When is justice to be served?

[haraldo]

I hope this is not stepping over the line.........

While we are sitting around here wondering what we can do to increase our living-standard by 0.001% and we are complaining and nitpicking about issues that are like ripples on the ocean... The interest rate is too high... the interest rate is too low... My God how expensive the gas is by now... I can only go to restaurants three days a week, it's just terrible, I can't afford anything anymore... The hi-fi stuff is too expensive... The world is coming to and end because CD's are compressed... DRM is killing me…

These are merely ripples on the water and hardly anything that matters in the great perspective.

While we complain about nothingness, people out there are being shot dead and murdered and slaughtered... Their offence is stating their opinion against a regime that's possibly more violent than anything we have seen for a long time. What does the public do? Nothing, we don't even care because it doesn't affect the US or EU economy.
Is it so that we only care when it directly affects our economy?

On September 27 1987, about 150-200 lay people and 26 monks demonstrated in the street of Lhasa. They were peacefully shouting "Tibet is independent" and asking the Chinese to quit Tibet. However, the Chinese Security Forces arrested 36 demonstrators, including monks. This was followed by a series of other demonstrations. An estimated crowd of 2000 Tibetan people gathered in front of Jokhang Temple in Lhasa during one such demonstration. The Chinese police brutally beat Tibetan monks and many Tibetans were killed mercilessly. One monk was beaten to death inside the police station that aroused more demonstrators to join in. These demonstrators snatched and burned the guns of the Chinese instead of using against them. The International Communities were a witness to this height of Non-Violence in action by the Tibetans against the extreme brutality of the Chinese Army.

Now things are seriously escalating in Tibet again and the Chinese are blaming Dalai Lama about the violence. When is this going to stop.

Tibet is not, have never been and will never be Chinese territory. The Chinese have illegally invaded another country and retains a terror regime that's possibly worse than anything the world has ever seen.
The Nobel committee awarded the Peace Price to Dalai Lama for his non violent work, what has happened before or after this… When did George W. Bush ever speak up to the liberty of a people that's unlawfully been under occupation since 1951?

We have an obligation to speak up and say that this is not acceptable!

One thing we may do is to support team Tibet to get to the Chinese olympic games...
http://supportteamtibet.org/

Regards

Harald N

 

[mike c]

if its political/religious/racial, you can expect it to cross the line really fast.

IMHO, these do not belong on this forum and even the steam vent.

 

[Halon451]

if its political/religious/racial, you can expect it to cross the line really fast.

IMHO, these do not belong on this forum and even the steam vent.

Well, it's going to happen either way Mike, I'm sure you know that.

To the OP: I will say this - we've got more than enough fish to fry at the moment, don't you think? Both our economy and our military are stretched thin, and our people are tired, confused, angry and otherwise morally self-centered when it comes down to it. Preach on brother, but be prepared to battle. It's been known to get nasty around here.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Both our economy and our military are stretched thin,

Gee, I wonder why?
No matter who wins the election, they will almost have to be better than the shrub, and maybe they will finally put an end to this pointless, wasteful war. (Meanwile, we are stuck with the idiot for close to another year.)

 

[Pyrrho]

I hope this is not stepping over the line.........

While we are sitting around here wondering what we can do to increase our living-standard by 0.001% and we are complaining and nitpicking about issues that are like ripples on the ocean... The interest rate is too high... the interest rate is too low... My God how expensive the gas is by now... I can only go to restaurants three days a week, it's just terrible, I can't afford anything anymore... The hi-fi stuff is too expensive... The world is coming to and end because CD's are compressed... DRM is killing me…

These are merely ripples on the water and hardly anything that matters in the great perspective.

While we complain about nothingness, people out there are being shot dead and murdered and slaughtered... Their offence is stating their opinion against a regime that's possibly more violent than anything we have seen for a long time. What does the public do? Nothing, we don't even care because it doesn't affect the US or EU economy.
Is it so that we only care when it directly affects our economy?

On September 27 1987, about 150-200 lay people and 26 monks demonstrated in the street of Lhasa. They were peacefully shouting "Tibet is independent" and asking the Chinese to quit Tibet. However, the Chinese Security Forces arrested 36 demonstrators, including monks. This was followed by a series of other demonstrations. An estimated crowd of 2000 Tibetan people gathered in front of Jokhang Temple in Lhasa during one such demonstration. The Chinese police brutally beat Tibetan monks and many Tibetans were killed mercilessly. One monk was beaten to death inside the police station that aroused more demonstrators to join in. These demonstrators snatched and burned the guns of the Chinese instead of using against them. The International Communities were a witness to this height of Non-Violence in action by the Tibetans against the extreme brutality of the Chinese Army.

