Yahoos protest

[Rickster71]

John, if you or I lined our pockets, with the money that belonged to a charity; that we were running.
What do you think would happen to us?
Me thinks, we would be incarcerated.

 

[Johnd]

John, if you or I lined our pockets, with the money that belonged to a charity; that we were running.
What do you think would happen to us?
Me thinks, we would be incarcerated.

Yes. And that's as it should be.

But wasn't the money you speak of given to JJ's foundation, and not him directly? And if he establishes a distributorship and then employees x number of African Americans there, does that not further his objective?

I mean, one could say the same thing about the allowances afforded American Indians...gaming.

I for one want no sympathy...or hand outs. In fact, I'm quite an unsympathetic figure. And I'm ok with that.

Reverse discrimination is just as wrong as discrimination. And I hate that term. Whoever came up with that nomenclature anyway? Reverse infers that it's undoing a previous wrong...or that it is somehow not as bad as discrimination. Let's call it what it is: discrimination. Plain and simple.

 

[Rickster71]

Yes. And that's as it should be.

But wasn't the money you speak of given to JJ's foundation, and not him directly?

Yes, (wink, wink, nod, nod.)
That's also how we would do it, in our alleged charity.

And if he establishes a distributorship and then employees x number of African Americans there, does that not further his objective?

Indeed, it was quite the shell game.

 

[stratman]

I have to disagree with your take on Mr. Jackson.

How soon we forget.

For decades Jesse Jackson has intimidated numerous companies into
donating hundreds of millions of dollars to his organization by
suing, protesting, and boycotting them under the guise of
redressing racism. All the while, Jackson benefited himself
first and foremost. Among the big players are Texaco, Coca-
Cola, Ford, Anheuser-Busch and several telecommunications
giants.
As early as 1982 Jackson launched a boycott of Anheuser-
Busch because it purportedly did not have enough black-owned
distributorships nationwide. The beer company eventually
contributed $510,000 to Jackson and established a $10 million
fund to help blacks buy distributorships. When Jackson’s two
sons (Yusef and Jonathan) purchased a River North distributorship
in Chicago for an estimated $30 million, Jackson dropped
the boycott and became the company’s best friend.

Jackson has gone so far as to lobby the Federal
Communications Commission to block companies seeking
government approval to merge, until they donate money to his
organization. In the late 1990s, he opposed the merger of
telecommunications giants SBC and Ameritech, saying it would
be detrimental to low-income customers.
Money changed Jackson’s mind, however. He became the
deal’s biggest cheerleader when the companies donated
$500,000 to one of his Rainbow/PUSH funds.

Shortly after that, he opposed a merger of AT&T and TCI but,
once again, reversed his position after AT&T wrote a $425,000
check. Fearing the wrath of Jackson’s racism accusations,
other telecommunications giants – including GTE and
Bell-Atlantic – followed suit with big contributions.

Isn't this called corporate extortion?

 

[highfihoney]

White people cower at the mere though of being called a racist.

Im not so sure cower is the right line of thinking as i see it but i do understand what you meant,normally i dont like to play on words to be so exact but cower imply's cowardice & i dont think thats the case,atleast not with me or most white people i know.

 

[Halon451]

Im not so sure cower is the right line of thinking as i see it but i do understand what you meant,normally i dont like to play on words to be so exact but cower imply's cowardice & i dont think thats the case,atleast not with me or most white people i know.

Well, cower may be too strong a word to describe most people when it comes to this. I think most people simply choose to avoid inviting any kind of controversy into their lives by stating their true opinions. If that defines cowardice, then a duck is a duck and call it like you see it.

When white people speak to white people about these things, it seems to be a lot easier for them to open up their true thoughts - because of the reduced risk. So, group those same people together in a room with a mixed racial quantity and suddenly the cat's got their tongue. That doesn't mean that their opinions, views or thoughts are racist by definition, but just because they are about race, they become afraid of offending someone, or angering someone. What we're discussing here isn't racist at all - yet, I feel that many others wouldn't dare take up in this conversation were it under different circumstances, live and in-person (not referencing any of you here, just saying..)

