Yahoos protest

[Johnd]

Nobody's born racist

Yes. And in this country it festers the more timid one is about the very topic of racism. Why can this topic not be rationally discussed?

 

[Highlander]

...in this country it festers the more timid one is about the very topic of racism. Why can this topic not be rationally discussed?

Political Correctness?

 

[Johnd]

Political Correctness?

Poppycock I say! There is no such thing. What needs to be said, needs to be said. Tact, sensitivity, yes.

 

[Johnd]

It seems arrogance is plentiful around here. John is "rightly self-righteous" and you're wailing about the "ignorant...baboons in this country".

I find it somewhat humorous and to watch a presumptuous bunch of white guys intellectualize over the emotional motivations and underpinnings of black civil rights leaders.

I'm all for dialog, as it is truly important for individual and societal growth. But can we lose the hubris, please?

If you can't stand the steam...get out of the vent!

That's what the vent is for. And your term of intellectualize is simplistic. If one listens to and reads MLK, Sharpton, JJ, one is afforded the opportunity to deliberate with knowledge and reason their ambitions and desires. I am not simply "intellectualizing" here, or at other times I discuss this topic.

It's funny, every one else that has posted here has had something to contribute. You? You sidestep with ad hominems and do not discuss the topic. Spoiler!

 

[Highlander]

There is no such thing.

The current state of much of the western world is in no small part proof positive that there is such a thing.

What needs to be said, needs to be said.

Agreed. I too do not subscribe to Political Correctness. Course, one immediately opens oneself up to accusations of arrogance etc but hey! Bring it on I say! Bring on the rrrrrrobust debate!

 

[Johnd]

Agreed. I too do not subscribe to Political Correctness. Course, one immediately opens oneself up to accusations of arrogance etc but hey! Bring it on I say! Bring on the rrrrrrobust debate!

Yes. Well. Bring the naysayers (ahem) on, I say.

Tiptoeing through the manure pile still gets your toes dirty. Timidity begets fear, fear begets strife. What am I even writing this to you for Robbie? I've sat in on some of those Parliamentary open debates. Ruthless you Brits are!

 

[Halon451]

But yes...sorry to say...talking of others as "ignorant baboons" because of what they enjoy is arrogant...even if it is...maybe especially if it is...a strongly held opinion. We're all subject to that weakness on occasion. (Call it yet another face of "ignorance".) The point is that those kinds of comments demean people and turn them off to important points of dialog. Don't you think?

Well, therein lies my own weakness then, for which I will whole-heartedly admit, as I am full of flaws. Becoming angered by what I see and forming generalizations with no apparent direction is surely one of them. Hoooooowever - the manner in which I spit accusations is one that people can take as they see it; by either identification, acceptance or rejection. I certainly would never pre-judge a person in a one-on-one basis, as I really honestly try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Saying something like that immediately calls in every person's mind the last "ignorant SOB" they had to deal with in life, whether they realize it or not. And every one has an opinion on that, believe you me. Why? Because no one is perfect. So maybe that makes everyone prejudiced in some form or another...

The name-calling is futile. The discussion is not.

Again, I wasn't calling any one particular person a name. I was describing my own personal take on society as a whole. Yes, it is time to wake up in America and smell the coffee burning.

 

[Johnd]

Well, therein lies my own weakness then, for which I will whole-heartedly admit, as I am full of flaws. Becoming angered by what I see and forming generalizations with no apparent direction is surely one of them. Hoooooowever - the manner in which I spit accusations is one that people can take as they see it; by either identification, acceptance or rejection. I certainly would never pre-judge a person in a one-on-one basis, as I really honestly try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Saying something like that immediately calls in every person's mind the last "ignorant SOB" they had to deal with in life, whether they realize it or not. And every one has an opinion on that, believe you me. Why? Because no one is perfect. So maybe that makes everyone prejudiced in some form or another...

Again, I wasn't calling any one particular person a name. I was describing my own personal take on society as a whole. Yes, it is time to wake up in America and smell the coffee burning.

