Sacrify receiver or speakers

[foxnews]

I am looking for a good receiver with the following criteria:

1) support 4 ohm speakers (axiom m80)
2) 3 HDMI +
3) upconvert to HDMI signal
4) less than $500

Onkyo TX-SR606 seems almost a perfect choice until I read the manual. it does not support less than 4 ohm speakers. TX-SR806 is too expensive ($1000?). I initially aimed for yamaha RX-V663 but its feature was much less than OnKyo

is there any other receiver that meet the above criteria? or I have to give up Axiom M80 and go for M60? I don't think I should make decision based on receiver. I think speakers are more imporant and long term investment.

 

[MDS]

It will be difficult to impossible to find a receiver for $500-ish (unless it is used) that supports 4 Ohm speakers. The other three criteria are easily met if you are buying a relatively new receiver.

You have two options:
- Get a receiver that has all the features you need and also has pre-outs so you can use an external amp to drive the 4 Ohm speakers.

- Rethink the decision to get M80s. The M60s are very similar and are 8 Ohm. You have to ask yourself if the M80s really sound much better than the M60s and only you can decide that.

 

[Seth=L]

I am looking for a good receiver with the following criteria:

1) support 4 ohm speakers (axiom m80)
2) 3 HDMI +
3) upconvert to HDMI signal
4) less than $500

Onkyo TX-SR606 seems almost a perfect choice until I read the manual. it does not support less than 4 ohm speakers. TX-SR806 is too expensive ($1000?). I initially aimed for yamaha RX-V663 but its feature was much less than OnKyo

is there any other receiver that meet the above criteria? or I have to give up Axiom M80 and go for M60? I don't think I should make decision based on receiver. I think speakers are more imporant and long term investment.

For the record, it's the TX-SR605 and TX-SR805. Edit: I see now the new Onkyo models are becoming available

Where do you live? In the states you can often get the TX-SR806 for near $600-700.

The Yamaha RX-V663 might be fine with 4 ohm speakers, but I wouldn't push it too hard. I trust it would handle 4 ohms better than the TX-SR606. The TX-SR806 (assuming it will be like the TX-SR805, it's not released or made note of yet) can handle 4 ohm loads with no problems.

The RX-V663 has plenty of features, but lacks three HDMI inputs. It has preouts, the Onkyo TX-SR606 does not.

 

[foxnews]

what is the point of buying a receiver and then you have to spend extra to buy an external amp?

--Both Onkyo and Yamaha do HDMI signal conversion. no difference here.

--Onkyo upscales video to 1080i while Yamaha does not. I belive this is not important since my Samsung LN50A650 TV can upscale better a receiver? someone correct me on this if I am wrong.

1--Onkyo has 4 HDMI. this is definitly an advantage
2--Yamaha beats Onkyo over 4 ohm support (and an extra 5w per channel)

it seems (2) is more important than (1)? hence Yamaha is a better option?

I appreciate your opinions.

 

[MDS]

Only if you are dead set on the M80s and a 4 Ohm load. It sounds like you have already convinced yourself that you need a receiver to drive the 4 Ohm M80s - so be it - buy whatever you can find that can safely drive a 4 Ohm load (good luck on that).

By the way, lots of people use an external amp with a receiver. Not me, but plenty. If you don't want to do that, then consider the zillions of other speakers that do not present a 4 Ohm load.

 

[jsantos615]

FoxNews -

It sounds like you've got some needs/wants that might be hard to satisfy with a $500 budget. Personally, if you have to go with a 4 ohm speaker, then my favorite solution is from MDS : find a a receiver with preouts and add an amp that can support 4 ohms, like the Audiosource Amp100.

Another solution that would keep you under budget is the Onkyo TX-SR674 Silver Refurb, which is on special for $289, shipped, if you have a new membership to clubonkyo. It has HDMI upconversion and, according to the product page, can handle loads down to 3 ohms. The only thing about this unit that may not work for you is that it only had 2 HDMI ins. Can you live with upconverting a 720p/1080i component video source to HDMI? If so, you could come $200 under budget.

There is also a TX-SR705 Refurb for $489, and that steps you up to THX certification, more power and a third HDMI input.

I've had really good success with ShopOnkyo.com refurbs; the ones that I have looked and sounded brand new when I received them.

Hope this helps...

-joe

 

[foxnews]

I am building a new theater from scratch and it reach my budget limit already.
you guys now made me thinking of an amp, arh.

now I have to do more reading about the amp. Audio Source Stereo Power Amplifier Amp 100:

1)is it better if an amp use optical input? or impossible since it does not decode?
2) will an amp add additional power to the receiver? for example, 606 provide 90w per channel, would the above amp add 50w and the total is 150w/channel?
3) 663 has preamp while 606 does not. what does this mean?

 

[PENG]

I am looking for a good receiver with the following criteria:

1) support 4 ohm speakers (axiom m80)
2) 3 HDMI +
3) upconvert to HDMI signal
4) less than $500

Onkyo TX-SR606 seems almost a perfect choice until I read the manual. it does not support less than 4 ohm speakers. TX-SR806 is too expensive ($1000?). I initially aimed for yamaha RX-V663 but its feature was much less than OnKyo

is there any other receiver that meet the above criteria? or I have to give up Axiom M80 and go for M60? I don't think I should make decision based on receiver. I think speakers are more imporant and long term investment.

[/QUOTE

I have the 659 and based on Audioholics bench test results I would not worry about using it to drive the m80 fronts and center as long as the surrround speakers are 8 ohms with reasonably high sensitivity numbers. Based ont the specs and weight of the 663, as Seth previously suggested (if I remember correctly), the 663 may have the same or similar amps to the 659's.

