.....other than SVS???

[ParkerAudio]

Hell, the crossover for that Wilson sub is $1500 over Fired Up's budget.

 

[haraldo]

Hell, the crossover for that Wilson sub is $1500 over Fired Up's budget.

What the he.....
How can they charge $4000 for the X-over.... You can buy a Lyngdorf DPA-1 Fully digital preamp with a bunch of digital and analogue inputs, full DSP based room correction, digital X-over and balanced and single ended analogue outputs... and a digital output to drive their TDA (True Digital Amplifier) products... A very very high end product for slightly more than $4000...

Are the Wilson products overpriced? That's an understatement...

You cannot make a dinosaur fly.....

Regards

Harald N

 

[ParkerAudio]

Well, if they have a sucker on the hook for $18000, they might as well get another $4000 out of them. I am sure that there is a fancy $1000 cable you can buy to hook the thing up as well.

 

[Sheep]

And being 1 subwoofer only, it will interact very poorly with the room, and require lots of EQing.

SheepStar

 

[haraldo]

And seriously, if you use the Lyngdorf products with room correction and DSP X-overs, that will make a laughing stock of the Wilson's

And being 1 subwoofer only, it will interact very poorly with the room, and require lots of EQing.
SheepStar

2 subwoofers (stereo) are always better than 1, period!

 

[ParkerAudio]

Yeah, and the Lyngdorf DPA-1 will only be a little more than the Wilson Crossover.

 

[haraldo]

Yeah, and the Lyngdorf DPA-1 will only be a little more than the Wilson Crossover.

Perhaps this is hijacking the tread....

I have listened a few times to the Lyngdorf TDAI 2200, which contains a lot of the same technology.... That's a immaculate product which is highly recommended (in my opinion), you'll get seamless subwoofer integration, and it's not that pricey...

If you want a stereo setup, this is a sensational product for integrating stereo subwoofers

 

[ParkerAudio]

When I purchase something, I think about what else I can get with that money. I just bought two supercharged Sea Doo Waverunners and they sure do look like more than a Wilson sub with a crossover, however, they were slightly less. Compliment the boat dock though.

 

[ParkerAudio]

Perhaps this is hijacking the tread....

I have listened a few times to the Lyngdorf TDAI 2200, which contains a lot of the same technology.... That's a immaculate product which is highly recommended (in my opinion), you'll get seamless subwoofer integration, and it's not that pricey...

If you want a stereo setup, this is a sensational product for integrating stereo subwoofers

This thread was hijacked a long time ago when people started talking about SVS subs, and now it has run the course.

 

[haraldo]

When I purchase something, I think about what else I can get with that money. I just bought two supercharged Sea Doo Waverunners and they sure do look like more than a Wilson sub with a crossover, however, they were slightly less. Compliment the boat dock though.

"Waterguy" I like the sea too, but I'm a sailing guy, I've been sailing since I was 10 years, at a point in time I had a couple of sailing boats, not anymore, but I'd rather buy a sensible set of sub's and a great sailing boat than a pair of Wilson's

Yeah, and the Lyngdorf DPA-1 will only be a little more than the Wilson Crossover.

I just checked the price, Right here where I live it's a bit more, actually $6000, which is still slightly more than $4000,- but still, considering what you get...
Not sure about the price in the US, anyways you have the TaCT products there too.....

Thanks for the Chat (Perhaps not so interesting for everyone else)

 

[ParkerAudio]

I have the Wilson crossover at $4400 here and the Lyngdorf DPA-1 at $5500, US price.

 

[haraldo]

I have the Wilson crossover at $4400 here and the Lyngdorf DPA-1 at $5500, US price.

Also...... The Tact labs 2.2 mini is cheaper than that X-over, at $3500 and look at the feature list:
• Dynamic Room Correction
• Automatic room correction and room response measurement without the use of external computer interface
• Nine correction presets plus bypass
• Crossover filtering with filter slopes of up to 24th order – 144 dB/octave slope.
• On-the-fly correction and crossover filter parameter adjustment
• Can operate in 2.2, 2.1 and 2.0 mode
• Time alignment with approximately 10 microseconds resolution
• Level balancing
• Channel polarity
• 12-band parametric EQ per channel

Only for stereo guys though ....

