Which driver to replace an SVS PB12-Plus driver?

Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I've been having problems with my PB12-Plus. The symptoms are 1) when it is turned on (green power light on back), there is little or no sound coming from the sub. Also, feeling the driver, little to no movement of the driver even at very high volumes. 2) After turning the main volume up very high AND turning the sub's gain up VERY high, like well over half way, the sub will suddenly spring to life and literally shake the house. If I don't turn these levels up, the sub will be inaudible. 3) Once the sub is jarred into proper operation as above, I can return the gain back to it's calibrated setting and it will work fine for the duration of the session. Please note the sub is properly calibrated and level matched using the SMS-1.

This is similar to a situation that I had last year, and SVS sent me out a replacement driver that solved the issue at that time. I can't help but feel that the replacement driver has now taken a dump. I've had this sub for just over a year, so I guess it is covered by the 3 year warranty. However, I don't know that I trust SVS to deliver me a third driver that's going to work. Plus, that still leaves me on the hook for shipping the replacement driver, AGAIN.

So, given that I have no confidence in SVS to deliver me a quality product, nor do I want to pay a second time to cover a defect in their product, I would like suggestions for the best replacement driver to stuff into the PB12-Plus cabinet, using the stock amplifier. I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars or more if need be to acquire a driver that will be as good/better AND reliable for the long haul.

Any suggestions? Thanks,
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Is it the 12.3 driver? You would have to model the box in WinISD to find out how well other drivers would perform. I think it would be easier to just get another driver.

SheepStar
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
3rd times a charm... I would definitely just have it replaced under warranty again. Maybe the problem isn't the driver, but the amp malfunctioning that is ruining the speaker. Contact SVS and let them know this is the 2nd time the same problem has happened, and see if they will send you a whole new unit.
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
I don't think you want to switch speakers because the ports are tuned to that particular driver and may not sound good with a different brand substitute. I would complain to SVS about your situation and maybe they will offer you an option that will satisfy you. If after repair you are not confident of the subwoofer, you can always sell it and get something else. That would be better than installing a different brand subwoofer in the box.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
I would talk to SVS again, and try to run down the problem with them again... they strive forth to getting to the bottom of your problem, if it wasn't fixed right the first time, they surely will want you to be happy.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I wouldn't mind contacting SVS about this, but I've already paid return shipping on a replacement amp that didn't fix the problem the first time. Then I paid return shipping to send back the original driver. Now I'm going to have to pay return shipping on another amp, driver or both? When does my obligation to pay out of pocket come to an end?

I don't imagine I could contact SVS until Tuesday anyway, on account of the holiday.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
I wouldn't mind contacting SVS about this, but I've already paid return shipping on a replacement amp that didn't fix the problem the first time. Then I paid return shipping to send back the original driver. Now I'm going to have to pay return shipping on another amp, driver or both? When does my obligation to pay out of pocket come to an end?

I don't imagine I could contact SVS until Tuesday anyway, on account of the holiday.
Definately talk to them. If it were me and I'd replaced both the driver and the amp and still had problems, I'd ask for an entire new sub, not just the potential part. I'd try to get them to cover shipping or at least meet me halfway on it (Most companies that ship alot recieve a huge break on shipping costs. Even if you have to pay for shipping, see if you can do it through them at a discount(they send you a pickup label))

Jack
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Let's think about this a little more. If both items have been replaced, it only leaves a few variables. One, user error in replacing one or both units. This could easily explain many issues. Two, individual failure due to the first issue. Three, abuse. Four, a power issue causing the amplifier to fail.

Now I am not saying # three is the case here, but the first three would be my first concerns for troubleshooting if both the woofer and amp have been replaced at least once.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Let's think about this a little more. If both items have been replaced, it only leaves a few variables. One, user error in replacing one or both units. This could easily explain many issues. Two, individual failure due to the first issue. Three, abuse. Four, a power issue causing the amplifier to fail.