Anyway, while I cannot find any lab measurements for the 663, I did manage to find one for the AX861 (similar weight and power specs as the 661, just more features and is tuned for the U.K.) and one for the 661. Even the 661 turned out numbers that would suggest it could handle the m80 as well. So please use the follow links and take a look for yourself.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/pdfs/HCC/149/HCC_149_068.pdf

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2276/test-bench-yamaha-rx-v661-av-receiver.html

My suggestion is, go for the 663, crossover the m80 at 80 Hz (assuming you have a good sub), play your favourite movie/music at your preferred SPL for a couple of hours and then see if the unit gets too hot. If it does, then either return it, or add a dirt cheap 2 channel amp and you are good to go again. Overall, I definite think the 663 is better suited to your needs than the 605/6.

 

[foxnews]

quote from 663 spec:
Dynamic Power (IHF)
Front L/R, 8/6/4/2 Ω ..................................... 135/165/195/240 W

what is dynamic power?
does the above spec mean that at 4ohm, it can provide 195w to the two front speakers? I thought it can only provide 95w per channel. if it provide 195w to front speakers, then what happended to the other speakers? do other speakers got less power?

 

[zumbo]

Get the best Yamaha (with pre-outs) you can afford. Get the speakers you want. Don't worry about the ohm load. The receiver will go into protection mode if the load is too much. I doubt it will ever shut down. I used my Yamaha 1400 to drive a complete five speaker 4ohm system with no problems. It never shut down, and I like it loud. After your funds build back up, you can add an external amp. This is how I did it. I am so happy I went with the speakers I wanted.

 

[zumbo]

quote from 663 spec:
Dynamic Power (IHF)
Front L/R, 8/6/4/2 Ω ..................................... 135/165/195/240 W

what is dynamic power?
does the above spec mean that at 4ohm, it can provide 195w to the two front speakers? I thought it can only provide 95w per channel. if it provide 195w to front speakers, then what happended to the other speakers? do other speakers got less power?

Dynamic power is a spec that gives the amps ability to handle dips in the ohm load. This is the amps reserve, so to speak, to produce this power in a short instant. It is not a spec showing what the amp will do when connected to a certain ohm speaker. It does, however, give an idea of the amps total ability. The higher the numbers, the better the amp. On the other hand, these numbers could be different between brands. So, I would only compare units from the same manufacturer to determine which one has more reserve power.

 

[zumbo]

Also, a low/mid quality 8ohm speaker may in fact dip to lower ohms in demanding playback than a mid/high quality 4ohm speaker.

 

[Seth=L]

The point of adding amplification to a receiver is this. Receivers are fairly inexpensive compared to preamplifier/processors that carry out the same function. Receivers are basically a pre/pro and amplifier in one package. The cost to benefit ratio is typically better when buying a receiver with preouts along with a power amplifier versus a pre/pro and amplifier combination.

 

[foxnews]

what is the long term damage if I use receivers(without 4ohm support) to drive 4 ohm speakers (such as Axiom M80)? I will use average volumn, not too crazy loud.

These receivers include Onkyo 606 and Pioneer Pioneer VSX-1018TXH. their spec does not indicate 4 ohm support. One special note about Pioneer VSX-1018TXH is that it can do all the way up to 130w/channel but it does not suport 4 ohm. why so high wat/channel and not support 4 ohm?

 

[Seth=L]

what is the long term damage if I use receivers(without 4ohm support) to drive 4 ohm speakers (such as Axiom M80)? I will use average volumn, not too crazy loud.

These receivers include Onkyo 606 and Pioneer Pioneer VSX-1018TXH. their spec does not indicate 4 ohm support. One special note about Pioneer VSX-1018TXH is that it can do all the way up to 130w/channel but it does not suport 4 ohm. why so high wat/channel and not support 4 ohm?

They are just specifications. The VSX-1018 should handle a 4 ohm load better than both the Yamaha RX-V663 and the Onkyo TX-SR606.

 

[foxnews]

They are just specifications. The VSX-1018 should handle a 4 ohm load better than both the Yamaha RX-V663 and the Onkyo TX-SR606.

if that is the case, then I would wait until June to get pioneer, instead of buying yamaha 663 now.

Can you provide some reading links to support that claim?

not that I don't believe you but I don't want to damage my $2k speakers

 

[Seth=L]

if that is the case, then I would wait until June to get pioneer, instead of buying yamaha 663 now.

Can you provide some reading links to support that claim?

not that I don't believe you but I don't want to damage my $2k speakers

To earn THX Select certification the receiver must be able to handle 4 ohm loads with moderately efficient speakers in a medium sized room (vague representation).

 

[foxnews]

To earn THX Select certification the receiver must be able to handle 4 ohm loads with moderately efficient speakers in a medium sized room (vague representation).

Yamaha passed this certification. I couldn't find the same in pioneer. How do you know pioneer can handle 4 ohm like the yamaha? do you have pioneer?

 

[foxnews]

quote from Onkyo "North American models do not support speakers
with an impedance of less than 6 ohms."

 

[MinusTheBear]

what is the long term damage if I use receivers(without 4ohm support) to drive 4 ohm speakers (such as Axiom M80)? I will use average volumn, not too crazy loud.

The majority of the receivers on their specs do not support 4 ohms. The company's making these receivers are very cautious about making these claims due to any type of liabilty. For example I emailed Denon about all their receivers and asked them if I can run 4 ohm speakers off of them. The audio specialist at Denon emailed me back and said none of our receivers support 4 ohm capability except their 2 channel rigs and gave me a link for those. Even though the high end Denon receivers could run 4 ohm loads with ease he still did not recommend any of them. I am pretty sure that the receivers that the people have recommended will work just fine, just maybe give it a feel once and a while and see how hot it runs and keep the volumes at moderate levels and you should be fine. I have to agree that getting pre-outs is a very good idea as well.