I have no doubt in my mind that a properly set up system with high quality stereo sub's, DSP based room correction and digital X-overs will outclass the Wilson XS with the Wilson X-over. Anyone out there may disagree with me, but there's no way I will change my mind on that. This is the that's the path I'm approaching now....
I can't afford to try this out anyways.... (The Wilson's I mean)

Anyone out there thinking along the same ways?

 

[fired up]

Wow! Go away for a few days and .......that's what I deserve for going away for a few days. HAA-HAA!!

I read through the post - in amazement - and jotted down the contenders.

I also received many PM's saying that it is usually a good idea - from a musical standpoint - to buy Paradigm surround speaker setup and use the Paradigm Sub designed for it or B&W or you get the idea - Brand X speakers with Brand X sub.

The argument and it now is one is: I WANT A MUSICAL SUB TO GO WITH SPEAKERS DESIGNED MORE FOR MUSIC THAN HT BUT IN A SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM SO I CAN LISTEN TO MULTICHANNEL SACD CLASSICAL CD's. My wife's argument is to keep the Living Room/Family Room looking like a Living Room/Family Room and not stuffed with oversized subs or speakers.

We disagree on the system layout.

I am now seriously thinking of buying only two great sounding floorstanders that go low in frequency and gradually over time build a system around them. However, I know the best thing to do is to purchase 2 great sounding musical floorstanders that go low in frequency and ALSO ADD A SMALL SUB to augment them and help out on bombastic Wagnerian Orchestral music.

Get my point. Skip the 5.1 for now. Just go 2.1. that is where I think my wife and I will reach an agreement. As time goes on build up to a full surround sound setup.

Now, I hate to do this - Any suggestions on a Manufacturer that makes both outstanding floorstanders and sub?

Whew! Thanks for reading.

Eddie

 

[ParkerAudio]

Before ruling out PB13-U, look at these measurements !!!!
Darn.....
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=22950&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

And with room gain and boundary gain you can add more than 12dB to the figures at 20Hz
If you put the sub in a corner you will get 12db more out of the sub and room gain comes in addition to that...
If I remember things correctly....

I'm not sure even Velodyne DD-15 will equal this? Perhaps DD-18

Some possible options in varying sizes and priceranges
- Martin Logan Descent
- Audio Physic Luna II
- Dynaudio Audience SUB500
- MJ Acoustic Reference 800
- There us an upcoming MJ Acoustic Reference 400
- Rel B1
- Thiel Smartsubs (Although I think they're very overpriced)
- Krix Seismic 5 (Not sure if they're available in the US)
http://www.krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=12


Actually, I can't find the Luna II anymore on the website, wonder if it's become obsolete?

Regards

Harald N

I am with Harald on his sub recommendations. As you have read in my previous posts the Martin Logan Descent/Depth are fantastic for music, just check around for the reviews. As for mains in the front, I like my B&W 703's, nice neutral tone, not to bright, around $2800 for the pair.

 

[zhimbo]

I also received many PM's saying that it is usually a good idea - from a musical standpoint - to buy Paradigm surround speaker setup and use the Paradigm Sub designed for it or B&W or you get the idea - Brand X speakers with Brand X sub.

That goes against *everything* I've ever read about subs. I'd forget about that advice entirely. Speakers should match, but the sub covers a different frequency range (that's that point).

Get a good sub. Don't worry about brand matching of sub to speakers.

 

[Warpdrv]

That goes against *everything* I've ever read about subs. I'd forget about that advice entirely. Speakers should match, but the sub covers a different frequency range (that's that point).

Get a good sub. Don't worry about brand matching of sub to speakers.

+1,000,000
I have yet to brand match a sub to my speakers... And with a little diligence it/they blended perfectly with my speaker setups just fine...

 

[jostenmeat]

The one thing I'd be concerned with in using a sub for music with full-range towers (or perhaps any speaker) is finding the right blend, by way of x-over point chosen, sloping, phase etc. I briefly tried using a sub (when they were with my stereo mains), and I just settled on 2.0 stereo. You will want to x-over the sub, even with full-range mains, to avoid phase and amplitude issues.

For HT, I find that 80hz seems to be the ubiquitous solution for a x-over point.

Assuming I am right in the first paragraph above, how will you easily switch between the two settings? For instance, one pro reviewer that has my mains uses 28hz as x-over point for the sub in his music stereo system. I guess I just want to shed light on the whole BM (bass mgmt) thing. Some receivers, processors, are more powerful than others. I know the SMS-1 is supposed to be pretty powerful, but I do not know to what extent, and Im sure others have found more affordable solutions.

