No sound from my Dali suite 1.2 sub

[bilgirami]

Guys, just bought and hooked up my Dali suite 1.2 sub with my new Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Until this point I was running my Axioms without a sub. After being done with running a monster THX sub cable to LFE input of the sub from my AVR's pre out for sub, turning the sub on in AVR settings, and setting the cross over at 80Hz. All I am getting from my sub is a very very muffled, barely audible sound (which cant be called bass) even with the sub volume turned on to max, frequency (at subwoofer) turned to max and playing my Yamaha at -5dB (can try higher than that but my neighbours may not like it because the rest of the speakers are certainly doing their job). Seems to me that the AVR is doing its job because the sub goes from 'standby' to 'on' which tells me that my AVR is sending LFE signal to the sub, but there is something going on with the sub. Tried unplugging/plugging the sub, pushed the off/stndby/on button to on etc., but no luck. Does anyone have any ideas. I am planning on taking my sub and AVR to a friends place later today to check out if it is an AVR issue or a sub issue but any ideas will be appreciated.

 

[Midcow2]

Just curious ...

Can you go back to the dealer and check-out? From what you said it sounds like it most likely is a sub problem.

Now the curious part? Why did you choose the Dali Suite S 1.2 ? Did you consider a SVS or Hsu sub instead? If i were you and the you could take it back , I would do so and look at getting a SVS or Hsu both have excellent subs in the $400-$1600 range.

Good luck!

 

[bilgirami]

Can you go back to the dealer and check-out? From what you said it sounds like it most likely is a sub problem.

Now the curious part? Why did you choose the Dali Suite S 1.2 ? Did you consider a SVS or Hsu sub instead? If i were you and the you could take it back , I would do so and look at getting a SVS or Hsu both have excellent subs in the $400-$1600 range.

Good luck!

..well, fell for an apparently sweet deal. The seller said it is brand new in a box and has never been opened. Dali is a decent brand so I thought I might be able to make do until the MFW-15 is available, but seems like I may have just sent a few hundred dollars down the drain.. .

 

[TLS Guy]

Guys, just bought and hooked up my Dali suite 1.2 sub with my new Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Until this point I was running my Axioms without a sub. After being done with running a monster THX sub cable to LFE input of the sub from my AVR's pre out for sub, turning the sub on in AVR settings, and setting the cross over at 80Hz. All I am getting from my sub is a very very muffled, barely audible sound (which cant be called bass) even with the sub volume turned on to max, frequency (at subwoofer) turned to max and playing my Yamaha at -5dB (can try higher than that but my neighbours may not like it because the rest of the speakers are certainly doing their job). Seems to me that the AVR is doing its job because the sub goes from 'standby' to 'on' which tells me that my AVR is sending LFE signal to the sub, but there is something going on with the sub. Tried unplugging/plugging the sub, pushed the off/stndby/on button to on etc., but no luck. Does anyone have any ideas. I am planning on taking my sub and AVR to a friends place later today to check out if it is an AVR issue or a sub issue but any ideas will be appreciated.

Again be careful of European subs. Your sub is 3 db down at at 29 Hz. It is sealed, so roll off is 12 db per octave, so it will be 6 db down around 27 Hz and 12 db down at 18 Hz. Now a sealed speaker does not couple like a ported one and the total system Q is usually lower. This makes the bass much more subtle, and less obvious. What does it sound like at the listening position, with the sub in? What model are your axiom mains and their F3?

Make sure you have phased the sub correctly. If it is out of phase with your mains, you will have less bass. Put on a test disc with your mains on large and play a tone just above the F3 of you mains, and phase the sub for the greatest output.

You have to remember that relatively few European houses are free standing. The big ported American subs talked about on these forums generate calls to the police in Europe, and the speaker manufacturers have to design accordingly.

You are not the first member to post this query after purchasing a European sub. Recently a member placed an almost identical post about an Elac sub he had just purchased.

 

[Midcow2]

Integra 7.8 very nice AVR but ...upconvert only changes format.

... if you read the manual it only converts from HDMI input to HDMI output.

page 12:
HDMI IN 1–3 and OUT
HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) connections
carry digital audio and digital video.
The HDMI inputs are for connecting components
with an HDMI output, such as a DVD player, DVD
recorder, or DVR (digital video recorder). They’re
assignable, which means you can assign each one to
an input selector to suit your setup. See “HDMI
Input Setup” on page 46.
The HDMI output is for connecting a TV or projector
with an HDMI input.