Now things are seriously escalating in Tibet again and the Chinese are blaming Dalai Lama about the violence. When is this going to stop.

Tibet is not, have never been and will never be Chinese territory. The Chinese have illegally invaded another country and retains a terror regime that's possibly worse than anything the world has ever seen.
The Nobel committee awarded the Peace Price to Dalai Lama for his non violent work, what has happened before or after this… When did George W. Bush ever speak up to the liberty of a people that's unlawfully been under occupation since 1951?

We have an obligation to speak up and say that this is not acceptable!

One thing we may do is to support team Tibet to get to the Chinese olympic games...
http://supportteamtibet.org/

Regards

Harald N

Of course, you are right that most of the things that are discussed here are not the most important things in the world. Indeed, the site is, with the exception of the Steam Vent, devoted to audio and video products, which, when compared with certain other things, seem a bit trivial. Whether such sites should exist or not is something that can be debated, though I do not have a problem with people spending some of their time on pleasure rather than more "serious" pursuits; otherwise, I would not be here. I personally think that a balance of serious and non-serious topics are good to pursue, but, of course, a case might be made that one should only deal with things that "really" matter. If you hold that position, I do not wish to argue against you, nor do I wish to defend my position on this subject. Everyone may regard this merely as an expression of my personal preference, rather than advice for how they should live their lives.

 

[haraldo]

Gee, I wonder why?
No matter who wins the election, they will almost have to be better than the shrub, and maybe they will finally put an end to this pointless, wasteful war. (Meanwile, we are stuck with the idiot for close to another year.)

Iraq has now become the most dangerous country in the world (which it previously was NOT)

 

[Halon451]

Iraq has now become the most dangerous country in the world (which it previously was NOT)

Except of course for the residents who lived there. Just ask the Kurds, what few of them weren't slaughtered by their own government. So, maybe I'm not understanding Haraldo - you're asking for us to take an interest in what is going on b/n China and Tibet, but what makes you think it will be any different than what is currently happening in Iraq? Why should we care anymore about Tibetan monks than we do a country full of Iraqi's?

 

[Halon451]

Gee, I wonder why?
No matter who wins the election, they will almost have to be better than the shrub, and maybe they will finally put an end to this pointless, wasteful war. (Meanwile, we are stuck with the idiot for close to another year.)

LOL - I've got to admire your preserverance Joe, if nothing else. You'll go down with the sinking ship if it's the last thing you do.

 

[haraldo]

Why should we care anymore about Tibetan monks than we do a country full of Iraqi's?

No, you shouldn't care more about Tibetan monks than a country full of Iraqi's

I just believe there's a situation the world has forgotten about......

 

[Halon451]

No, you shouldn't care more about Tibetan monks than a country full of Iraqi's

I just believe there's a situation the world has forgotten about......

Okay, just wondering. You seemed to get a little up in arms over Iraq, but I don't see any difference. Oppression and tyranny tend to have way too many parallels no matter the geographical location of such activities. Just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, so to speak.

FWIW, I've been paying attention to the current situation over there, so not everyone in the world is unaware.

 

[markw]

I see you're fom Norway, friend.

while I agree with you in spirit, don't you have a group of European nations that are united for economic and defensive reasons that you could appeal to?

As others have mentioned, we're stretched mighty thin right now and, if memory serves me well, whenever we do decide to involve ourselves with other countries we catch flak from all sides. Of course, when that messiness in the Balkens raised it's head, all of Europe called for our intervention and now even that's coming back to haunt us.

We may just sit this one out and see what you guys can do here. While you're at it, you might want to take a shot at solving Africa's affiars as well. Afterall, Europe has had much more infuence there over the past few hundred years than we have.

So, have at it, big guy. We're behind you in spirit and will be cheering you on from the sidelines.

 

[Davemcc]

I agree that China's control of Tibet is illegitimate and oppressive. It should be condemned the same as China's desire to take Taiwan. It is no different than Soviet control of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Etc. or Iraq's occupation of Kuwait.