Enough already Halon. You've performed your contrition to my satisfaction. Oh, that's right, hubris, and conceit.

I think tomorrow (still promised to no one ) is upset that I've actually had some agree with me. Oh no!!!

Truthfully though, you misspoke (in your post), you've recanted that one term. Done. Let's get back on point rather than the sideshow that's been spoonfed us.

 

[Tomorrow]

Again, I wasn't calling any one particular person a name. I was describing my own personal take on society as a whole.

Racists describe their own personal take on society as a whole, too...even without any accusatory comment toward any individual. Does that make it right?

Halon, you were judging a class of people who enjoy Brittney sightings, e.g, as ignorant baboons. They're not my cup of tea either, but your description exactly demonstrates my point that generalizations can generate cultural divisiveness. Isn't that what you wish to avoid? Racism is an extreme example of that process. And I believe it is unworthy of the reasoned discussion you normally promote.

You can call it a personal weakness if you wish. Does that excuse the behavior? And as I said, I think we all are prone to such foibles. Should we not try to improve? So before any of us get into righteous indignation about racism, perhaps we should check out a mirror.

 

[Johnd]

Racists describe their own personal take on society as a whole, too...even without any accusatory comment toward any individual. Does that make it right?

Halon, you were judging a class of people who enjoy Brittney sightings, e.g, as ignorant baboons. They're not my cup of tea either, but your description exactly demonstrates my point that generalizations can generate cultural divisiveness. Isn't that what you wish to avoid? Racism is an extreme example of that process. And I believe it is unworthy of the reasoned discussion you normally promote.

You can call it a personal weakness if you wish. Does that excuse the behavior? And as I said, I think we all are prone to such foibles. Should we not try to improve? So before any of us get into righteous indignation about racism, perhaps we should check out a mirror.

Absolutely. Good advice Tomorrow.

We live in a society of discontents and malcontents, do we not?.

Stressed out? Uptight? Don't worry about tomorrow, just deal with the here and now. And do not put off for tomorrow, what can be accomplished today. For those maladjusted misfits that cannot delve into a rational discussion, may a suggest some refined listening? How about some Easy Blues by Jimi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCI117W5QUY&feature=related

 

[Halon451]

Racists describe their own personal take on society as a whole, too...even without any accusatory comment toward any individual. Does that make it right?

Halon, you were judging a class of people who enjoy Brittney sightings, e.g, as ignorant baboons. They're not my cup of tea either, but your description exactly demonstrates my point that generalizations can generate cultural divisiveness. Isn't that what you wish to avoid? Racism is an extreme example of that process. And I believe it is unworthy of the reasoned discussion you normally promote.

You can call it a personal weakness if you wish. Does that excuse the behavior? And as I said, I think we all are prone to such foibles. Should we not try to improve? So before any of us get into righteous indignation about racism, perhaps we should check out a mirror.

Absolutely - I think that everyone should always strive to improve upon their own shortcomings - if we did not, we would still be living in the dark ages. Maybe I picked on the celebrity gossip thing on account of reading today on msn.com that 'Paris Hilton believes Britney is a good mother' (words to that effect), and it's kind of set me off for the day. Either way: I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter, and one can definitely see the parallels between such blanket statements and more extreme racism, but I would not hold myself in judgment because again, I will not/can not apologize for feeling that indeed too many people simply don't care about the s**t that really affects them the most as citizens. To take it a step further - the more who don't care, eventually comes back to affect you and I, in some shape or form - as I predict it will...

So I guess that's where I was going with that - good point though. I don't ride a horse too high, so when someone knocks me down it doesn't hurt as bad.

 

[stratman]

I'll add methane to this volcano. Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president? I believe what people speak in public, in many instances, is a facade, it is my opinion that this country is ready for neither, I believe that deep down the average white person would not want a black president, ditto a woman in the White House. What do you think?