It could be you end up like me, and just forgo the sub for stereo use altogether. Well, they are no longer combined, and perhaps I would have tried again had I more flexible/powerful equipment. I sure wasn't going to fire up the display everytime I wanted to change x-over point in my receiver, just to get to the GUI!

edit: wanted to add.. a sub is pretty much a requirement in HT because the LFE is only meant for the sub. Some argue that some of this info may go to the mains, but I share the same present impression that the mains don't often get a whole lot of the "LFE material". Using a 2.0 system means you miss out on a huge amount, if not all, of the LFE.
I know a while ago when you started your speaker quest, that I already recommended JL Audio for a smaller music sub. I own ML products, and I still found the JL to be superior to Descent/Depth at a very similar street price point. Gorgeous too, and decidely smaller than most subs with comparable performance.

The Velo DD series is perhaps the other usual candidate, and I would consider them more strongly in a smaller room if only for their more powerful onboard EQ, but if you get an outboard BM system anyways...

 

[ParkerAudio]

Yeah, you can't worry about matching brand throughout, some companies make great mains, surrounds, centers, but lousy subs.

 

[AdrianMills]

The one thing I'd be concerned with in using a sub for music with full-range towers (or perhaps any speaker) is finding the right blend, by way of x-over point chosen, sloping, phase etc. I briefly tried using a sub (when they were with my stereo mains), and I just settled on 2.0 stereo. You will want to x-over the sub, even with full-range mains, to avoid phase and amplitude issues.

For HT, I find that 80hz seems to be the ubiquitous solution for a x-over point.

Assuming I am right in the first paragraph above, how will you easily switch between the two settings? For instance, one pro reviewer that has my mains uses 28hz as x-over point for the sub in his music stereo system. I guess I just want to shed light on the whole BM (bass mgmt) thing. Some receivers, processors, are more powerful than others. I know the SMS-1 is supposed to be pretty powerful, but I do not know to what extent, and Im sure others have found more affordable solutions.

I cross over at 80Hz with my B&W 804S and they are set to small so they get none of the bass. I use the SMS-1 and it's almost trivial to blend any mains with any sub with the options you are provided for slope, phase etc.

There are other possibilities out there too but as far as I'm aware currently the SMS-1 provides the best compromise between cost, functionality and ease of use.

28hz? Now that's just silly. lol

 

[fired up]

Thanks to all. I mean it - appreciate all the great suggestions.

I re-read entire thread again and see "SMS-1" mentioned a few times but have no idea what it is.

What about the big Definitive Technology BP7000SC Bipolar SuperTower with an 1800 Watt Class D Amp for subwoofer

BP7000SC Specifications:
Dimensions: 8-15/16" W x 16-5/8" D x 52-1/2" H
Freq. Response: 11 Hz – 30 kHz
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amp.: 20 – 1000 Watts/channel
Driver Complement:
– Four 6-1/2" high definition cast-magnesium basket polymer upper bass/midrange drivers.
– Two 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters with silk surrounds.
– One 14" long-throw subwoofer coupled to two 14" infrasonic radiators.
Efficiency: 92 dB
Finish: Piano-Gloss Black or Golden Cherry
Retail: $2749 ea.

OR:

BP7001SC Specifications: with a 1500Watt Class D Amp for Subwoofer
Dimensions: 8-7/16" W x 15" D x 48" H
Freq. Response: 13 Hz – 30 kHz
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amp.: 30 – 600 Watts/channel
Driver Complement:
– Four 6-1/2" high definition cast-magnesium basket polymer upper bass/midrange drivers.
– Two 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters with silk surrounds.
– One 10" long-throw subwoofer coupled to two 10" infrasonic radiators.
Efficiency: 92 dB
Finish: Piano-Gloss Black or Golden Cherry
Retail: $1899 ea.

I looked at the Sunfire website and liked what I saw. Will check for dealers.

From the magazine The Absolute Sound I found these picks:
EPOS ELS ACTIVE SUBWOOFER $800
JAMES EMB-1000 $1495
REL BRITANNICA B3 SUB $1995
JL AUDIO FATHOMf112/f113 $2700/$3400
Then prices go through the roof for exotic subs.

Printed out the craigsub list link.

After April 15th I will start auditioning in earnest with all the great suggestions I've received. Trying to get my taxes done is a nightmare.

Thanks,

Eddie