When is justice to be served?

[Halon451]

Even if Clinton was more aggressive with prosecuting the first Trade Center bombing, I am not so sure it wouldn't have happened a second time.

How many different occasions did Clinton have to take out Osama? Do you really believe that?

I am with Joe and Otto on this. Halon is sounding like a mouth piece for the right as much as he is accusing Joe and Otto of being a broken record for the left.

I can respect where you stand Jinjuku - however, re-read my response to Joe regarding my own political persuasions. Why is it that anyone who has a voice that is in opposition to liberal cut and run tactics is automatically labeled "right-wing"? I don't get that. The difference here is that I am not simply re-broadcasting right wing propaganda, I am attempting to use my own brain and my own judgment, and look for those on either side of the political party fence that seem to have a focused mindset on protecting our nation and doing what is right. The reason I call them out is because they're on the bandwagon - it's so much easier (always has been) to stand on the side of the vocal majority, and shout amongst their numbers; this would be fine, but in this case the majority has grown from a foundation of public ignorance, media brainwashing and socialistic liberalism. I for one, am not buying in to the fad. We face serious matters these days, and it is worthy of careful, calculated evaluation. I wish others had the patience and spinal fortitude to do the same before they opened their flaps and started spewing simple-minded anti-war rhetoric. I am a mouthpiece only for what I personally believe in, make not a single mistake about it.

To argue that Iraq is no more than a vendetta, that the administration truly believed what they were telling the people that they are sworn to serve (you know, us the American citizen) really places you beyond credibility.

I think to continually blame the Administration only, puts anyone who does so beyond credibility, or either they suffer from a severe case of short-term memory. If my own memory serves correct, party leaders from both sides of the fence were driven to vote us to war against Iraq back in 2003. As someone said, even dear old Hillary voted in favor. So please... move on already, this argument is completely invalid.

 

[haraldo]

As someone said, even dear old Hillary voted in favor. So please... move on already, this argument is completely invalid.

Really.... Do you believe she remembers that by now?
Doesn't look like that from the speeches she's giving......

 

[Halon451]

Really.... Do you believe she remembers that by now?
Doesn't look like that from the speeches she's giving......

Hehe... I know, crazy isn't it? Either she is completely off her rocker, or she thinks the American public is, enough to not recall. I'm not sure which to believe, most likely both.

 

[Tomorrow]

Ding, Ding, Ding...You just said the magic mystery word of the day. Kuwait.

The first Gulf War was fought with a United Nations mandate to expel Saddam's forces from Kuwait. That war ended with an agreement by Saddam agreeing to certain conditions, most of which he ignored and repeatedly violated. Further to these violations, Saddam continued to re-build his military to prepare for another conflict.

The Second Gulf War was a direct result of these violations and could have been avoided by Saddam's compliance to any one of several U.N. resolutions. The Iraq war is still technically being done under a U.N. mandate, but without the support of key allies like France and Russia, which is no surprise since they were complicit in some of Saddam's violations of the U.N. imposed conditions (never mind the diplomatic/strategic gains France had hoped to achieve by defying the U.S.). The timing of the Second Gulf War was moved ahead due to the threat of WMD's, absolutely. That none were found is irrelevant. Not only did the U.S. believe Saddam was building a WMD program, the French also believed he had WMD's and so did the U.N. Hell, even Hillary Clinton believed at the time that Saddam had WMD's and supported the war. I also suggest to you that the nations arguing that Saddam had WMD's knew for a fact that he had WMD's because 1) he used them on his own citizens and 2) these nations SOLD him the components to create WMD's in the first place. The question is not "did Saddam have WMD's"? We know he did. The question is "where did Saddam's WMD's go"?

On another note, somebody said that the U.S. was out of Afghanistan which is not entirely correct. If I am not mistaken, the 101st Airborne and the 10th Mountain division are still there, along with a sizable force from Canada's PPCLI.

The entire world believed that there were WMDs in Iraq. As Dave correctly points out, the French and Russians had big economic reasons for not wanting to participate in the U.N. sponsored incursion.

But it's funny, isn't it?! One of the few U.S. lawmakers who didn't vote to move forward with the military sanction, in spite of overwhelming evidence that Iraq had WMDs, was Oh Bama. Now he's proud of that fact because WMDs weren't found. (Luckily for his political aspirations they probably made their way to Syria.)

