GAS Prices

[MinusTheBear]

People will be complaining about the price of gas no matter what, but now I think it is a legitimate concern. IMO, the united states is already at the beginning of a recession. The massive defecit, weak currency are just making matters worse. If you look at the trend gas prices have risen as the dollar has fallen.

 

[Halon451]

It should be noted to some small detail that the current state of fuel prices affects mass transit as well, the buses all operate on gasoline, and most of them have horrendous MPG - something on the order of 8 miles to a gallon or less. Sure, it's easy to give up our cars in exchange for mass transit, but the folks who would really be able to benefit from this (i.e., inner city residents) are already for the most part not well off financially to begin with. When the rates for mass transit start climbing, what then? This affects everything, not just the 22 gallon tank SUV owners and big 4x4 trucks.

Those of us in the suburbs (at least me anyway) have no real practical solution with any form of mass transit - the one or two lines that run out here don't go anywhere near where I need to be. There are no monorails where I live.

This is only the start - yeah, sure... we as Americans should not lead such a gluttonous lifestyle, and I hate the big oversized pickup truck drivers as much as anyone else on the road, but the real focus here is the rear naked choke hold OPEC has on our economy, and we're on the verge of tapping out. And STILL we haven't come to our senses enough to do what needs to be done in the interim period and beef up supply from our own resources to bridge the gap between now and non-oil dependent technologies.

All this assigning blame and finger pointing is useless!!! The price at the pump continues to rise no matter who we argue is at fault, so when are we going to get our collective heads out of our sphincters and do something about it?

 

[chadnliz]

Didn't you just mention driving an Envoy a day or two ago? So "death of big trucks are cool", eh?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44584&highlight=envoy

3rd/4th post down...

I drive an Envoy because of a disability that makes entering and exiting a car very difficult or impossible.

 

[trnqk7]

I drive an Envoy because of a disability that makes entering and exiting a car very difficult or impossible.

Understood-but there are more fuel efficient vehicles that are handicap accessible. Whether it be a 4 cyl. van or at least a hybrid SUV. I think it's silly to praise big suv's going out of style when you still are using one of the largest, most gas guzzling, yourself. Disability or not, there are other options that would have been more environmentally conscious.

 

[MUDSHARK]

Envoy is hardly one of the largest fuel inefficient vehicles. The company has one for one of the directors and fuel mileage appears to be in the 18-19 range not greatly below the 21-22 of smaller vehicles. Having a handicapped son my wife drives a Montana (soon to be traded in). I intend to see if an Escape or Patriot is high enough to permit easy entry for our son. Of course, if it drives like a truck the wife will not like it.

 

[10010011]

Those of us in the suburbs (at least me anyway) have no real practical solution with any form of mass transit - the one or two lines that run out here don't go anywhere near where I need to be. There are no monorails where I live.

I think the days of living in the 'burbs and driving to the city to work are going to come to an end.

I guess this is one way to stop urban sprawl.

BTW: The Chevron I passed on my way to work today has raised it's prices to $4.15, $4.27, and $4.35.

 

[trnqk7]

I don't consider 18-19mpg good, but to each their own. I get 27mpg or higher though (albeit not in a vehicle a handicapped person could use). I'm not knocking chadnliz for driving the envoy necessarily (he apparently needs a vehicle with a certain "height" or something to it)-more that he went on about it's so good that gas guzzlers are going out of style, but he is still using one, for whatever reason. Perhaps the Envoy is not the "worst", but I still don't consider it "good" either. And, for the money one of those runs, there are other SUVs with hybrid techology available that would improve economy and most likely (not guaranteeing) have the accessibility he says he needs.

 

[Halon451]

I think the days of living in the 'burbs and driving to the city to work are going to come to an end.

It already has for me - I live in the 'burbs and work in the 'burbs - fortunately my office is located not far from my home - last job was clear across downtown traffic, a good hour to an hour and a half to get to and from each day. Thank god I left there before the fuel prices shot through the roof!!

Anyway, point being - mass transit for me is not even remotely an option. The upside of it is that I have a fifteen minute commute every day, and use a lot less of the gas I keep in my tank - on the weekends, we take my wife's car for our around town driving as it is smaller and much more fuel efficient than mine.

