Denon AVR-3808CI, Yamaha RX-V3800, or Sony STR-DA5300ES?

[Duffinator]

If Dakmart or anybody else has the Denon 3808 for $1K, J&R will BEAT their prices.

Is this true? I was planning on buying the 3808 from Dakmart.

 

[Seth=L]

And Onkyo's are cheaper.........................

Yeah, but they sound so horrible.

 

[Jeje2]

Yeah, but they sound so horrible.

Amen

Denons are more musical, la la la. Yamaha has a cold and flat sound, blah, blah, blah.

Actually this holds pretty well - Yamaha can produce speach more accurable than Denon (or Onkyo) IMHO, but I also went for Denon this time (had yammu 2600 before) as i just felt more musical.

 

[Duffinator]

Yeah, but they sound so horrible.

That was my early morning attempt at sarcarism.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is this true? I was planning on buying the 3808 from Dakmart.

Here's my story. J&R basically matched the Dakmart price on the Denon DVD-3800BDCI. The funny thing is, Dakmart is REFURBISHED. Another funny thing is, Dakmart did NOT even have any in STOCK.

 

[audioman00]

yamaha = music

denon = ht

 

[renegade87]

After you get it and have used it for a few weeks, post back and let us know your thoughts on it.

Jack

I will Jack. it's due in on Monday (6/9), so I'll be spending Monday night hooking everything up and running the speaker calibration routine.

After that I expect I'll want to watch a movie (Blu-ray on the PS3) to enjoy the differences between DD 5.1 and the DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD audio. Maybe Rambo or National Treasure 2. I dunno.

Onkyo - "They Just sound horrible" I don't know about that, but I gave my Mom a low end Onkyo receiver for Christmas back in 1986. Not only does it still work, but it sounds great (for what it is). She's happy with it and that's all that matters.

As I stated in my last post, I've owned several Onkyo components (receivers, cassette decks, cd players) and have had good experiences with all of them.

If the Denon AVR-4308CI had Realta or Reon HQV video processing then I would've paid the $1735 (approx) for it. Despite the (reportedly) almost useless remote control, unecessarily weak manual, and overcomplicated setup routine.

Yamaha - well, I just wasn't feelin it! At $1599 for the RX-V3800 (I'm sure you can find it for right around $1000+/- if you looked a bit) I should feel "it".

Anyways, I bought the Onkyo TX-NR905 and I have no regrets. Nor do I expect to after I have it setup and working for a while.

We'll see.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Anyways, I bought the Onkyo TX-NR905 and I have no regrets.

I have a feeling you will love the Onkyo 905. I think most people would love own it.

Aside from the heat issues posted by other forum members, I think the Onkyos have awesome specs. I did a comparison once, and even a $300 Onkyo receiver had better specs (THD, Freq. Resp, Crosstalk) than most receivers and pre-pros costing over $2,000. I think that should count for something.

We all prefer different units, but I think you will be very happy with the 905.

 

[PENG]

The Onkyo has the best power specs and it is the only one in th sub 3K price range that has the Reon. I went with the 4308 because I have no intention to use the AVR to upconvert anything. I let my DVD players do the upconversion and let the AVR concentrate on reproducing sound and keeping itself cool while doing it.

 

[Seth=L]

Amen


Actually this holds pretty well - Yamaha can produce speach more accurable than Denon (or Onkyo) IMHO, but I also went for Denon this time (had yammu 2600 before) as i just felt more musical.

I believe you missed my point entirely, but have fun with your bias. So long as you feel you are getting something (deep in your heart/soul) then you will hear it as you want. I will continue to be sarcastic and preach against listener's bias.

 

[Seth=L]

I
Onkyo - "They Just sound horrible" I don't know about that, but I gave my Mom a low end Onkyo receiver for Christmas back in 1986. Not only does it still work, but it sounds great (for what it is). She's happy with it and that's all that matters.

As I stated in my last post, I've owned several Onkyo components (receivers, cassette decks, cd players) and have had good experiences with all of them.

I was being sarcastic, if you read any amount of my posts on other threads regarding certain AVRs you will see I don't buy into this receivers sounding different to a point that it should have any bearing at all on the decision to purchase one over another. Buy a receiver based on amplifier performance, features, usability, and reliability. Don't buy a receiver because some yay hoo tells you one sounds better for music and another tells you Onkyo sounds like crap.