So there's your potential U.S. President. Despite all known factors that Iraq posed a great danger, had recently used WMDs, and had consistently violated and refused world-voted demands for full disclosure and on-site investigations .... this senator didn't want to do anything about it. Yippie and zippity-doo-dah. I can't wait to see what he'd do as a president during a crisis with Iran. Maybe talk Iran's President Imanutjob to death.

There you go....a new take on the old axiom...."Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer." If this guy gets elected....well, we'll have deserved whatever we get.

 

[Davemcc]

The entire world believed that there were WMDs in Iraq. As Dave correctly points out, the French and Russians had big economic reasons for not wanting to participate in the U.N. sponsored incursion.

But it's funny, isn't it?! One of the few U.S. lawmakers who didn't vote to move forward with the military sanction, in spite of overwhelming evidence that Iraq had WMDs, was Oh Bama. Now he's proud of that fact because WMDs weren't found. (Luckily for his political aspirations they probably made their way to Syria.)

So there's your potential U.S. President. Despite all known factors that Iraq posed a great danger, had recently used WMDs, and had consistently violated and refused world-voted demands for full disclosure and on-site investigations .... this senator didn't want to do anything about it. Yippie and zippity-doo-dah. I can't wait to see what he'd do as a president during a crisis with Iran. Maybe talk Iran's President Imanutjob to death.

There you go....a new take on the old axiom...."Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer." If this guy gets elected....well, we'll have deserved whatever we get.

Thank you. Sometimes I think the history of these issues falls on deaf ears or is intentionally forgotten or ignored. On the other hand, some of our posters may be too young to remember the first Gulf War and the recurrent diplomatic failures that led to the second Gulf War. A lot of this discussion makes sense only if you assume that the posters don't know, or don't want to be reminded of the history of events that led us to the current situation.

 

[haraldo]

Hehe... I know, crazy isn't it? Either she is completely off her rocker, or she thinks the American public is, enough to not recall. I'm not sure which to believe, most likely both.

Well, most of us do not have one of the basic requirements for being a politician, we don't have schizophrenia

 

[Tarub]

I hope this is not stepping over the line.........



One thing we may do is to support team Tibet to get to the Chinese olympic games...
http://supportteamtibet.org/

Regards

Harald N

I dont think China is ready for this coming Summer Olympic. Here are the reason why:

 

[haraldo]

I dont think China is ready for this coming Summer Olympic. Here are the reason why:......................

Nice !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Halon451]

I dont think China is ready for this coming Summer Olympic. Here are the reason why

Freaking hilarious Tarub... awesome.

 

[Halon451]

No further comments from the peanut gallery on the topic at hand?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

No further comments from the peanut gallery on the topic at hand?

Sure. Let's tell China "Get out of Tibet now, or we nuke Beijing!"

 

[Halon451]

Sure. Let's tell China "Get out of Tibet now, or we nuke Beijing!"

LOL - don't forget though, they've got the bomb too.

 

[Davemcc]

No further comments from the peanut gallery on the topic at hand?

The whole discussion is over a moot point. The Chinese government cannot be convinced to quit Tibet, nor can they be expelled by force. China's persistent claim to Taiwan demonstrates their resolve to pursue what they see as their rightful claims on territory. Further to that, China has already announced that it will go to war and use nukes if anybody including the U.S. interferes with it's plans in Taiwan.

You can think of it like the Cold War with the USSR, which took nearly 50 years to release the countries of Eastern Europe from Soviet control. China will not fall prey to the USSR's downfall, however. The Chinese leaders are not stupid and have learned from the USSR's bankruptcy. Rather than draining their economy by strict adherence to communist principles, China is growing wealthier and economically more powerful every day through international trade. Unlike the USSR, China is here to stay, growing stronger and more determined to pursue it's national interests. Tibet??? Feel bad, but forget about actually doing anything. Tibet will be free when China decides it will be free and there's not a damn thing anybody can do to influence that.

 

[stratman]

The whole discussion is over a moot point. The Chinese government cannot be convinced to quit Tibet, nor can they be expelled by force. China's persistent claim to Taiwan demonstrates their resolve to pursue what they see as their rightful claims on territory. Further to that, China has already announced that it will go to war and use nukes if anybody including the U.S. interferes with it's plans in Taiwan.