 

[highfihoney]

I'll add methane to this volcano. Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president? I believe what people speak in public, in many instances, is a facade, it is my opinion that this country is ready for neither, I believe that deep down the average white person would not want a black president, ditto a woman in the White House. What do you think?

I agree that as a country were not ready for either,i however would vote for Hillary if a was a voter or even believed in the election process.

In my adult lifetime there has been so much seperation between the political parties,so much graft & corruption,so much back scratching & pork barrell spending that she could not possibly do a worse job than the men she followed.

Plus i always thought she had a huge set of balls

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I'll add methane to this volcano. Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president?

I'm ready!!

I'd like to see a black woman win the presidency in November and her name is Condi.

She'd get my vote

 

[Johnd]

I'll add methane to this volcano. Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president? I believe what people speak in public, in many instances, is a facade, it is my opinion that this country is ready for neither, I believe that deep down the average white person would not want a black president, ditto a woman in the White House. What do you think?

I think it doesn't matter (and shouldn't matter) in the grand scheme of things. I vote for the person...their plaform...their ideals. Not their gender or race.

Some voters in the South Carolina Primary were questioning:
"Would Black voters vote for Obama if he were white?"

We clearly live in a racist society. Only when one's race becomes a nonissue will we no longer be racist.

 

[Highlander]

Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president?...it is my opinion that this country is ready for neither...

I agree that as a country were not ready for either...

If you can ask such a question, or answer it, isn't that a terrible reflection of your society?

 

[Halon451]

I'll add methane to this volcano. Is this country ready for a black president? Or a woman president? I believe what people speak in public, in many instances, is a facade, it is my opinion that this country is ready for neither, I believe that deep down the average white person would not want a black president, ditto a woman in the White House. What do you think?

That's a good question strat - I'm not sure what the general consensus would be on that, but if you take a look at the current polls, Hillary so far is not doing too terribly with the country as a whole, if that tells you anything.

Would I vote for her? Hell-to-the-no, not because of the fact that she is a woman, but because I think she is completely wrong for this country. Would I vote for Obama? Again, no - but not as strongly as I feel about Hillary, and mostly on his inexperience with foreign policy, and his tendency to be swayed by the political currents, much like the rest of the current candidate pool.

I would welcome with open arms anyone who I feel could truly lead this country back to greatness; among them would be a.) Colin Powell (who of course is black), and b.) As Buckeye mentioned, Condoleezza Rice (who of course is both woman and black.

So yes I, personally am more than ready for either to happen, because a great candidate is a great candidate, regardless.

 

[Halon451]

If you can ask such a question, or answer it, isn't that a terrible reflection of your society?

No, it's not - I think it's the opposite, I think it demonstrates a progression beyond the former school of thought, when no one would even think about considering a black or woman President. We've lived for 200 years as a country with a solid brick wall between that certain demographic and the top spot in our government without ever thinking of questioning it. I think it shows that the playing field is indeed becoming more level in modern times.

 

[stratman]

If you can ask such a question, or answer it, isn't that a terrible reflection of your society?

Hey Robbie,


Yes, but the fact that the question CAN be asked says a lot too. After all isn't it politically correct not to ask such a question, and if we're going to put racism behind us this issue has to be engaged. I venture to say this country has become quietly and passively racist as opposed to the 60s when racism was evident. Our society isn't the only one affected by this, Europe and Asia are just as racist, all you do is pull back the veneer a bit and it's there.

As for me, color has never been an issue as long as they spouse my political philosophy, Margaret Thacher made an excellent PM, if she were an American running for office I would vote for her.

 

[Johnd]

Yes, but the fact that the question CAN be asked says a lot too.

Yes, true. But the fact that the matter of race (or gender) is ever raised denotes discrimination. Ultimately, these matters should never be an issue if we want to be in an "all men are created equal" society.

Like I wrote before, many Blacks are not in Obama's camp because they feel he's "too white", and his supporters are now being asked would you vote for him if he were white. The inferred alternative being of course Clinton.