RBH Testing at AH - Response to Matt34

[haraldo]

I very much agree with what you're saying here.... I have a few remarks.....

Internet forums aren't taken very seriously by most manufacturers. In their view, forums are just massive collections of groupthink, with people clinging to certain brands and ideas, pushing/crediting inexpensive products while discrediting ones that cost more.

I think those manufacturers that ignore the Internet communities will essentially come to an end, the internet communities are growing powerful and cannot be ignored...

to spend less money, so for a manufacturer that is trying to get top dollar for their product (or requires top dollar to be profitable), it doesn't make sense to market to a bunch of people that are making a decision mostly on price. It's better to market the more expensive stuff to people who it doesn't matter if the speaker is 600 or 1600 each, or at least not as much. Some of us here might call those people suckers, but, we'd probably be suckers too if we could afford it.

I think the Internet is not necessarily about buying cheap products, there are some quite expensive gear that's available only factory direct throgh the Internet, you get more for you money by going factory direct..

Example:
http://www.vaf.com.au/detail.asp?audio=signature&grunt=s200r26719

This is not for the average consumer, this is certainly not cheap, and yes they are really selling quite a few of these speakers....

 

[cbraver]

I should have mentioned that computer products have always been the exception to this, which makes sense.

I think those manufacturers that ignore the Internet communities will essentially come to an end, the internet communities are growing powerful and cannot be ignored...

Maybe to an extent, but it takes a certain type of person to spend time on an Internet forum. And, well, you have to *have* time. A lot of people who can afford the more expensive speakers can't afford the time to spend that we can (I'm a college student, and I'm busy, but not so busy that I can't BS on a forum in between studying... when I'm at work, I don't have that luxury).

I think the Internet is not necessarily about buying cheap products, there are some quite expensive gear that's available only factory direct throgh the Internet, you get more for you money by going factory direct..

Example:
http://www.vaf.com.au/detail.asp?audio=signature&grunt=s200r26719

This is not for the average consumer, this is certainly not cheap, and yes they are really selling quite a few of these speakers....

Define quite a few, numerically. I highly doubt they sell a lot of those.

You're attitude that you get more for your money by going factory direct is the exact attitude that makes brands that aren't ID not want to advertise here. It's an uphill battle and their money can be spent elsewhere with people that aren't going to nickle and dime them. They can't make money in this market, they can make it elsewhere.

I'm not saying there aren't deals with ID products (although, I don't really think they are as hot as the majority here seem to think), I'm just looking from the perspective of an advertiser.

 

[haraldo]

Maybe to an extent, but it takes a certain type of person to spend time on an Internet forum. And, well, you have to *have* time. A lot of people who can afford the more expensive speakers can't afford the time to spend that we can (I'm a college student, and I'm busy, but not so busy that I can't BS on a forum in between studying... when I'm at work, I don't have that luxury).

The "force" of the Internet is like a locomotive, you cannot stop that, and if you ignore it you will be out of business.... perhaps not next year, perhaps not in 2010, but eventually, yes!

Define quite a few, numerically. I highly doubt they sell a lot of those.

They're not selling a lot of those in the US but in other parts of the world they do. And how many they sell is irrelevant, it's an example that factory direct doesn't necessarily mean low end products.

OK, I will say a few then, out of the top of my head I can mention three high-end manufacturers, I'm sure there are more......
Three is perhaps not convincing, but it's there.....

- Duntech http://www.duntech.com.au Their new studio line is only available factory direct
- VAF: www.vaf.com.au
- Acoustic Reality: http://www.acoustic-reality.com/

 

[cbraver]

The "force" of the Internet is like a locomotive, you cannot stop that, and if you ignore it you will be out of business.... perhaps not next year, perhaps not in 2010, but eventually, yes!

I understand the "force" of the Internet, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about markets, and what market a forum like this is.

They're not selling a lot of those in the US but in other parts of the world they do. And how many they sell is irrelevant, it's an example that factory direct doesn't necessarily mean low end products.

OK, I will say a few then, out of the top of my head I can mention three high-end manufacturers, I'm sure there are more......
Three is perhaps not convincing, but it's there.....

- Duntech http://www.duntech.com.au Their new studio line is only available factory direct
- VAF: www.vaf.com.au
- Acoustic Reality: http://www.acoustic-reality.com/

I'm not denying, or even considering relevant, that there are Internet direct retailers that sell things for high prices.

 

[haraldo]

I understand the "force" of the Internet, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about markets, and what market a forum like this is.
.

It's really hard to qualify, isn't it, because the Internet makes for so much dynamics and markets may change overnight...

The markets are changing faster and faster as a result of the Internet, that impacts every business around the world.

Whether it's about Audioholics or something else, The Internet changes everything in en exponential tempo.....

 

[Seth=L]

http://www.vaf.com.au/detail.asp?audio=signature&grunt=s200r26719

Those suckers are going to be hella hard to drive with a 3 ohm nominal load.

 

[stratman]

I can see some manufacturers not wanting Audioholics to review their products, would you really like an organization like AH going over your innards with a fine tooth comb? Then giving your precious "flagship" a shakedown cruise that would make NASA proud? Would you be able to sleep at night, knowing that in a few days your design errors, omissions and outright lies (if there are any) will be plastered across the net where potentially over 1 million finicky, opinionated, mal-contents known as the A/V community will nail your product to the proverbial wall? I'd venture to say that many upstarts aren't willing or able, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

 

[Halon451]

I can see some manufacturers not wanting Audioholics to review their products, would you really like an organization like AH going over your innards with a fine tooth comb? Then giving your precious "flagship" a shakedown cruise that would make NASA proud? Would you be able to sleep at night, knowing that in a few days your design errors, omissions and outright lies (if there are any) will be plastered across the net where potentially over 1 million finicky, opinionated, mal-contents known as the A/V community will nail your product to the proverbial wall? I'd venture to say that many upstarts aren't willing or able, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Well, that's what makes AH great - you can be sure that any product that gets a rave review from AH is sure to be a good one, subjective or not. And it does and should speak volumes for a company who is willing enough to stand behind its product and place it under such scrutiny for the public to witness. This said, of course many upstart companies are likely to shy away from such a thing, but I tell ya nothing beats advertising like good old fashioned word of mouth, which is largely what this forum (and others I suppose) represent.

 

[Halon451]

...when people here have a pretty small budget (and are already convinced that certain ID brands are magical).

SVS is magical. What's the problem?

 

[stratman]

Well, that's what makes AH great - you can be sure that any product that gets a rave review from AH is sure to be a good one, subjective or not. And it does and should speak volumes for a company who is willing enough to stand behind its product and place it under such scrutiny for the public to witness. This said, of course many upstart companies are likely to shy away from such a thing, but I tell ya nothing beats advertising like good old fashioned word of mouth, which is largely what this forum (and others I suppose) represent.

You're correct sir. (as Ed McMahon would say)