Now I am not saying # three is the case here, but the first three would be my first concerns for troubleshooting if both the woofer and amp have been replaced at least once.
In the first case, they sent me a replacement amp which did not fix the problem. I sent back the replacement and kept my original amp. They then sent me a replacement driver which did fix the problem. Could it be my original amp that is causing the drivers to fail over time, maybe. But now that the damage is done to this driver, I would have to replace both the amp and driver this time, yes?

In terms of user error during replacement, you should know that there are only two connections to be made during replacement of either the amp or the driver, + wire and -wire. How badly could one screw that up? Still this would not account for the original failure of the sub in it's stock, factory sealed condition.

As for abuse, I will rule it out for you. It has been calibrated since new with an SPL meter and most recently with the SMS-1, but set a couple of dB hot for preference. Further, it is in a relatively small room that does not place exceptional demands on it, vis-a-vis it's capability. As a rule, it's gain is set somewhere near the 9:00 position. The gain has not been set anywhere near the 12:00 position except to shock it into action as part of the issue we're talking about now. I've matured enough in this hobby that my bass expectations are simply that the sub blend indistinguishably into the mains, not to shake the rafters, although I do feel the floor shake during certain songs or movie scenes.

If it were a power supply issue, I question why this is the only device to fail. Until I got the SMS-1, I ran a dual sub configuration with the SVS and my STF-3 which still operates exactly as Dr. Hsu intended. The first failure happened during this dual sub setup. This most recent failure occurred while the SVS was running solo in the main system. I've never had power issues with any other electronic device, regardless of age. Even the cheap e-Machine computer I bought in '99 is still operating perfectly at my next door neighbor's house. Personally, I cannot identify any type of power issue that would cause a failure of the subwoofer exclusively, while every other electronic device I've ever owned still operates perfectly.

I'm almost ready to bring the Hsu into the main system and send the SVS to the Land of Misfit Toys. But I will talk to them on Tuesday.

On a side note, I liken the issue to a shaft with a seized bearing. You can wiggle the shaft in the bearing, but not turn it. Then if you apply enough force you can turn the shaft freely from that point on, until you let it sit and the bearing sticks again. Just like this, the driver will vibrate just a tiny bit but not enough to actually hear anything. Then once you shock it to action, it works just fine for a time, but when you come back to it, it may or may not work and might need to be shocked into operation again. Today, it seemed to work just fine, but I ran it for about 14 hours yesterday. Tomorrow's operation remains uncertain.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
In the first case, they sent me a replacement amp which did not fix the problem. I sent back the replacement and kept my original amp. They then sent me a replacement driver which did fix the problem. Could it be my original amp that is causing the drivers to fail over time, maybe. But now that the damage is done to this driver, I would have to replace both the amp and driver this time, yes?

In terms of user error during replacement, you should know that there are only two connections to be made during replacement of either the amp or the driver, + wire and -wire. How badly could one screw that up? Still this would not account for the original failure of the sub in it's stock, factory sealed condition.

As for abuse, I will rule it out for you. It has been calibrated since new with an SPL meter and most recently with the SMS-1, but set a couple of dB hot for preference. Further, it is in a relatively small room that does not place exceptional demands on it, vis-a-vis it's capability. As a rule, it's gain is set somewhere near the 9:00 position. The gain has not been set anywhere near the 12:00 position except to shock it into action as part of the issue we're talking about now. I've matured enough in this hobby that my bass expectations are simply that the sub blend indistinguishably into the mains, not to shake the rafters, although I do feel the floor shake during certain songs or movie scenes.

If it were a power supply issue, I question why this is the only device to fail. Until I got the SMS-1, I ran a dual sub configuration with the SVS and my STF-3 which still operates exactly as Dr. Hsu intended. The first failure happened during this dual sub setup. This most recent failure occurred while the SVS was running solo in the main system. I've never had power issues with any other electronic device, regardless of age. Even the cheap e-Machine computer I bought in '99 is still operating perfectly at my next door neighbor's house. Personally, I cannot identify any type of power issue that would cause a failure of the subwoofer exclusively, while every other electronic device I've ever owned still operates perfectly.

