Which driver to replace an SVS PB12-Plus driver?

[Warpdrv]

For sure, I was definately thinking it was in the amp sectoin where the problem is, and has been a constant issue, with the drivers being switched out.

 

[Davemcc]

That sounds like something in the amp section, do you have it on auto on, or is it just turned on...

Yes, I leave it in auto on. At first when I thought I was missing bass, I would just look behind and see the green light and think, "well, it's on". Then I would hear songs that I knew were missing bass even though it was on, so I tried to identify the symptoms, leading to my description as described above.

 

[Warpdrv]

Just to eliminate another idea.... you should set it to "On" Just to see what happens...

It will always be on, but won't draw that much in idle... until you have more time to identify the issue...

 

[codexp3]

This is why I prefer manufacturers that make their own drivers. It’s not so much SVS as it is the offshore operation that makes their drivers. I know I’m a JL audio homer, but their drivers are second to none. SVS seems to be popular in the resale market, I’d ditch it. Go with brand with a proven track record. Definitive, Paradigm, Velodyne, and others have excellent products. When something goes wrong in an SVS who do you blame the manufacturer of the amp, driver, crossover, or box? I want as many of my components to be made by the same company as possible. I’ve read many a posts where SVS has had to send out replacement amps for their subs. That doesn’t happen often in companies with decades of experience.

 

[Warpdrv]

This is why I prefer manufacturers that make their own drivers. It’s not so much SVS as it is the offshore operation that makes their drivers. I know I’m a JL audio homer, but their drivers are second to none. SVS seems to be popular in the resale market, I’d ditch it. Go with brand with a proven track record. Definitive, Paradigm, Velodyne, and others have excellent products. When something goes wrong in an SVS who do you blame the manufacturer of the amp, driver, crossover, or box? I want as many of my components to be made by the same company as possible. I’ve read many a posts where SVS has had to send out replacement amps for their subs. That doesn’t happen often in companies with decades of experience.

I have 4 SVS subs in my house, and I can't say that I have had a lick of problems with any of them... I'm not saying they are without fault, but that doesn't make them bad subs because they are popular on the resale market, they just have that many subs out there and obviously they are still working... Can't say I wouldn't be frustrated in Dave's position though...

 

[Davemcc]

I have 4 SVS subs in my house, and I can't say that I have had a lick of problems with any of them... I'm not saying they are without fault, but that doesn't make them bad subs because they are popular on the resale market, they just have that many subs out there and obviously they are still working... Can't say I wouldn't be frustrated in Dave's position though...

The general consensus seems to be that SVS builds reliable products and will stand behind them in terms of performance and quality. I apologize to SVS for some of my not-so-nice comments earlier in this thread that were simply born of frustration. I certainly didn't expect to have problems when I bought it. Really, it's the intermittent nature of the problem that really causes me the anxiety. I have this thing in the back of my mind that says the components will go back to SVS and they will test them to identify the failure and the components will work properly under testing. Then they'll think "What was that guy thinking?"

 

[Ed Mullen]

Hi Dave:

Warpdrv directed me to this thread. Sorry you are having problems with your PB12-Plus.

This doesn't sound like a problem with the woofer. I suspect the problem is with any of the following: 1) the subwoofer amp, 2) the subwoofer cable(s), 3) the SMS-1, 4) the processor subwoofer pre-out.

Please temporarily remove the SMS-1 from the system and run a single cable directly from your processor. We have seen some SMS-1 units exhibit this symptom.

If the problem still exists, replace the subwoofer cable. After the new cable is installed, wiggle the terminations at the processor and the subwoofer amp to see if there is an intermittent connection at either jack.

If the problem still exists, if possible connect another subwoofer to the processor and see if the substitute subwoofer also exhibits the same behavior. If it does, the AVR has a defective subwoofer pre-out. We've seen this type of failure on AVRs.

If you have systematically ruled out the AVR, subwoofer cable(s), and SMS-1, then naturally we'll replace the amp under warranty.