Any good solution to a problem didn't encounter strong, heated debate at some point, and the more people shy away from expressing what they feel, the longer it will be before better ideas are presented, and maybe some people would learn to respect the opposite race a little more.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

When I was a freshman in college, I took an "Ethnic Studies" course as an elective back in the 1980s..
(I think it was a freshman requirement, but can't remember for sure)

So anyway..... the only nugget I kept from that course was the professors course discussion on racism. He stated that, BY DEFINITION, minorities cannot be racist!! He stated that for an individual to be racist, being a member of the majority race is a strict requirement. Heck....even as a naive punk 19yr old, I was easily able to determine he was full of sh*t.

(and we were tested on this material)

Twenty years later, I think the course professor may have been Rev Sharpton's brother from a different mother

 

[Halon451]

When I was a freshman in college, I took an "Ethnic Studies" course as an elective back in the 1980s..
(I think it was a freshman requirement, but can't remember for sure)

So anyway..... the only nugget I kept from that course was the professors course discussion on racism. He stated that, BY DEFINITION, minorities cannot be racist!! He stated that for an individual to be racist, being a member of the majority race is a strict requirement. Heck....even as a naive punk 19yr old, I was easily able to determine he was full of sh*t.

(and we were tested on this material)

Twenty years later, I think the course professor may have been Rev Sharpton's brother from a different mother

It's alarming how many people get sucked into such ways of thinking without once deploying a little common sense, isn't it? There have been many stories of college professors (and high school teachers) pushing their own agendas onto their students, while doing everything BUT delivering knowledge in an objective fashion. It does make me feel better when the students stand up and speak out against it.

 

[Rickster71]

It's understandable how all of us, as young college kids, respected and believed our professors.
They catch students young and naive, and indoctrinate them into the arts of Political Correctness.
Sadly, many take the bait.
Or should I say 'The Emperor's New Clothes'

 

[Halon451]

It's understandable how all of us, as young college kids, respected and believed our professors.
They catch students young and naive, and indoctrinate them into the arts of Political Correctness.
Sadly, many take the bait.
Or should I say 'The Emperor's New Clothes'

Yep - very well stated.

 

[Halon451]

Some group of yahoos down in Louisiana put their heads together and got the bright idea of staging an MLK protest...on MLK day no less! Well, this group of 50 separatist nitwits were met by a group of 100 counter protesters. Hmmmphhh. You may remember that this is the town (Jena, LA) where 6 black teenagers were arrested for the beating of one white teenager, and a huge protest was staged last fall. Ahh, the ill-laid plans of...

Dufuses!

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view.bg?articleid=1068088

Incidentally John, speaking of bait... Hook line and sinker!

 

[Johnd]

Incidentally John, speaking of bait... Hook line and sinker!

But where else can you go and have a civil conversation on such a hot topic? And I always find interesting others' pov. From questions come answers.

And I for one think it's ok to discuss these things. In fact, I think it's incumbent upon us if we want to advance. Many people remain stagnant in their beliefs and misconceptions...and unfortunately, this is one of those topics that is rife with ill-conceived notions, misbeliefs and a taboo mentality. People get in their corners and stay there. From discourse comes understanding.

Perfect segue for Obama (Osama as he is called by one of our favorite 'holics). I think it funny that most Blacks consider him "too white", and there is therefore a level of distrust...he's no longer true to the Black cause. Conversely, he's safe for many whites. It's unfortunate that this is the depth of our political candidates. Topics. It's truly sad on what platform most of our politicians are elected...and retain their tenure. Who amongst them dare discuss racial issues, a true plan for national healthcare, a true plan for our economic woes, our problems with crime, and our resultant fix of warehousing criminals (tenfold in the last 30 years...Tenfold!) And there is a cost for that warehousing, and it is not simply economic. Don't get me started Halon.

