Shame on you Denon!

[MinusTheBear]

I don't know how much money Michael Jackson has now, but when his financial state was in it's prime, I don't think he would buy this Denon cable. Why? It doesn't cost ENOUGH. He would buy it if it cost $50,000.

Don't hate, right?

Maybe it's just the ENVY talking?

Those damn rich bastards!

I wish I were one!

Is it fun going shopping with Michael Jackson? What kind of underwear does he like to buy, boxers or briefs or would they not be good enough, he would need the silk underwear right?

What I like about Denon's product line for receivers is that Denon offers their product to a wide demographic of listeners and budgets. They offer receivers that satisfy beginers to the discriminating audiophile, people that want to spend $400 to someone that wants to spend thousands of dollars. I would rather have Denon put their time and recources into their electronic equipment rather than their accessories which seem overpriced for their function (speakers stands, intereconnects etc.). If Denon wants to take this road and invest more money into other things that is fine, but if I feel their quality ends up lacking in any way in their electronic equipment, in the future I would have no problem bringing my business elsewhere.

 

[itschris]

If Denon wants to take this road and invest more money into other things that is fine, but if I feel their quality ends up lacking in any way in their electronic equipment, in the future I would have no problem bringing my business elsewhere.

Yeah, but if all your doing is buying a cheap cable from China (like just about everyone else) and then throwing some fat shielding and casing around it, how much are you really investing.

If there really is no benefit to high cables, I doubt they're really putting all the much recsources into technology... marketing ploys? yes! True R&D? doubt it.

 

[Pyrrho]

... yeah I get it, but why is everyone pissed because there's people willing to pay too much for something. Hell, if I can sell something for twice as much as the next guy and get it, than why not? We all perceive value in different ways. That's the way it works in a free capitalist society where the pricing of commerce is ultimately driven by two concepts: 1) necessity and scare resources and 2) basic supply and demand.
...
If Dennon, Monster, or Kimber want to put a bunch of useless technology into a cable and charge an arm and leg for it, it's their option. No one's forcing anyone to buy it, just as no one forces anyone to buy a $25K pair of speakers over a $2.5K pair that 95% of people couldn't tell difference if they were blindfolded.

Actually, it isn't that 95% couldn't tell the difference if they were blindfolded; it is 100%. For another example of this sort of thing, take a look at:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/pear-cable-science

My only caveat is that they shouldn't deliberately and materially lie. They can talk about data sheets and prove that this measurement comes out better than this other cable (even though it may be meaningless in the real world) but they can't outright lie.

The thing is, they DO lie. They say that it improves the sound. But since NO ONE can actually hear a difference, this is a total BS lie. Sure, it might (or might not) MEASURE better, but that does not mean that it will make any audible difference at all.

They claim it sounds better, and it doesn't. That means they are lying.

I for one like it when people put out stuff like this. I'd never buy it, but I think it's fun to look at and makes me marvel at the kind of money some people really have to burn. And that's the group you're talking about. No one is gonna be putting away a slush fund to buy a several hundred dollar network cable or gonna trade the weekend at Disney for it. You either have the money and don't care if you blow it or you're buy different cables.

On that you are mistaken. People believe something, and so they spend their money accordingly. There are plenty of audiophiles who save their pennies to blow on worthless audio gewgaws instead of on other things. This affects their families fairly directly, and it also affects the marketplace for everyone else. You see, by people supporting BS nonsense, they encourage more companies to engage in sales of BS nonsense, and that makes it harder for people to find something that is actually good. If companies devoted their time and effort on making good products, consumers would benefit, both because the best would likely be better than it now is, and because they would have less BS nonsense to avoid.

Just think about it: Suppose no one bought BS nonsense audio products for just one year. What do you think that would do to the marketplace? Of course, that isn't going to happen, because most people have never been taught how to reason well, so they are unprepared for the troublesome task of separating out sense from nonsense. Perhaps an introductory logic or critical thinking class should be added to schools and require that people pass the class in order to graduate with a high school diploma. Of course, the makers of garbage and the other frauds (like false religions) would be opposed, as their power and income are dependent upon people having poor judgment. Knowledge really is power, and that is why there are so many people interested in other people not having it.

 

[itschris]

I do understand what you're saying... but anyone who jepoardizes their family to buy an expenseive stereo cable is total moron. Someone like that utterly lacks the capacity to make any sound decision. I don't think the companies, or anyone for that matter, need to protect the ignorant, lazy, or flippant consumer.

It's not different than bailing out people who bought homes they cannot afford. There's a guy in my neighborhood who bought a house with a 3 year interest only loan. Now his payment is going from under a grand to almost $4K and he's bewildered, depressed, bitter, and at an utter loss as to why he's going to lose his home. It's sad, but my capacity to for sympathy has limits.

