A Civil Discourse on Exotic Cables

[Midcow2]

Exotic cables are a waste of money

You have impedance.
You have some noise shielding.
Physical electrcial properties.


And that is about it !

===================

You need a unbiased scientific review not a self-fullfilling prophesey.

Gee here are some $100 dolalr cbles and here are some $2,500. First listen to the exact same systme through the $100 cables nad then listen to the exact same system over the $2,500 cables. Which sounds better? We gee the $2,500 cost more so the must sound better. If the systmes are know ahead of time the $2,500 WILL ALWAYS win!

=========

Do it scientifically like the Pepsi vesus Coke taste test. Blindgfold the participants or otherwise keep the cable specs from them. The results will be closer to 50/50 which is what you would expect in a normally probablity distribution and the hypothesis that exotic cables are better fails.

==========

Now this is not true is you go for really really cheap cables or even thin two wire small connectors.

You need a reasonable cable with capactiance, resistance, inductance and shielding regulated/controlled and decent connectors; actually gold is only slightly more conductive than brass or copper.

If you pay more than a couple of dollars per foot max, you are throwing money away!!!

 

[stratman]

Do it scientifically like the Pepsi vesus Coke taste test. QUOTE]

Well, I don't know about Coke/Pepsi comparison. You see, they print in very small letters at the bottom of the screen : "those with a preference," I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi all day long, Pepsi is much sweeter than Coke, If I have to drink either I go with Coke, really I'd rather have a bottle of 1997 Turley or Martinelli.

 

[fblittle]

McIntosh's Roger Russell's take on high end Cables

Here is the advise of one of the experts in the field of this debate. This article that he writes covers all the aspects of this conversation. Read it if you have the time. The blind test is covered well in his article. As well as McIntosh's opinion. Geoff and his companions used McIntosh equipment for their test. Only a A/B blind test with a switch will work see the article.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
The article is called "Speaker Wire, A History"

 

[martykuest]

Went back and read a number of the Stereophile reviews of various cables and interconnects.

Find it amazing how detailed and enthused so many of the reviewers actually were about the various products. Could these reviewers be correct in the differences and improvements they claim to hear? Of course, anything is possible.

Since the cost of most of the cables reveiwed in Stereophile exceed the cost of my system, I will probably never know. And that is okay.

Of course, the proof is in the listening and that is as it should be. I remember the early cd reproduction which was not particularly appealing. Yet, it was consistently described as being techincally accurate, more accurate than analog reproduction and therefore superior.

In the scheme of things, though, is an expensive cable or interconnect any different than an expensive car or watch? Probably not. And the owners of any premium product will naturally be inclined to sing its praises.

Do the people who can afford these luxury items need to be protected from themselves? Probably not.

I must say though, that this has been very interesting.

 

[majorloser]

Here is the advise of one of the experts in the field of this debate. This article that he writes covers all the aspects of this conversation. Read it if you have the time. The blind test is covered well in his article. As well as McIntosh's opinion. Geoff and his companions used McIntosh equipment for their test. Only a A/B blind test with a switch will work see the article.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
The article is called "Speaker Wire, A History"

Nice article!

 

[Alex2507]

Went back and read a number of the Stereophile reviews of various cables and interconnects.
.

Here is AH Forum Members Review of Stereophile:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43732

 

[fmw]

Of course, the proof is in the listening and that is as it should be.

Be careful. The only proof is in the bias controlled listening test. You can't trust your ears. Sorry.

 

[Alex2507]

Be careful. The only proof is in the bias controlled listening test. You can't trust your ears. Sorry.

To support your statement I want to say that a book I picked up called The Car Stereo Cookbook says that after people get accustomed to listening to distortion caused by weak amps turned up too high, they miss it when they hear good amps putting out clean power to speakers.

So while you really can't trust your ears due to placebo effect, I think it's safe to say that once quality has been identified through bias controlled listening tests and you grow accustomed to it, you can then to one degree or another evaluate sound quality. A kind of practice, practice, practice philosophy for the listener.

 

[mr-ben]

Do it scientifically like the Pepsi vesus Coke taste test.

Well, I don't know about Coke/Pepsi comparison. You see, they print in very small letters at the bottom of the screen : "those with a preference," I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi all day long, Pepsi is much sweeter than Coke, If I have to drink either I go with Coke, really I'd rather have a bottle of 1997 Turley or Martinelli.

I once read that people have a natural tendency to prefer the sweeter of two foods when given a small amount. So the Pepsi challenge is based on a small amount - a taste test - and being sweeter, Pepsi comes out ahead. If the taste test is based on drinking the whole can, the sweetness puts Pepsi at a disadvantage, and more prefer Coke.

I'm sure we can find similarities for audio too - the loudness war for example. Maybe it works for cables too?

 

[TLS Guy]

I once read that people have a natural tendency to prefer the sweeter of two foods when given a small amount. So the Pepsi challenge is based on a small amount - a taste test - and being sweeter, Pepsi comes out ahead. If the taste test is based on drinking the whole can, the sweetness puts Pepsi at a disadvantage, and more prefer Coke.

I'm sure we can find similarities for audio too - the loudness war for example. Maybe it works for cables too?

No! My friend. "Wire is wire." (The late Peter Walker. OBE)

 

[fmw]

I'm sure we can find similarities for audio too - the loudness war for example. Maybe it works for cables too?

Nope. Not true.

 

[majorloser]

But I really do like Pepsi better

 

[ChunkyDark]

I used to work at CC and we did something similar on some slow days.
We hooked up Mon$ter and some cheap thin generic cables. You could easily tell the picture quality difference looking at them side by side. It worked so well the managers had us keep it set up and we sold the crap out of that crap and it made me a lot of money.
So when I come home and hook up the Mon$ter cable to our (progressive scan!) DVD my girlfriend says "you spent how much on a cable?!"
I coolly announce "just watch this babe" in my best slick sales-person voice and proceeded to swap out the cables so she could be bedazzled by my AV magic.

Not an effing difference.

Now if you've ever been in a CC/Bestbuy you know there are a brazilian number of TVs and other misc gizmos running, our apartment not so much. Standing there staring at the cables in my hands while my girlfriend stalks off muttering angry Freudian analysis I had my epiphany.
The cables I had made for almost free from my packrat box-o-tech (and probably drunk) were just as good as the crazy expensive professionally designed and meticulously crafted monster cable.
Why? I used some ridiculously thick cable, cause it’s what I had, and the EMF in our apartment was 1000th that of the showroom.

Oh well at least Mon$ter helped fund my girlfriends education and she is now teaching students about Freud, and I troll the intertubes educating people against Mon$ter

 

[Audioholics]

That was a great, entertaining story. A lot of people don't realize how much adequate gauge and shielding takes care of most issues.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Oh well at least Mon$ter helped fund my girlfriends education and she is now teaching students about Freud, and I troll the intertubes educating people against Mon$ter

What a guy, paying the schooling for your girfrined.
Better make her your wife so you benefit from that investement as well

 

[Midcow2]

That was a great, entertaining story. A lot of people don't realize how much adequate gauge and shielding takes care of most issues.

Well stated in a clear an succinct manner. I completely agree!

 

[ChunkyDark]

What a guy, paying the schooling for your girfrined.
Better make her your wife so you benefit from that investement as well

Yup, girlfriend 4.0 has been upgraded to wife 1.0