Please contact us at techsupport with your findings and to continue the troubleshooting. Thanks, Dave.

codexp3: We design and build all our woofers in Ohio, USA.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

 

[j_garcia]

This is why I prefer manufacturers that make their own drivers. It’s not so much SVS as it is the offshore operation that makes their drivers. I know I’m a JL audio homer, but their drivers are second to none. SVS seems to be popular in the resale market, I’d ditch it. Go with brand with a proven track record. Definitive, Paradigm, Velodyne, and others have excellent products. When something goes wrong in an SVS who do you blame the manufacturer of the amp, driver, crossover, or box? I want as many of my components to be made by the same company as possible. I’ve read many a posts where SVS has had to send out replacement amps for their subs. That doesn’t happen often in companies with decades of experience.

LOL, apparently you don't have any first hand experience with SVS, or you are just a troll.

 

[Warpdrv]

I just happened to be emailing back and forth with Ed today about some stuff, and tossed out a link for here... He is a really cool guy and great to chat with.

 

[Davemcc]

Hi Dave:

Warpdrv directed me to this thread. Sorry you are having problems with your PB12-Plus.

This doesn't sound like a problem with the woofer. I suspect the problem is with any of the following: 1) the subwoofer amp, 2) the subwoofer cable(s), 3) the SMS-1, 4) the processor subwoofer pre-out.

Please temporarily remove the SMS-1 from the system and run a single cable directly from your processor. We have seen some SMS-1 units exhibit this symptom.

If the problem still exists, replace the subwoofer cable. After the new cable is installed, wiggle the terminations at the processor and the subwoofer amp to see if there is an intermittent connection at either jack.

If the problem still exists, if possible connect another subwoofer to the processor and see if the substitute subwoofer also exhibits the same behavior. If it does, the AVR has a defective subwoofer pre-out. We've seen this type of failure on AVRs.

If you have systematically ruled out the AVR, subwoofer cable(s), and SMS-1, then naturally we'll replace the amp under warranty.

Please contact us at techsupport with your findings and to continue the troubleshooting. Thanks, Dave.

codexp3: We design and build all our woofers in Ohio, USA.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

Thank you Ed.

I will systematically rule out each component in the chain. Due to the intermittent nature of the problem, this might take some time. I'm going to disconnect the SMS-1 right now and see how the system functions over the next couple of days, then move on to the cable and AVR.

Thanks again, I appreciate the support.

 

[j_garcia]

I had a friend with a similar problem with and SMS-1 and a different sub. He removed the SMS-1 and the issue went away for him as well. I am not saying that is the problem, just that I have heard of this happening before also.

 

[codexp3]

LOL, apparently you don't have any first hand experience with SVS, or you are just a troll.

No troll. I am an admitted JL homer and am very happy with my Fathom 113. I would put it against any sub on the market in sound quality. Cost to performance is another issue.

I apologize to SVS, and I applaud you for manufacturing your drivers. I did not do adequate research and was operating under misinformation.

 

[Ed Mullen]

Thank you Ed.

I will systematically rule out each component in the chain. Due to the intermittent nature of the problem, this might take some time. I'm going to disconnect the SMS-1 right now and see how the system functions over the next couple of days, then move on to the cable and AVR.

Thanks again, I appreciate the support.

OK Dave - good luck with the troubleshooting. Please contact us at techsupport with your findings.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

 

[Ed Mullen]

I had a friend with a similar problem with and SMS-1 and a different sub. He removed the SMS-1 and the issue went away for him as well. I am not saying that is the problem, just that I have heard of this happening before also.

Yes, exactly. We've seen bad equalizers, cables, and AVRs all cause this type of problem. A bad sub amp can also do it of course.

Systematically isolating each variable and ruling it out is the only way to finger the real culprit and save Dave a lot of grief over the long run.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

 

[Ed Mullen]

No troll. I am an admitted JL homer and am very happy with my Fathom 113. I would put it against any sub on the market in sound quality. Cost to performance is another issue.

I apologize to SVS, and I applaud you for manufacturing your drivers. I did not do adequate research and was operating under misinformation.

No apologies needed, codexp3.

We design and build all our woofers in Ohio. We source our subwoofer amps from Toronto (Indigo - BASH Audio). Our subwoofer cabinets are sourced both domestically and overseas (depending on the finish and model).