Sadly, in the world of pragmatic politics, there are things that you can do and things you cannot. One thing you cannot do is go to war with China, over Tibet, Taiwan or any other issue short of direct hostility to the U.S. The Cold War was about defending oppressed people from the Soviets without actually going to war and it was Reagan's genius that brought about their liberation. China will require the same multi-generational dedication to freedom, but may take much longer because of China's strategic assets, population and wealth among them. The surest, perhaps the only way to weaken China would be for all developed, democratic nations to embargo China the way Cuba is currently isolated. Every Wal-Mart purchase or Chinese product you buy enriches China and strengthens it's hold on Tibet and jeopardizes Taiwan.

Where it is diplomatically or militarily possible, oppressed people can be freed by armed force. Where that is impossible, other means must be adopted even if they seem slow and ineffective.

 

[haraldo]

FWIW, I've been paying attention to the current situation over there, so not everyone in the world is unaware.

Great ) I just don't think things will improve until some major leaders start asking very difficult questions to the Chinese government... and provide measures that's got financial impact...

In my humble opinion: One of he issues of what we see in Iraq is that nobody there knows what democracy is, and they need time to learn how it works... This is impossible to do overnight... Things may improve but people need to learn about these things, perhaps Iraq will be a couple of Countries essentially where people can live in peace and harmony, I honestly believe that's what regular citizens want there, like most other places in the world.....

Regards

Harald N

 

[mike c]

aside from democracy, you should try to convert their religion as well. because having a religion different than what you have is wrong.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

You'll go down with the sinking ship if it's the last thing you do.

Good analogy. The US is the ship, Iraq is the iceberg, and Dubya is the captain yelling "full speed ahead!"

 

[Halon451]

Good analogy. The US is the ship, Iraq is the iceberg, and Dubya is the captain yelling "full speed ahead!"

Funny... I actually did laugh at that. But I think it's the liberal propagandist, left-wing Bush haters who will rip apart the hull and send us to the bottom long before an iceberg ever did the job. And we're not the Titanic - we're built to smash through icebergs. What we can't defend is treason from within our own borders.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

And we're not the Titanic - we're built to smash through icebergs.

Actually, the builders of the Titanic made similar claims.

 

[haraldo]

Sadly, in the world of pragmatic politics, there are things that you can do and things you cannot......

I reckon.... history proves that wars do NOT resolve such things, and noone would go to war against China

Diplomacy could work, it may take 20 years.....

 

[markw]

I reckon.... history proves that wars do NOT resolve such things, and noone would go to war against China

Diplomacy could work, it may take 20 years.....

Well, war did have somewhat of an effect on that madman running Germany from the early 30's up until 1945. Do you really think politics would resolved the issues he presented to the world? Ask Chamberlain. Wasn't Norway counting on remaining neutral then? How did politics help Norway?

 

[OttoMatic]

Okay, just wondering. You seemed to get a little up in arms over Iraq, but I don't see any difference. Oppression and tyranny...

I think the difference here is the reason we were "sold" the Iraq war -- it was because Iraq had WMD and then oppression and tyranny was an "oh yeah, and by the way" side note. If Bush had said we want to rescue the Iraqis from Saddam because they are oppressed, and if he clearly stated that there was nothing to do with Saddam being linked to Al Qaeda and 9/11, I don't think we would be at war in Iraq.

Instead, we were told (and told, and told, and told, until people actually believed) that Iraq was linked to WMD and 9/11 and whatever else. I strongly believe that 1) most Iraqis were better off as they were (at least for the time being), 2) Iraq/Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, 3) there is no evidence of WMD found in Iraq (regardless of what this guy or that guy said, there was never any "proof"), 4) "Al Qaeda in Iraq" didn't exist previous to us starting the war and if they had tried to organize in Iraq, Saddam would have given them the smackdown. We still don't have binLaden, and you'd better be sure that they are planning some type of attack, while we run around in circles in Iraq chasing demons of our own creation.

When that attack occurs, we can all blame George Bush for focusing on the wrong thing, just as those that like to assign blame have assigned it to Clinton for not doing enough when binLaden and company were poking at us during the Clinton years. The sad thing is, we definitely, clearly and positively have a reason to kill binLaden and dismantle his operations, but we choose to spread ourselves so thin that we cannot succeed in our primary mission. Pathetic leadership.

As to the sinking ship... It looks like the war, the economy, Dubya and the public's opinion of same are the things that are sinking. My hope and belief in this country have also taken a hit, but I believe that with some changes, things will get better again.