on the wire. Lows and highs penetrate to the center of audio speaker cables, period, end of story.

http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/images/skineffect.gif

You should have no problem comparing his cable and your intended 12ga.
Trying to do the test is where it is at so he will not get any hint visually or some other means which cable you actually connect.
Silver and that cryo process is really not a concern, no advantage for him



You need to do at least 10 trial with each pair, if you do more than two cables to compare.
Generate a random number table to swap cables, or just flip coins, or not swap cables just pretend.
Have him write down the answer for each trial. Correct his score card at the end of the test, not after each trial.
Let us know how many correct and how many trials: 10 15, or 20 trial.

 

[chadnliz]

I must have worded things wrong, tone controls are often a bad idea and do more harm than good so higher end equipment seldom offers them and many choose a cable for what it either adds or takes away from an individual system but to term cables as tone controls was not my intention. Once again its turning into an arguement so count me out, those who believe or dont go your own way and enjoy what makes you happy.

 

[Soundman]

I Know What You Mean

I know exactly what you mean. This site has been my number one place for good information, if not directly, then linked to the appropriate place. Good job Audioholics!

 

[Alex2507]

If you check out the Technology, the silver wire is shielded with Teflon and the silver is cryogenically treated.

That might have read, 'If you check out the marketing'. BJC has a neat little collection of articles. Here's a link to one of them that talks about silver and Teflon.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/exoticmaterials.htm

 

[Rickster71]

Rick has not been around long or only has mass market gear because over 90% of Hi-End gear has no tone controls, tone controls never change only the sounds frequency you wish to change, it often adds or subtracts things you didnt want to mess with. Many buy cables to tune the sound they desire and thats were cables can and do make a difference, argueing that cables shouldnt change sound is pointless because that is the goal of the person purchasing them which is why cables cant in whole be considered "snake oil".
I am firmly skeptical of most cables and know the vast majority just look cool and cost a small fortune but I am not so simple minded to dismiss them as a whole and I hope you are not either.

How does one know what cable to buy, to 'tune the sound they desire'?
Do the cables you tune your system with, come with a tuning fork?
Or perhaps they have the frequency written on them to show the purchaser how it 'tunes' the sound?
I think it would make more sense to listen to as many speakers as possible before you buy them, and get the sound you want.
Why would a person spend thousands on speakers, only to later "tune" them with cables?

 

[Rickster71]

Once again its turning into an arguement so count me out, those who believe or dont go your own way and enjoy what makes you happy.

Once again it's an argument; because once again you've started an argument.
Anyone can go back to look at your post history, to see you've had a chip on your shoulder, and the same condescending attitude you've demonstrated here.