I'm almost ready to bring the Hsu into the main system and send the SVS to the Land of Misfit Toys. But I will talk to them on Tuesday.

On a side note, I liken the issue to a shaft with a seized bearing. You can wiggle the shaft in the bearing, but not turn it. Then if you apply enough force you can turn the shaft freely from that point on, until you let it sit and the bearing sticks again. Just like this, the driver will vibrate just a tiny bit but not enough to actually hear anything. Then once you shock it to action, it works just fine for a time, but when you come back to it, it may or may not work and might need to be shocked into operation again. Today, it seemed to work just fine, but I ran it for about 14 hours yesterday. Tomorrow's operation remains uncertain.
From your description, it certainly sounds as if the voice coils are getting fried. It is too bad you did not keep the replacement amp. My best guest is that your sub amp is producing excess DC offset, likely when driven hard, or may be intermittently.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
From your description, it certainly sounds as if the voice coils are getting fried. It is too bad you did not keep the replacement amp. My best guest is that your sub amp is producing excess DC offset, likely when driven hard, or may be intermittently.
Things do seem to be leading to the amp as the problem. Once the driver is destroyed, that would tend to mask the real issue, as a replacement amp would not drive the destroyed speaker and would not appear to fix the issue. But a replacement driver would appear to fix the issue until it succumbs to the amps failure and fails itself over time.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Things do seem to be leading to the amp as the problem. Once the driver is destroyed, that would tend to mask the real issue, as a replacement amp would not drive the destroyed speaker and would not appear to fix the issue. But a replacement driver would appear to fix the issue until it succumbs to the amps failure and fails itself over time.
You have it correct. DC off set is a common problem. I don't think a lot of those sub amps have speaker protection. If there is no speaker protection the driver is very vulnerable.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
SVS answered my emails on Christmas day..
I wouldn't have expected that...:eek:

But before I contact them, I wanted to use the next couple of days to monitor the issue and be sure this is a continually repeatable issue. As I mentioned, it worked just fine when I fired it up today. I hate the thought that I'm going to go through all the trouble to have the amp and driver replaced, only to have SVS test those parts when they get them back and find nothing wrong with them. Before I ask for a warranty repair, I want to ensure the problem is continually repeatable and demonstrable to SVS when they get the parts back. I don't want to be seen as that guy, who's just a nuisance and a crank.

I find intermittent failures to be one of the most frustrating things to deal with, like taking your car to the mechanic and finding that annoying squeal or grinding noise has stopped before you arrived, so you can't show the mechanic the problem.

I will admit that this thread is partly out of frustration when I found the sub not working properly...again. Where else can I go to vent my audio frustrations. I can't just kick the cats!
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
You should show this thread TO SVS. I think they will replace both the amp and driver just to make sure you're satisfied.

SheepStar
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
You should show this thread TO SVS. I think they will replace both the amp and driver just to make sure you're satisfied.

SheepStar
Sheep is probably right....

They do aim to please...
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
You could also have a failed infrasonic filter, though it is not likely. It does point to the amplifier as the issue if this is the second driver. Hopefully you will get it licked.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Funny thing happened yesterday with it. I thought it was working properly, felt the driver, heard the appropriate noises. Then about halfway through a song, all of a sudden it decided to kick in and just about doubled it's volume. It's not that the music signal changed. It was a fairly repetitive Earth, Wind & Fire song that I know very well and it just seemed like the bass doubled in the middle of a bass guitar riff. So the problem is there, it's just not predictable or repeatable. I think I'm just going to monitor the issue a little longer because I've recently added other concerns to my list of things to worry about and my capacity for angst is limited right now.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
That sounds like something in the amp section, do you have it on auto on, or is it just turned on...
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
That sounds like something in the amp section, do you have it on auto on, or is it just turned on...
I agree, but this amp fault seems to be taking down his drivers eventually. I think the voice coils are getting fried, but connections getting remade by the high volume, causing a spark to re weld the connection. I can't say I have seen this before in a woofer, but I have in tweeter voice coils, and I don't see why it shouldn't happen in a woofer voice coil.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top