 

[jinjuku]

$4.29/gallon last night when I filled up. Are we going to over $5.00 a gallon by summer time?

Uh, yes...

 

[jinjuku]

It should be noted to some small detail that the current state of fuel prices affects mass transit as well, the buses all operate on gasoline, and most of them have horrendous MPG - something on the order of 8 miles to a gallon or less. Sure, it's easy to give up our cars in exchange for mass transit, but the folks who would really be able to benefit from this (i.e., inner city residents) are already for the most part not well off financially to begin with. When the rates for mass transit start climbing, what then? This affects everything, not just the 22 gallon tank SUV owners and big 4x4 trucks.

8 MPG with one passenger vs 8 MPG with 18 passengers is a whole different ball game.

The real problem is handling what is going to be a huge influx of ridership. The number of routes, the number of buses, the facilities (room, tools, mechanics) to maintain all that just aren't there.

We never designed cities in the US to work around mass transit. I have spent time in England, France, and Japan. You can get to anywhere you need by bus/train/subway. It may not be as fast or convenient as a car but you do get around relatively quick.

 

[trnqk7]

8 MPG with one passenger vs 8 MPG with 18 passengers is a whole different ball game.

The real problem is handling what is going to be a huge influx of ridership. The number of routes, the number of buses, the facilities (room, tools, mechanics) to maintain all that just aren't there.

We never designed cities in the US to work around mass transit. I have spent time in England, France, and Japan. You can get to anywhere you need by bus/train/subway. It may not be as fast or convenient as a car but you do get around relatively quick.

Very true, public transit must mainly be looked at in customers served per gallon, IMO, rather than mpg for the transport. While it'd be great if they got 20-30mpg on a bus AND delivered all their passengers, I'm not sure this is possible with most of the buses we have available today.

 

[billy p]

1.33/L right now. Put 38 liters in the civic and it was $50. Why are you guys complaining? If you can't afford to run something, don't own it. I can't afford to run a house, that's why I live at home.

SheepStar

Heh.. maybe thats why you can afford the Civic because your still living at home. I will agree with you in relation to our neighbors due south. They have nothing to complain about when comparing gas prices with the rest of the world. We're already above $5.00/ gallon.

 

[mouettus]

Heh.. maybe thats why you can afford the Civic because your still living at home. I will agree with you in relation to our neighbors due south. They have nothing to complain about when comparing gas prices with the rest of the world. We're already above $5.00/ gallon.

It's not only the actual price they are paying for gaz vs Canada the problem. It's just that, like us, they were used to pay a certain reasonable amount of money into transportation and that amount now is going out of control and is eating disposable outcome that was at hand for lets say... audio stuff!

 

[Halon451]

8 MPG with one passenger vs 8 MPG with 18 passengers is a whole different ball game.

The real problem is handling what is going to be a huge influx of ridership. The number of routes, the number of buses, the facilities (room, tools, mechanics) to maintain all that just aren't there.

We never designed cities in the US to work around mass transit. I have spent time in England, France, and Japan. You can get to anywhere you need by bus/train/subway. It may not be as fast or convenient as a car but you do get around relatively quick.

I'll certainly give you that, and even also add that there are far fewer buses on the road than cars and trucks, however my point was to illustrate not the passenger/gallon ratio, but the fact that these vehicles require a lot of fuel to run, so they are being hit that much harder by the current cost crunch, therefore directly translating into higher fare rates which are going to ultimately affect those who utilize this system the most - inner city dwellers already living at or below the poverty line.

And just where is this huge influx going to come from? Maybe in certain areas that mass transit serves (urban professional environment downtown highrises or something - where people can walk or ride a bike to work if they wish); possibly, I don't know - I don't see it happening that way. Like you said, our cities and outlying areas were equipped with mass transit systems almost as an afterthought - pitiful in comparison to some of the cities I have visited overseas, where a person like me could actually make use of the system if I had the intention of doing so. Mass transit, at least in my city is a very confined service limited only to a handful of the overall population.