On page 27 the "upconverting" only changes the format, not the resolution.
with HDMI=Yes
Video Connection Formats
Video equipment can be connected to the AV receiver by using any one of the following video connection formats:
composite video, S-Video, component video, or HDMI, the latter offering the best picture quality.
The AV receiver can upconvert and downconvert between video formats, depending on the HDMI Monitor setting,
which generally determines whether video signals are upconverted for the component video output or the HDMI output.
For optimal video performance, THX recommends that video signals pass through the system without upconversion
(e.g., component video input through to component video output). It’s also recommended that you set the
Immediate Display preference to Off (page 107).

It does convert from component input to HDMI but does not upconvert the resolution. So 480p component will output 480p HDMI.

The Integra 7.8 is really and A receiver the V is more of an after thought! it is curious that their online manual has mark-up changes (page 3) made 4/27/2007 and is not a final copy!. The audio settings are excelelnt, but hte video are okay but not outstanding.

 

[trnqk7]

Huh? Wrong thread I think MidCow...

 

[Seth=L]

Huh? Wrong thread I think MidCow...

I'd say so.

 

[Midcow2]

LOL sorry

Huh? Wrong thread I think MidCow...

LOL sorry

 

[bilgirami]

Again be careful of European subs. Your sub is 3 db down at at 29 Hz. It is sealed, so roll off is 12 db per octave, so it will be 6 db down around 27 Hz and 12 db down at 18 Hz. Now a sealed speaker does not couple like a ported one and the total system Q is usually lower. This makes the bass much more subtle, and less obvious. What does it sound like at the listening position, with the sub in? What model are your axiom mains and their F3?

Make sure you have phased the sub correctly. If it is out of phase with your mains, you will have less bass. Put on a test disc with your mains on large and play a tone just above the F3 of you mains, and phase the sub for the greatest output.

You have to remember that relatively few European houses are free standing. The big ported American subs talked about on these forums generate calls to the police in Europe, and the speaker manufacturers have to design accordingly.

You are not the first member to post this query after purchasing a European sub. Recently a member placed an almost identical post about an Elac sub he had just purchased.

Hey TLS Guy,
Nopes, it isnt even putting that much out. At -10 db, I would at least expect the woofer to put something out if I put my ear next to the grill , it is just a very very low muffled sound, there is something there but not something that can be caused base. A friend of mine will bring his SPL meter later in the day to see what the heck this sub is up to.
Not quite sure what you meant by F3. I have axiom M60s as mains, VP150 center and QS8 surrounds, all set as 'small' in my AVR setting, trying to send all the bass to the sub.

 

[TLS Guy]

..well, fell for an apparently sweet deal. The seller said it is brand new in a box and has never been opened. Dali is a decent brand so I thought I might be able to make do until the MFW-15 is available, but seems like I may have just sent a few hundred dollars down the drain.. .

It is far too soon to say your dollars are down the drain!

You must phase the sub correctly, I can't overemphasize this enough. Once you can be certain of phase play a CD with a lot of bass output, and turn up the sub until the sound is properly balanced at the listening position.

A sub like that you likely will NOT hear when you are up close to it. There is little musical content below 60 Hz any way, except for Hollywood's guns and explosions on the LFE channel boosted 20 db.

Now take these subs in my walk out level of our home. http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/4664219_yJtdJ#275519629_L84Qf This is a big space and the venerable KEF B139 drivers were not filling the space with quite adequate bass. So I got out those subs, I originally built to splice with my NFM-1s. Now they are isobarik coupled cavity second order subs Qt 0.5, each containing two 12 inch woofers. The F3 is 27 Hz 12 db per octave roll off, similar to yours.

Now if you are near the subs you can not detect any sound from them at all.

However if you play music with bass content and switch them on and off it is night and day.

I think you are expecting to hear lots of sound up close. You need to see the effect of the sub when properly set up at the listening position. The sound is going to be different from B4 ported tuning, that is familiar to a lot of people on these forums. However a lot of people will prefer your B2, and you might if you don't jump to conclusions. If it is big splashy, high Qt tuning, bass you want, then they are not the subs for you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey TLS Guy,
Nopes, it isnt even putting that much out. At -10 db, I would at least expect the woofer to put something out if I put my ear next to the grill , it is just a very very low muffled sound, there is something there but not something that can be caused base. A friend of mine will bring his SPL meter later in the day to see what the heck this sub is up to.
Not quite sure what you meant by F3. I have axiom M60s as mains, VP150 center and QS8 surrounds, all set as 'small' in my AVR setting, trying to send all the bass to the sub.