We're talking about extreme cases here: Cables costing several hundred dollars each. No one is pinching pennies or giving up their vacation plans to buy that. I just don't believe it... if they do... I have no pity whatsoever for that type of ignorance. That's not the companiy's fault. It's the consumer.

There's a shared responsibility in any transaction. Would it be better if companies only made the minimum that was required to get the job done? Hardly! If Monster wants to market expensive cables, they should be able to. If they can show that it produces something better on a piece of paper, I have no issue with them saying their cable is better... it is. Is it better in the real world? Of course not. That's true of a lot of things.

I understand what you're saying, but no ones forcing you to buy these cables and if people don't want to put just an ounce of effort into thinking about their purchase than I don't care and I applaud those companies for their marketing prowness. I may not like it, but it's sort of like free speech. We have to put up with certain things for the greater good.

To make my point, I just Googles "should I buy expensive cables" this is what I got:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=should+I+buy+expensive+audio+cables
There's plenty of free and accurate info out there that even 2 minutes of reading will help guide any neophyte in the right direction. You gotta be willing to help yourself first.

 

[3db]

I always knew their products were priced at a premium. In the case of their receivers in someways I think their price is justified. Not in the sense that they necessarily sound better, but they work properly and have the features I'm interested in. However, my opinion of them was perhaps downgraded today:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9967991-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

Here in Canada, the Denons pretend to be dressed up NADs with their pricing. Utterly rediculous. A similar powered/equipped Yamaha often sells for $300 under the Denon name. I will never by Denon as long as I live in Canada.

 

[fmw]

Here in Canada, the Denons pretend to be dressed up NADs with their pricing. Utterly rediculous. A similar powered/equipped Yamaha often sells for $300 under the Denon name. I will never by Denon as long as I live in Canada.

But it's OK if you move to another country?

 

[3db]

But it's OK if you move to another country?

Only if comparable models between Denon and Yamaha are within $50 of one another.

 

[jcPanny]

Cable specs

You pay more for the Denon cable because it is "waterproof" just in case you want to use your Denon receiver under water
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-cables/denon-link-cable-ak/4507-7889_7-33060924.html

 

[Soundman]

Ha!...

Just another product helping Monoprice stay in business. Monoprice all the way, Baby!

 

[allargon]

Here's my main issue with Denon and the cables. I know Denon receivers tend to cost more than other mass market vendors (Yammy, Onkyo, Pioneer, Harmon Karmon, Sony, etc.). Hoewver, most would argue that feature wise and (yawn) build quality wise, they are worth it. The cabling thing puts them under the same cloud where I put Bose and Monster--grossly and unnecessarily overpriced. I then think, "Is this Denon receiver truly worth it, or am I being ripped off like if I buy Bose?" I know I would be better off looking at RBH, Paradigm, AV123, Axiom and others rather than Bose. Monster? Cables Unlimited, Blue Jeans, Monoprice and others all fit my bill better. Denon? With the cables, it makes me think maybe I should just save $300-500 and look towards Yamaha, Onkyo and others? just like I would save $495 buying the Ethernet cable elsewhere.

 

[itschris]

Here's my main issue with Denon and the cables. I know Denon receivers tend to cost more than other mass market vendors (Yammy, Onkyo, Pioneer, Harmon Karmon, Sony, etc.). Hoewver, most would argue that feature wise and (yawn) build quality wise, they are worth it. The cabling thing puts them under the same cloud where I put Bose and Monster--grossly and unnecessarily overpriced. I then think, "Is this Denon receiver truly worth it, or am I being ripped off like if I buy Bose?" I know I would be better off looking at RBH, Paradigm, AV123, Axiom and others rather than Bose. Monster? Cables Unlimited, Blue Jeans, Monoprice and others all fit my bill better. Denon? With the cables, it makes me think maybe I should just save $300-500 and look towards Yamaha, Onkyo and others? just like I would save $495 buying the Ethernet cable elsewhere.

You've just sorda made my point. You're exactly right. No one is forcing you to buy anything. As a consumer, you, me, everyone, has some responsibility to inform ourselves. Pure quality-wise, the Denon may not be any better than a lower priced product. However, you should have the options of still buying it if you want to shouldn't you? What if you just like Denon? What if you like the way the volume button feels, or you just like the way it looks? We all put a premium and discount on the things that matter to us and don't.

So, if Denon or anyone else wants to me BFSC's (big fat stupid cables) then let them. If I have the money, I may buy it just because I think they look cool... or I'll buy something else... but I should be able to decide and it's okay to have that kind of stuff around because one - I may want it just because and two - it's great for companies like Blue Jean who I'm huge fan of.

I mean this argument that Denon shouldn't have the nerve to put out this cable is just beyond me. No one seems to care that Mercedes sells the McClaren AMG SLR for almost $500K? Following the logic... why would anyone buy that car when they can buy a KIA for $15K?