I too have owned a fair share of Onkyo receivers, they have all be very good for the money I spent.

 

[Jeje2]

I believe you missed my point entirely, but have fun with your bias. So long as you feel you are getting something (deep in your heart/soul) then you will hear it as you want. I will continue to be sarcastic and preach against listener's bias.

A year ago I was just like you.
Then I had the possibility to listen at home to some of the "hottest" amp's in this price class - take a look here. (Yamaha 3800, Onkyo 905 + Denon 4308 & 3808) I was very dumbfounded by how different they sounded with my equipment.

So after the one weekend test I had to believe in differences in amps sound.
But feel free to have your opinion - I'm basing my opinion on own experiences, as hopefully you are as well.
(And btw. With my equipment using the Onkyp 905 to listen to Moulin Rouge at higher volumes setted the standard of sound quality & feeling I want in my concrete bunker. Denon & Yamaha just couldn't reach that feelig. - Unfourtanately for me Onkyo sucked with all other material way bad.)

 

[PENG]

A year ago I was just like you.
Then I had the possibility to listen at home to some of the "hottest" amp's in this price class - take a look here. (Yamaha 3800, Onkyo 905 + Denon 4308 & 3808) I was very dumbfounded by how different they sounded with my equipment.

So after the one weekend test I had to believe in differences in amps sound.
But feel free to have your opinion - I'm basing my opinion on own experiences, as hopefully you are as well.
(And btw. With my equipment using the Onkyp 905 to listen to Moulin Rouge at higher volumes setted the standard of sound quality & feeling I want in my concrete bunker. Denon & Yamaha just couldn't reach that feelig. - Unfourtanately for me Onkyo sucked with all other material way bad.)

I read your interesting post a while back. I went ahead and bought the Denon but I wasn't influenced by your post. My decision was based on the following:

1. Noise - I cannot stand any audible hums and hiss as I listen to classical music.
2. Reliability - Based on my own experience as well as reading about others on various forums.
3. Features - I just love the WIFI thing.
4. Power - The only AVRs in the <$3K range that beats the Denon are the Onkyo/Integra ones.
5. Heat - Just warm, never hot.
5. Look - I don't like the look of the Onkyo/Integra.

Something interesting about your listening experience though, you mentioned the Denon worked well with all material, but not the Onkyo. Yet you said the Onkyo and Chicago was good but not with other material. That, to me, indicates your perceived differences in sound might have been due to not conducting a controlled comparison test. The thing is, if you simply switched your AVRs around in turns, and listened to different material in different times, your perception would have been influenced by many factors including even you mood, state of mind at the time, among other things.

I did appreciate your post back then, it was very informative and I did pay attention to things you mentioned, except for the difference in sound part as I do not believe in things like how one amp sound different in terms of "space" and I don't understand how one amp would sound better but only if you crank the volume up really loud etc. Thanks again (for the AVS post).

 

[Jeje2]

That, to me, indicates your perceived differences in sound might have been due to not conducting a controlled comparison test. The thing is, if you simply switched your AVRs around in turns, and listened to different material in different times, your perception would have been influenced by many factors including even you mood, state of mind at the time, among other things.

Yes - you might be completely right.
I only tuned the amp's with their internal calibration programs.
(Didn't have time, nor have the competence, to do proper calibration)
(Had the amp's home for testing from Saturday ca. 4pm to Sunday evening - as had to return on Monday morning)

But, as have done auto calibration several times on my old yammu 2600 and my new denon 3808 - I do still like Denon's sound better, or then just Audessey is that much better. (But that said - Yammu must have the best internal EQ I've seen to date. You can really tune it a lot - Onkyo and Denon are far off behind with their EQ's. The 2600 had a poor EQ compared to 3800, but I still miss the EQ from my old 2600 - 3808 can't even match the 2600 amp's EQ)


Oh- I'm glad you didn't make any decisions based on my review. (I'm not competent enough to give any - can only try to give ideas into what one might look at in both good&bad)

 

[renegade87]

I was being sarcastic, if you read any amount of my posts on other threads regarding certain AVRs you will see I don't buy into this receivers sounding different to a point that it should have any bearing at all on the decision to purchase one over another. Buy a receiver based on amplifier performance, features, usability, and reliability. Don't buy a receiver because some yay hoo tells you one sounds better for music and another tells you Onkyo sounds like crap.