Many large/established OEMs use BASH amp topology for their powered subwoofers, and our amp failure rates are consistent with the industry average.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

 

[Davemcc]

Yes, exactly. We've seen bad equalizers, cables, and AVRs all cause this type of problem. A bad sub amp can also do it of course.

Systematically isolating each variable and ruling it out is the only way to finger the real culprit and save Dave a lot of grief over the long run.

Ed Mullen
SVS Customer Service

Here's an update. I've spent a lot of time observing this issue. Until I replaced my Denon receiver, I couldn't rule out the LFE channel on the Denon until I replaced it recently. The issue I've been dealing with for the last several months continues to happen with the new Integra, so that effectively rules out the Denon. It also occurs with or without the SMS-1.

I have had the opportunity to put my STF-3 into the system as a reference. This issue does not occur when using the STF-3 with or without the SMS-1. The only time the issue occurs is with the PB12.

I recently tried to play the new Metallica for a friend and had no bass to speak of from the PB12 until I turned it way up and shocked it into operation, then it was fine. Today, it was acting up, sounded tubby with one note bass and it didn't seem to matter volume-wise if the gain were set to 9:00 position or 1:00 position. So what I did was turn the gain to the 3:00 position and raise the master volume quite loud until the sub shocked itself to normal operation. Once it was shocked into normal operation, I could return it to it's previously calibrated settings and it works just fine...until next time.

Now that I can definitively identify the PB12 as the problem, I'll contact SVS on Monday.

 

[mike c]

wow 6 months of observation! thats a sub lifetime!

im surprised the amps wasn't replaced from the getgo.

 

[Davemcc]

Yeah, it seems like a lifetime but there are several mitigating factors. 1) Shortly after my last post on this subject, I ordered the Corvette. Needless to say, I've spent a lot more time outside of the house this summer. 2) It's been somewhat intermittent. During low level listening, which is most lately, there is some LF sound. It's only when you turn it up that you hear that it's not quality bass but muffled and thumpy. 3) I had to take the time to rule out the SMS-1 so I ran for a long time without it to verify. 4) I also wanted to rule out the Denon and I knew I would replace it at some point. Now that I have, I can rule out the Denon as well. 5) I could have brought the Hsu in sooner, but I was dealing with some health issues that...well, let's just say made me feel too tired to be dragging subs around. I'm feeling better now so when I re-racked and re-wired the system, I figured it was time to revisit this issue. 6) Issues like this cause me extreme anxiety. I was uncomfortable when the last driver went south and I can feel it starting to build again now. After my last post last March, I decided I was going to take a break, calm down and revisit the issue when I could confirm the problem.

But really...Has it been six months already!!!!????

 

[Adam]

Hey, Dave. Glad that you're feeling better (and sorry that you were feeling poorly before).

I didn't think of this last night, but I'd suggest sending an e-mail to SVS today. I used to get responses from them on the weekends all of the time - mostly Saturday if I'm remembering right, but you might get a response today. Even if you don't, it puts you higher up in the queue. I'd say just remind Ed about this thread, and I'd think that they'd get you a replacement amp sent out very quickly.

 

[Davemcc]

Hey, Dave. Glad that you're feeling better (and sorry that you were feeling poorly before).

I didn't think of this last night, but I'd suggest sending an e-mail to SVS today. I used to get responses from them on the weekends all of the time - mostly Saturday if I'm remembering right, but you might get a response today. Even if you don't, it puts you higher up in the queue. I'd say just remind Ed about this thread, and I'd think that they'd get you a replacement amp sent out very quickly.

The only hitch is that everything has to be run through Sonic Boom. Darn it! Now you're making me remember details about this that caused me to put it on the back-burner in the first place. The first time the driver pooped out, I was out a fair bit of cash shipping the damaged driver and a spare amp back to Sonic Boom. It looks like I'm in for a repeat of that experience.

I guess I could get an email going today. BTW, when the PB12 works, it really is an awesome sub and I have continued to recommend SVS even while my own wasn't working.

Edit - Letter sent. I've been prodded into action. Thanks.