 

[chadnliz]

Shame, SHAME on you Denon, your trying to make a profit by making a product the free market will either purchase or not in an effort to serve a want or desire from a segment of your customer base.......Shame on you Denon!

 

[fmw]

I mean this argument that Denon shouldn't have the nerve to put out this cable is just beyond me. No one seems to care that Mercedes sells the McClaren AMG SLR for almost $500K? Following the logic... why would anyone buy that car when they can buy a KIA for $15K?

I don't think that is the issue. I think the issue is what claims they make about it. If all they do is provide some specs then I don't have a problem with it either. If, however, they claim better performance with it, then that's a big problem. It is a lie. Lying is still bad in my book. I don't know if they make claims or not but claims would be the issue for me, not whether or not they make the product available.

 

[zhimbo]

Shame, SHAME on you Denon, your trying to make a profit by making a product the free market will either purchase or not in an effort to serve a want or desire from a segment of your customer base.......Shame on you Denon!

Should companies sell "all natural" remedies that don't work, just because people will buy them because of the "all natural" label?

I personally believe any answer other than "no" indicates sociopathy.

Now, it's not exactly the same thing with Denon - the cable works, it's just stupidly overpriced for what it does. But this whole idea that absolute free-market thinking overrules actual scruples and morality sickens me.

Sure, Denon should probably be "allowed" to do this, assuming they make no false claims. But I think it's necessary for knowledgeable people to call "bullshit" on this.

Do you think it's a good product? If so, I'll be glad to sell you a thing or two. If you don't think it's a good product, you should be denouncing it too. If you aren't informed enough to have an opinion - why do you have an opinion?

 

[mtrycrafts]

... You're exactly right. No one is forcing you to buy anything. As a consumer, you, me, everyone, has some responsibility to inform ourselves.

That is true, no force is involved, or intimidation. However, one should expect to get factual info from a reputable company, not marketing fluff and voodoo. As to getting educated, that would be great if we all could do that about products as a whole. Unfortunately, in most cases, it is not possible as you need knowledge beyond most people's reach on may products.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

View attachment 5989

View attachment 5990

I mean C'mon, guys, these cables look like they are worth every pennies.

Look how special it is.

They need to make speaker cables like that, except a little thicker.

What if you could get these cables on sale a year later for only $49?

 

[itschris]

That is true, no force is involved, or intimidation. However, one should expect to get factual info from a reputable company, not marketing fluff and voodoo. As to getting educated, that would be great if we all could do that about products as a whole. Unfortunately, in most cases, it is not possible as you need knowledge beyond most people's reach on may products.

I disagree... see my post above when I simply Googled "should I buy expensive cables."

I maintain that any person who looks at $25 cable and the looks next to it and sees a $450 cable of the same variety... AND BUYS THE $450 cable without any research is not a consumer deserving of protection nor sympathy.

 

[zhimbo]

AND BUYS THE $450 cable without any research is not a consumer deserving of protection nor sympathy.

I agree...but neither is a company that takes advantage of that person deserving of my business.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So this Denon cable is Just for the Denon Link, right?

I guess the only people who would use Denon Link are the Denon SACD/DVD-A group?

Which would put this population in the very minority?

I guess if you are rich enough to spend $14K on a Denon AVP+POA without flinching, $3,800 on a SACD/DVD-A player, and $2K on a BD player, which puts your total to about $20,000, I guess adding on a $500 (2.5% of total purchase) D-Link cable won't hurt too badly.

 

[Pyrrho]

Here's my main issue with Denon and the cables. I know Denon receivers tend to cost more than other mass market vendors (Yammy, Onkyo, Pioneer, Harmon Karmon, Sony, etc.). Hoewver, most would argue that feature wise and (yawn) build quality wise, they are worth it.[emphasis added] The cabling thing puts them under the same cloud where I put Bose and Monster--grossly and unnecessarily overpriced. I then think, "Is this Denon receiver truly worth it, or am I being ripped off like if I buy Bose?" I know I would be better off looking at RBH, Paradigm, AV123, Axiom and others rather than Bose. Monster? Cables Unlimited, Blue Jeans, Monoprice and others all fit my bill better. Denon? With the cables, it makes me think maybe I should just save $300-500 and look towards Yamaha, Onkyo and others? just like I would save $495 buying the Ethernet cable elsewhere.

Unless you have done a poll to back that up, speak for yourself. I think Yamaha is currently a much better value in receivers, at virtually all price points. Basically, Denon takes people's money because they are willing to give it to them. Right now, probably the best value in a receiver is the Yamaha RX-V663. You would have to spend a lot more money on a Denon to get the features of that unit. Unless they get a great sale, I think people who buy Denon are throwing away their money. But of course, they are free to do that if they want to.