Supreme Court & Second Amendment

[jonnythan]

"Soft" gun laws like those in the US do absolutely nothing but prevent people from legally owning and carrying guns.

They do not affect those who who illegally own and carry guns.

The "soft" gun laws serve to aid proliferation while keeping guns out of law-abiding hands. Soft gun laws are the worst possible form of gun control.

 

[stratman]

"Soft" gun laws like those in the US do absolutely nothing but prevent people from legally owning and carrying guns.

They do not affect those who who illegally own and carry guns.

The "soft" gun laws serve to aid proliferation while keeping guns out of law-abiding hands. Soft gun laws are the worst possible form of gun control.

Not too many understand that.

 

[jonnythan]

Just thought I'd stir the pot some more on this one...

Shooting in Butte , Montana
Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :

Butte, Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12
gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch
aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical
help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to
the chest.

Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and
herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control !

Cute story, but it's totally fabricated.

Never happened.

 

[Rickster71]

Cute story, but it's totally fabricated.

Never happened.

'If' that one story isn't true.
I can supply you with ten stories a month, that are true.
They are documented in the NRA's monthly magazine.
They are derived from local news stories, that never, ever get told nationally.
An honest, law abiding gun owner that defends him / her self isn't politically correct enough to be in the national news.

 

[jonnythan]

'If' that one story isn't true.
I can supply you with ten stories a month, that are true.
They are documented in the NRA's monthly magazine.
They are derived from local news stories, that never, ever get told nationally.
An honest, law abiding gun owner that defends him / her self isn't politically correct enough to be in the national news.

It isn't true.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp

I'd like to see a similar story that's true. Please post some for us.

 

[Rickster71]

I'd like to see a similar story that's true. Please post some for us.

This archive contains “Armed Citizen” entries from the present back to 1958. The database is searchable by key word and state and results are displayed in chronological order according to the month, along with the newspaper it's attributed to.
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx

 

[Pyrrho]

Just thought I'd stir the pot some more on this one...

Shooting in Butte , Montana
Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :

Butte, Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12
gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch
aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical
help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to
the chest.

Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news...[emphasis added].....an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and
herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control !

The reason you don't see the story on those channels is that it is a lie, as jonnythan has shown at:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395706&postcount=162

It is not some "liberal media conspiracy" that prevents such stories from not making it on those news programs.

Also, even if it had not been a lie, whether it would be shown or not would depend upon the other news of the day (for example, think about what it would take to make the news on the first day of the U.S. invading Iraq). And, of course, if one fails to watch the news on the day of a particular story, one does not see it, and then one may think a story is neglected when it isn't.

 

[Rickster71]

The reason you don't see the story on those channels is that it is a lie, as jonnythan has shown at:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395706&postcount=162

It is not some "liberal media conspiracy" that prevents such stories from not making it on those news programs.

Also, even if it had not been a lie, whether it would be shown or not would depend upon the other news of the day (for example, think about what it would take to make the news on the first day of the U.S. invading Iraq). And, of course, if one fails to watch the news on the day of a particular story, one does not see it, and then one may think a story is neglected when it isn't.

Since the archive I linked to spans back to 1958; one would think defending one's self, and family had to be 'newsworthy' at some point in time. No?

I didn't post the original story. Though the person that did is very credible, and makes sense 99.9% of the time. So no one is perfect.

You seem to be hanging your hat on the one story, that isn't true.
What about the millions that are true, and not reported?
Since there is no "liberal media conspiracy" (as you say) can you recall a story of a person defending themselves that was on the news?
I can't; though I know they exist.

 

[stratman]

Since the archive I linked to spans back to 1958; one would think defending one's self, and family had to be 'newsworthy' at some point in time. No?

I didn't post the original story. Though the person that did is very credible, and makes sense 99.9% of the time. So no one is perfect.

You seem to be hanging your hat on the one story, that isn't true.
What about the millions that are true, and not reported?
Since there is no "liberal media conspiracy" (as you say) can you recall a story of a person defending themselves that was on the news?
I can't; though I know they exist.

All stories of people defending themselves are part of a "vast right wing conspiracy," so they're not true, just lies, from big meanies, that don't like other people.

 

[jonnythan]

"Millions" of stories?

Perhaps you exaggerate.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

All stories of people defending themselves are part of a "vast right wing conspiracy," so they're not true, just lies, from big meanies, that don't like other people.

Entirely correct. Thank you for acknowledging that fact.

 

[Rickster71]

"Millions" of stories?

Perhaps you exaggerate.

The archive I mentioned earlier, “Armed Citizen” contains entries from the present back to 1958.
So, no I do not exaggerate.

Here is another link
http://www.kressworks.com/Politics/Gun_Control/dgu/defensive_gun_uses.html
Recent studies find that every year hundreds of thousands (some even claim 1 to 2 million) people use guns to save their lives, the lives of their family and friends, and to safeguard their property.