 

[Halon451]

LOL - you and I think alike John. I find it hard to not think about these things on a daily basis, when so many others revolve around a steady diet of celebrity gossip, and other frivolous B.S. that holds no real value other than short, immediate pacification for whatever intrigues their shallow thought processes.

Something like this topic has the rewarding potential of really bringing out the beast in someone - in a good way, because only when you strike a controversial chord, or take a jab under the surface of what makes most peope tick do you really start getting some fresh, honest and blunt ideas presented.

I watch the evening news and become angered by what I see, when to many -it's just another form of entertainment. If I took the suggestions of many, including my wife, to lighten up a little I might live longer, but I would no longer be true to my innermost drive mechanisms.

Oh, to be blissfully ignorant like the rest of the baboons in this country...

Don't get me started Halon.

Oh, we've only just begun to scratch this wretched surface!

 

[highfihoney]

(not referencing any of you here, just saying..)

Any good solution to a problem didn't encounter strong, heated debate at some point, and the more people shy away from expressing what they feel, the longer it will be before better ideas are presented, and maybe some people would learn to respect the opposite race a little more.

I know you were not refering to anybody as a coward,i also knew exactly what you meant by using the word "cower" as a descriptor,of which i agree btw but there's more to is than just avoidance,cowardace or blindness,fear is at the base of most white people's decision to take cover at the 1st sign of anything to do with racism.

I agree that good solutions require heavy debate but lets be honest,most people who are in a position in life to do something about whats wrong are afraid to do anything about it for fear of reprisal.

Even being accused of being a racist is a career killer on the spot,even if the accusations are 100% false & proven so its a death sentance to a persons dignity,career & standing in the community,alot of people use the racist accusation as a weapon,also alot of young people who are 100% PC in their daily live's are not experienced enough in life to distinguish between real racism from a poor choice of words,thus they falsely accuse many of being a racist,in any case its a death sentance for most & not many are willing to accept that risk.

I personally live my life in fear (to a point) of this accusation, which is the main reason i dont post some things on this forum that i'd love to share.

I should of emphasised that i believe its "survival mode" that i think people get into instead of picking apart your choice of the word cower,sorry

 

[Tomorrow]

LOL - you and I think alike John. I find it hard to not think about these things on a daily basis, when so many others revolve around a steady diet of celebrity gossip, and other frivolous B.S. that holds no real value other than short, immediate pacification for whatever intrigues their shallow thought processes.

Something like this topic has the rewarding potential of really bringing out the beast in someone - in a good way, because only when you strike a controversial chord, or take a jab under the surface of what makes most peope tick do you really start getting some fresh, honest and blunt ideas presented.

I watch the evening news and become angered by what I see, when to many -it's just another form of entertainment. If I took the suggestions of many, including my wife, to lighten up a little I might live longer, but I would no longer be true to my innermost drive mechanisms.

Oh, to be blissfully ignorant like the rest of the baboons in this country...



Oh, we've only just begun to scratch this wretched surface!

It seems arrogance is plentiful around here. John is "rightly self-righteous" and you're wailing about the "ignorant...baboons in this country".

I find it somewhat humorous and to watch a presumptuous bunch of white guys intellectualize over the emotional motivations and underpinnings of black civil rights leaders.

I'm all for dialog, as it is truly important for individual and societal growth. But can we lose the hubris, please?

 

[Halon451]

It seems arrogance is plentiful around here. John is "rightly self-righteous" and you're wailing about the "ignorant...baboons in this country".

I find it somewhat humorous and to watch a presumptuous bunch of white guys intellectualize over the emotional motivations and underpinnings of black civil rights leaders.

I'm all for dialog, as it is truly important for individual and societal growth. But can we lose the hubris, please?

Tomorrow - I'm not that cynical of a guy, at least I try not to be. But there are certain topics, certain things, certain elements of society that I feel very strongly about, and certain topics bring about those strong feelings. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. What you label as "arrogance" I call being strongly opinionated, and I will not apologize for that. Nor will I ever apologize for the way these certain things make me feel, whether it's anger, or joy. There's enough in life to have adequate supplies of both.