You can think of it like the Cold War with the USSR, which took nearly 50 years to release the countries of Eastern Europe from Soviet control. China will not fall prey to the USSR's downfall, however. The Chinese leaders are not stupid and have learned from the USSR's bankruptcy. Rather than draining their economy by strict adherence to communist principles, China is growing wealthier and economically more powerful every day through international trade. Unlike the USSR, China is here to stay, growing stronger and more determined to pursue it's national interests. Tibet??? Feel bad, but forget about actually doing anything. Tibet will be free when China decides it will be free and there's not a damn thing anybody can do to influence that.

As always well put. And I'll throw some food for thought: unlike Russia, China has no oil, but possesses a massive army and plenty of nukes....want to follow the logic progression of those circumstances? When the feces hit the wind blower and it will (as oil won't last forever), I wonder how many will blame Bush for the coming war?

 

[Davemcc]

As always well put. And I'll throw some food for thought: unlike Russia, China has no oil, but possesses a massive army and plenty of nukes....want to follow the logic progression of those circumstances? When the feces hit the wind blower and it will (as oil won't last forever), I wonder how many will blame Bush for the coming war?

China is using it's vast reserves of surplus cash to buy up rights to minerals and resources around the world. By the time push comes to shove, China will legitimately own the resources it needs, but the market prices for these resources will escalate to unaffordable levels to those nations having to buy them on the market. China is placing itself in an ideal position for resource competition.

 

[stratman]

China is using it's vast reserves of surplus cash to buy up rights to minerals and resources around the world. By the time push comes to shove, China will legitimately own the resources it needs, but the market prices for these resources will escalate to unaffordable levels to those nations having to buy them on the market. China is placing itself in an ideal position for resource competition.

I believe they have the contract to run the Panama Canal, luckily that's not a strategic point for the US. Thanks to Jimmuh, we gave it away. Strange he didn't give Gitmo away, he must be kicking himself in the peaNUTS for not letting Castro get his paws on that piece of non-strategic real estate.

 

[Halon451]

I wonder how many will blame Bush for the coming war?

Ignorance is plentiful these days, Strat, as you know. People in this country are afflicted with tunnel vision, and are easily swayed by liberal media outlets, Hollywood celebrities jumping on the bandwagon, and partisan politics without the benefit of seeing the whole picture. That is what is so frustrating about all of this, IMO.

 

[stratman]

Ignorance is plentiful these days, Strat, as you know. People in this country are afflicted with tunnel vision, and are easily swayed by liberal media outlets, Hollywood celebrities jumping on the bandwagon, and partisan politics without the benefit of seeing the whole picture. That is what is so frustrating about all of this, IMO.

Isn't it? Since when did we let Hollywood run foreign policy? I remember seeing old reels of Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gables and other superstars of the day doing their part for the war effort. Stewart, if I'm not mistaken, was an Army Air Corps pilot who held a captain's rank. Can you imagine that today? Sean Penn strapping to an F/A 18 and doing a commercial for the country and the troops in the middle east? What are the odds?? We've become a nation of wimps, complainers, lazy-assed, cry babies that are worried what the world's opinion of us might be, politicians are more concerned with public image than policy, we're witnessing the last chapter of Rome, look to the East for the New Masters, and we're to blame we gave away our power in the name of political expedience and political correctness.

 

[Halon451]

Isn't it? Since when did we let Hollywood run foreign policy? I remember seeing old reels of Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gables and other superstars of the day doing their part for the war effort. Stewart, if I'm not mistaken, was an Army Air Corps pilot who held a captain's rank. Can you imagine that today? Sean Penn strapping to an F/A 18 and doing a commercial for the country and the troops in the middle east? What are the odds?? We've become a nation of wimps, complainers, lazy-assed, cry babies that are worried what the world's opinion of us might be, politicians are more concerned with public image than policy, we're witnessing the last chapter of Rome, look to the East for the New Masters, and we're to blame we gave away our power in the name of political expedience and political correctness.

Well put. No, instead we have Sean Penn making house calls to Hugo Chavez, like they're old pals. It makes me sick to my stomach. Makes me even sicker still that people are still considering voting for Obama despite his ties with this Wright fellow, who is obviously full of hatred and discontent for America. But that's food for a different meal I suppose...

 

[Tomorrow]

Well put. No, instead we have Sean Penn making house calls to Hugo Chavez, like they're old pals. It makes me sick to my stomach. Makes me even sicker still that people are still considering voting for Obama despite his ties with this Wright fellow, who is obviously full of hatred and discontent for America. But that's food for a different meal I suppose...

Let us not forget Oh Bama's wife, who stated after a primary victory, "For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of America."

Gosh, after over 200 years, finally America has something to be proud of.