 

[jinjuku]

I'll certainly give you that, and even also add that there are far fewer buses on the road than cars and trucks, however my point was to illustrate not the passenger/gallon ratio, but the fact that these vehicles require a lot of fuel to run, so they are being hit that much harder by the current cost crunch, therefore directly translating into higher fare rates which are going to ultimately affect those who utilize this system the most - inner city dwellers already living at or below the poverty

What I think may happen is since the buses are under utilized that they will gain a certain efficiency in passenger to gallon ratio since the buses capacity will start maxing out.

If you have a 30 passenger bus with only 50% utilization (15 passengers) at $2/gallon, what is $4/gallon at 30 passengers?

 

[Halon451]

If you have a 30 passenger bus with only 50% utilization (15 passengers) at $2/gallon, what is $4/gallon at 30 passengers?

One less bus on the road.

 

[jinjuku]

One less bus on the road.

Lol. True, True.

I am partially insulated from all of this. I am self employed and my commute is from the coffee pot to the basement office (a door laying across two wire racks).

So I hardly drive my 99 Altima which has been paid off for years and runs great. I fill up on average about every six weeks. My insurance is dirt cheap. I see my car easily getting another 4 years or more. I am simply loving not having all the associated costs. Plus when I do drive it, if I keep it under or at 65 MPH, I get north of 33 miles to the gallon. If I had the patience to do 55MPH and piss everyone off on the highway I am sure I would see close to 35 or better.

Currently my wife works at U Mich. The university buses are free. They run on a 10 minute schedule from 6AM-7PM then 20 minute rotation till I believe 1AM. Takes her ~10 minutes to get to work.

 

[Halon451]

Lol. True, True.

I am partially insulated from all of this. I am self employed and my commute is from the coffee pot to the basement office (a door laying across two wire racks).

So I hardly drive my 99 Altima which has been paid off for years and runs great. I fill up on average about every six weeks. My insurance is dirt cheap. I see my car easily getting another 4 years or more. I am simply loving not having all the associated costs. Plus when I do drive it, if I keep it under or at 65 MPH, I get north of 33 miles to the gallon. If I had the patience to do 55MPH and piss everyone off on the highway I am sure I would see close to 35 or better.

Currently my wife works at U Mich. The university buses are free. They run on a 10 minute schedule from 6AM-7PM then 20 minute rotation till I believe 1AM. Takes her ~10 minutes to get to work.

Man, it doesn't get any better than that - I sure wish I was in your shoes, and probably a thousand other folks do too. However, the majority of the population is of course much less insulated as you call it, they (we) are at the mercy of those with their hands on the controls of this economy - and OPEC. While my wife and I are not rich by any means, we're comfortable enough that the current prices are mostly a psychological annoyance; sure we can afford it, but it is kind of eating into a bit of our play money (and A/V funds too!!). But the issue is not the current weather, it's the forecast, if you know what I mean. Everyone lives within a certain threshold of tolerance whether it's realized or not. Perhaps a perpetual chain of events has already been put in motion - scary to think, when you factor in the impact on all areas of the economy - trade, shipping, food, etc.

I'm no economist, but hell - even a dog can sniff a storm brewing long before it happens.

 

[jinjuku]

Man, it doesn't get any better than that - I sure wish I was in your shoes, and probably a thousand other folks do too

I purposefully held back on the kicker in all of that: When I drive, it is for business. So I get $0.485/mile write off on my taxes when I drive.

So for every gallon of gas at 33MPG, I get to write off $16.005 from my taxable income. Hows that for a kick in the pants? Also I have a drive charge that is based on mileage that I pass on to the customer.

 

[Halon451]

I purposefully held back on the kicker in all of that: When I drive, it is for business. So I get $0.485/mile write off on my taxes when I drive.

So for every gallon of gas at 33MPG, I get to write off $16.005 from my taxable income. Hows that for a kick in the pants? Also I have a drive charge that is based on mileage that I pass on to the customer.

Envy - pure envy. Hey, the IRS mileage rates are actually up to $.505/mile, I know this as most of my own employees work on the road and are reimbursed for their travels. I had to re-write the templates for half a dozen contracts when the new rates went into effect - you could be entitled to even more than what you currently get!