I too have owned a fair share of Onkyo receivers, they have all be very good for the money I spent.

Seth=L,

It's all good Dude. I wasn't so much responding to your post specifically, but a general sense I was getting from many posts here and on other forums. To be honest, pretty much all the competitors in the $1500 - $2500 price range have solid offerings. It's like you said above "amplifier performance, features, usability, and reliability". I might add user friendliness to that list. But, beyond that I couldn't agree more.

AcuDefTechGuy,

Thanks Dude. I too am sure I will be very happy with it. The heat issues are well documented all over the web. That's ok. I'm prepared for that. I'm probably not going to need to push it very hard anyways.

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to audition the 905 as nobody had it in my immediate area and I had no time for a road trip to hear a receiver. I have heard the Denon 3808 and 4308 however (through Def Tech speakers no less) and was tempted to get the 3808 as I stated in the original post.

Guys,

We all have our preferences. I was a diehard Chevy guy for years. Then I bought my 1st Toyota (Solara). Now, I'll never go back to an American car again. Whether it's Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Sony or whatever. It's your hard earned money$. If you got what you wanted and you're happy with your purchase... well, that's really all that matters isn't it?

P.S. I just bought a new Avalon last week. Very happy am I.

 

[Seth=L]

Jeje2,

Two years ago I was like you.
I used to believe in snake oil and amplifiers sounding different. I argued about it quite a bit to the point where I got a little education (perhaps you will as well).

I have owned and used many AVRs in my home, if receivers sound different the difference is very minute to the point of being irrelevant compared to the difference in sound when you choose speakers, arrange speakers, and setup your receiver to fit your needs/tastes.

 

[Seth=L]

I had Yamaha rx-v2700 last 6 months and replaced with Denon avr-987. Actually for Movie I pick Yamaha . And if you into music Denon is the top choice. Stay away from Onkyo. I am not really impress with them. Goodluck bro.

Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but there is no way you could say if there is any difference between one AVR or another in terms of sound when your reference speakers are Bose.

 

[Jeje2]

I have owned and used many AVRs in my home, if receivers sound different the difference is very minute to the point of being irrelevant compared to the difference in sound when you choose speakers, arrange speakers, and setup your receiver to fit your needs/tastes.

Of course the speakers are the most important part. - Have I said anything else? (Finding speakers for my concrete bunker was a pain in the .... - IIRC 1½years ago tried 7 different speaker models at home before finding one that even remotely worked - Mission elegante e8-series. The reflections from walls are just horrible - they still are.)

I have just stated that I've been able to notice also a difference in amp's - tried with my setup different amp's and got noticeably different output. (And no - I still don't believe in cable differences. Tried home with one set, but couldn't hear any real change to my 4 mm² basic cable.)


One example of different amp behavior comes to my mind immediately.
Chigaco - first number when Zeta-Jones lies down on the piano, the paino player says something to her. With Denon (and Onkyo) I'm able to hear only the end "...use me". But with yammu (both my old 2600 and tested 3800) I was able to hear the first pronunciation as well "Excuse me" (Or whatever he now says - my memory fails me constantly)

 

[PENG]

One example of different amp behavior comes to my mind immediately.
Chigaco - first number when Zeta-Jones lies down on the piano, the paino player says something to her. With Denon (and Onkyo) I'm able to hear only the end "...use me". But with yammu (both my old 2600 and tested 3800) I was able to hear the first pronunciation as well "Excuse me" (Or whatever he now says - my memory fails me constantly)

I can see where you are coming from. In terms of DSP I do think there are differences between AVRs. There is however, as Seth said, only minute difference (if audible at all) in the actual sound quality if you listen in "pure direct" mode. I find the 4308 sound the same as the 3805 in Stereo, direct, and pure direct mode. The 4308 does seems to do a little better in processing the center channel informaton.

 

[omarbec]

I will go for the Denon. Traditionally better sound and quality.