That type of sub with your speakers will work best as a bass extension device. The F3 of your speakers is 37 Hz 24 db per octave roll off. So that sub will give you about another half octave bass extension when used with those speakers. Those speakers are quite powerful enough to be set to large. Set your front left and right at least to large. Start by cutting the sub in at 80 Hz. Play a tone at 40 to 50 Hz. If you don't have a disc with tones play music with a heavy bass content, and set the phase for the greatest bass output, with mains and sub running, at the listening position. Then advance the sub volume until you have the bass balance you want. Then try cutting the sub in at 60 Hz and see which setting sounds best.

Why are you setting the sub volume at -10 db, and not starting at 0db?

 

[AVRat]

I suggest you run the receiver’s test tone from the speaker level menu (pgs 87,88) for starters to make sure you’re getting decent output.

 

[TLS Guy]

I suggest you run the receiver’s test tone from the speaker level menu (pgs 87,88) for starters to make sure you’re getting decent output.

Can he run a bass test tone to his sub and mains at the same time, with that receiver? If he can that will be perfect for him to phase his sub. He seems to have everything turned down which does not help. If I understand him correctly then he is -5db on his receiver output and -10 db on his sub. He should start with everything at 0 db and go from there. Then he can advance to plus db points as need arises. I can't imagine much output with those settings.

 

[trnqk7]

It could just be the scale his receiver uses TLS Guy. I have my Denon turn on at -35dB, and generally listen at -25dB or -20dB for movies. The scale can usually be changed from "relative" to "absolute" which will give you positive numbers. Not sure, but this could be the discrepancy...

 

[TLS Guy]

It could just be the scale his receiver uses TLS Guy. I have my Denon turn on at -35dB, and generally listen at -25dB or -20dB for movies. The scale can usually be changed from "relative" to "absolute" which will give you positive numbers. Not sure, but this could be the discrepancy...

That's useful info, thanks. My Rotel just has one scale. At 0 db everything gets the same output. That seems to make the most sense to me.

 

[AVRat]

Can he run a bass test tone to his sub and mains at the same time, with that receiver?

No, it won't, I don't know of any receiver that does. But using the test tone for the sub output, he should be able to adjust the sub's and receiver's gain levels to see if the sub is working properly.

 

[TLS Guy]

No, it won't, I don't know of any receiver that does. But using the test tone for the sub output, he should be able to adjust the sub's and receiver's gain levels to see if the sub is working properly.

Yes, he should be able to shed some light on the problem with that. What about the db scale on that receiver, that is an issue? Is it absolute or other wise, and are there choices? I have a feeling he may no be sending much signal to his sub. The British press give this sub reasonable reviews. However British and American tastes in the character of bass are quite different.

 

[AVRat]

It could just be the scale his receiver uses TLS Guy. I have my Denon turn on at -35dB, and generally listen at -25dB or -20dB for movies. The scale can usually be changed from "relative" to "absolute" which will give you positive numbers. Not sure, but this could be the discrepancy...

If I'm not mistaken, only Onkyo offers that feature. His mention of -5 and -10 I believe only relates to the master volume.

 

[trnqk7]

Eh, could be. I owned an Onkyo before my Denon, so that could explain it. It is worth mentioning though as even though other brands may not let you "flip" back and forth between the scales, I would imagine it still works the same way. Onkyo just gives those people who want to see positive numbers, a positive number.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey TLS Guy,
Nopes, it isnt even putting that much out. At -10 db, I would at least expect the woofer to put something out if I put my ear next to the grill , it is just a very very low muffled sound, there is something there but not something that can be caused base. A friend of mine will bring his SPL meter later in the day to see what the heck this sub is up to.
Not quite sure what you meant by F3. I have axiom M60s as mains, VP150 center and QS8 surrounds, all set as 'small' in my AVR setting, trying to send all the bass to the sub.

So what have you found out? It is important so we can further assist you and others to know th outcome of what you and your friend found out, about your problem.