It hasn't gone unnoticed, my original question has gone unanswered.

 

[jonnythan]

"Use guns to save their lives" is a far, far cry from "fire a gun to save their lives" or "kill to save their lives."

 

[Rickster71]

"Use guns to save their lives" is a far, far cry from "fire a gun to save their lives" or "kill to save their lives."

I don't recall your brand hyperbole and / or semantics being part of either study, or links I've mentioned.

 

[stratman]

The archive I mentioned earlier, “Armed Citizen” contains entries from the present back to 1958.
So, no I do not exaggerate.

Here is another link
http://www.kressworks.com/Politics/Gun_Control/dgu/defensive_gun_uses.html
Recent studies find that every year hundreds of thousands (some even claim 1 to 2 million) people use guns to save their lives, the lives of their family and friends, and to safeguard their property.

It hasn't gone unnoticed, my original question has gone unanswered.

It'll never be answered. I couldn't live in any major US city without owning a gun. If I had to rely on cops to save/protect my life......I've got prime real estate to sell you, a little mushy and pay no never mind to the gators, they're just soaking some rays.

Besides, the anti-gun lobby always tries (and succeeds in many cases) to quash those stories. The majority of the news outlets are by nature, anti-gun, anti-conservative, but of course that's always denied, the fact that the media is slanted to the left is "part of a right wing conspiracy" remember?

 

[jonnythan]

I don't recall your brand hyperbole and / or semantics being part of either study, or links I've mentioned.

Not a study.

A survey.

I'm on your side. I think that gun laws should be largely relaxed and law-abiding citizens encouraged to own and carry firearms.

 

[Highlander]

As far as I can see, in America there's a significant likelyhood that a burglar will be carrying a firearm. Thus, without one yourself, it'd be fair to say that you're pretty much screwed.

In the U.K., the likelyhood of a burglar carrying a firearm is miniscule, so the general public need only be concerned about being robbed or beaten to a pulp. Yes, you maybe killed, but then that's true of the situation in America too.

Stated another way:

In America the general public is far better equipped to deal positively with a burgler than in the U.K. Unfortunately, however, the burgler in America is far better equipped to retaliate in a way that results in fatalities than in the U.K.

I for one would rather wrestle with a burgler than worry about him blowing my head off.

 

[Rickster71]

I for one would rather wrestle with a burgler than worry about him blowing my head off.

Conversely, I'd rather my wife blow a perpetrator's head off (so to speak)
or scare them off, than wrestle with one.

 

[Pyrrho]

Since the archive I linked to spans back to 1958; one would think defending one's self, and family had to be 'newsworthy' at some point in time. No?

I didn't post the original story. Though the person that did is very credible, and makes sense 99.9% of the time. So no one is perfect.

You seem to be hanging your hat on the one story, that isn't true.
What about the millions that are true, and not reported?
Since there is no "liberal media conspiracy" (as you say) can you recall a story of a person defending themselves that was on the news?
I can't; though I know they exist.

I have seen stories of people defending themselves on the news. However, such stories are relatively rarely on TV, as they are not usually very newsworthy. Typically, such stories will be on local news broadcasts, if they are on TV, as they tend to be local news stories rather than stories of national importance. They also don't bother putting on the news every story of someone hurting themselves (or others) with a gun, either, which they would probably want to do if they had a strong anti-gun bias. Such stories are too common and too local to generally make national headlines. Exceptions, of course, occur when a famous person is involved. For example, when the Vice President shot someone accidentally. That becomes newsworthy not because of the story in itself, but because of who was involved in it. It would also have been on the news if, instead, the Vice President had defended himself from intruders with his shotgun, again, because of who would have been involved.

Right now, one is much more likely to see a story on the Supreme Court case involving Washington, D.C., as that is a story of broader importance than what happens in one person's house. (I do not mean to trivialize what happens in one person's situation; I am only saying that it typically is not such that it is as newsworthy for others as cases involving broad laws.)

If every story of someone defending themselves or others were on the news, and if every story of a gun accident were on the news, it would not be worth watching the news, as too much of one's time would be wasted with stories that have similar recurring themes, and they would each of them individually not have much importance in the lives of most viewers. Also, many stories that people tell are fabricated, and it would take a great deal of time to research them all to find out which ones were real and which ones were exaggerated or fake. And in some cases, one would never know what really happened, as there would not be enough physical evidence to make a determination.

But, again, the bottom line is that an individual occurrence, no matter how important to the individuals involved, is typically not very newsworthy.

 

[Highlander]

Conversely, I'd rather my wife blow a perpetrator's head off (so to speak) or scare them off, than wrestle with one.

Yes, I can well understand that argument. But really, this entire discussion is pointless; arguments for and against are really just two sides of the same coin.