Yes, there is plenty of ignorance in this country, would you disagree?

Furthermore, I thought I would only rattle the chain a little more and get a reaction out of John with my last post to see if I could get him to the tipping point. It's all in fun, really - and I think John gets it and enjoys it as much as I do.

And who says we can't discuss civil rights leaders? Is that only meant to be a black topic?

 

[darien87]

When I was a freshman in college, I took an "Ethnic Studies" course as an elective back in the 1980s..
(I think it was a freshman requirement, but can't remember for sure)

So anyway..... the only nugget I kept from that course was the professors course discussion on racism. He stated that, BY DEFINITION, minorities cannot be racist!! He stated that for an individual to be racist, being a member of the majority race is a strict requirement. Heck....even as a naive punk 19yr old, I was easily able to determine he was full of sh*t.

How the hell does not being in a position of power, preclude you from being prejudiced against another group of people?!?!? That makes no sense. Being part of a racist majority just means that you're in a better position to do something with your racism. A poor white/black racist in Albama might not be able to keep whites/blacks from getting a job, but a rich white/black business owner in New York can sure stop the hiring of a new white/black employee. But that doesn't make him any more racist than the poor kid from Alabama.

 

[Highlander]

...the professors...stated that, BY DEFINITION, minorities cannot be racist!! He stated that for an individual to be racist, being a member of the majority race is a strict requirement.

That makes no sense.

Clearly it did to the professor, and I'd be willing to bet he was a professor for good reason.

Nobody's born racist; it's something you allow yourself to become. Perhaps the professor alluded to racism stemming from, at its root, selfishness from 'the haves' compared to the 'have nots'. Just a thought...

 

[Tomorrow]

Tomorrow - I'm not that cynical of a guy, at least I try not to be. But there are certain topics, certain things, certain elements of society that I feel very strongly about, and certain topics bring about those strong feelings. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. What you label as "arrogance" I call being strongly opinionated, and I will not apologize for that. Nor will I ever apologize for the way these certain things make me feel, whether it's anger, or joy. There's enough in life to have adequate supplies of both.

Yes, there is plenty of ignorance in this country, would you disagree?

Furthermore, I thought I would only rattle the chain a little more and get a reaction out of John with my last post to see if I could get him to the tipping point. It's all in fun, really - and I think John gets it and enjoys it as much as I do.

And who says we can't discuss civil rights leaders? Is that only meant to be a black topic?

Halon,

I've appreciated most of your posts. Actually I was quite surprised by your deviation from the norm on the one I quoted. But yes...sorry to say...talking of others as "ignorant baboons" because of what they enjoy is arrogant...even if it is...maybe especially if it is...a strongly held opinion. We're all subject to that weakness on occasion. (Call it yet another face of "ignorance".) The point is that those kinds of comments demean people and turn them off to important points of dialog. Don't you think?

That ignorance exists is not what I opposed, but the manner of accusation. What if those "baboons" think you're ignorant for alloting hours and dollars to a/v pleasures? The name-calling is futile. The discussion is not.

On the other hand, if you were merely noodging another here, one who wears his conceit like a neon crown, then that was a different matter.

 

[Johnd]

It seems arrogance is plentiful around here. John is "rightly self-righteous" and you're wailing about the "ignorant...baboons in this country".

I find it somewhat humorous and to watch a presumptuous bunch of white guys intellectualize over the emotional motivations and underpinnings of black civil rights leaders.

I'm all for dialog, as it is truly important for individual and societal growth. But can we lose the hubris, please?

Where do you come off?

You, like so many others, apparently do not understand this term. As Halon pointed out: it is not hubris. And it does not mean indignant. Being self-righteous simply means you believe you are correct...and I do so for good reason. It it is good to have affirmation in one's beliefs. Self-righteous also does not mean beyond reproach, or infallible. Need I go on? Whatever inferences you inject into that term are misappropriated...at least for me. So, would you please cease the ad hominems, and get back on point?