Beyerdynamic DT880 2003 Model Subjective Review

[furrycute]

Tube amps make everything sound warm and toasty and fuzzy.

If you play around with a decent EQ paired with a good solid state amp, I think you can achieve more or less the same effect.


But truth be told, sometimes when an amp is spot on accurate, it does make everything sound bright, especially if the headphone also has a very good linear response. That's why you need a good EQ in the chain.

 

[GreatDane]

Tube amplifiers sound different, but not accurate. Avaserfi was not including distortion makers.

Which tube headphone amplifiers have you used?

 

[GreatDane]

Tube amps make everything sound warm and toasty and fuzzy.

If you play around with a decent EQ paired with a good solid state amp, I think you can achieve more or less the same effect.

How does a "decent" EQ make the music sound "fuzzy". That's not its purpose

 

[avaserfi]

Wow even more misconceptions about a dated technology.

Tube amplifiers have the ability to be transparent it just happens to be rare in my experience. Any amplifier designed with a specific coloration or one that happens to have a given coloration is easily replicated using a high quality (this does not denote expense) equalizer paired with a linear pair of headphones such as the ones reviewed.

The fuzzy sound furrycute is talking about is likely a steep roll off on the high end often times perceived as fuzzy. This is very easy to replicate with an EQ using a shelving filter. A quality EQ applies the exact filters you set it to whether or not this means an increase in perceived sound quality depends on a variety of other factors. This means if you want a huge cut in the midrange a good EQ will do it no matter how bad it sounds - an EQ is a piece of equipment it does not think it should do exactly as told no matter the consequence.

 

[Seth=L]

The fuzzy sound furrycute is talking about is likely a steep roll off on the high end often times perceived as fuzzy.

Don't all tube amplifiers have this roll off?

 

[Seth=L]

Which tube headphone amplifiers have you used?

I wouldn't waste my time with such cost/value ratio equipment, especially if it has that "warm and fuzzy" sound. Since that is what associated with tube amplifiers, and it typically is the case, it's a waste of my time.

 

[avaserfi]

Don't all tube amplifiers have this roll off?

Not all, but most. I cannot remember the exact model, but I have seen measurements of some that were completely transparent and very expensive. This would be a good source to possibly find some if you are really interested.

 

[furrycute]

A tube amp with decent linear output will cost you BIG bucks. I think unless you have tons of cash to burn, we are better off buying solid state.

 

[GreatDane]

I wouldn't waste my time with such cost/value ratio equipment, especially if it has that "warm and fuzzy" sound. Since that is what associated with tube amplifiers, and it typically is the case, it's a waste of my time.

So I take that answer as - NONE

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Thanks Andrew.

Yet another well written review by you. Do you want to mod the Bose headphone that came with Carolyn's Pathfinder?

 

[avaserfi]

Thanks Andrew.

Yet another well written review by you. Do you want to mod the Bose headphone that came with Carolyn's Pathfinder?

Thats the easy mod - eBay then buy a good pair .

 

[GreatDane]

I have to say that this is the first time I've seen a headphone mod where the user adds foam(to smother?) rather than remove foam. I find my 880's to be very revealing with tubes and SS but not overly bright. With poor quality sources they can be brutal (sibilance). With my reference CD's they sound excellent.

 

[GreatDane]

Wow even more misconceptions about a dated technology.

Tube amplifiers have the ability to be transparent it just happens to be rare in my experience.

I've auditioned tube amps from both Singlepower and Ray Samuels and while both companies make some very expensive amps they are superior to 3 inexpensive "mixer" type SS amps that I've heard. "Rolled-off" and "fuzzy" they are not.

Singlepower

Ray Samuels Audio

 

[avaserfi]

I've auditioned tube amps from both Singlepower and Ray Samuels and while both companies make some very expensive amps they are superior to 3 inexpensive "mixer" type SS amps that I've heard. "Rolled-off" and "fuzzy" they are not.

Singlepower

Ray Samuels Audio

This is where the two of us differ you rely on your ears to decide whether or not something is accurate while I rely on credible measurements. I have spent countless hours reading credible research on various topics to gain an understanding of how a human hears and how this relates to measurements in all domains of audio, but primarily as it relates to speakers/headphones as the rest are far easier to understand.

From this - sounding good and being accurate are possibly two different things. As I mentioned in my review it has been shown that a linear response of treble is generally not perceived as tonally accurate and thus is not preferred. The common occurrence of treble roll off when using tube amps possible explains this. If you were using a set of headphones with a linear response it is very possible the coloration added by the tubes was more pleasant than a linear solid state amp such as the one I used. While some prefer this solution I would rather control the coloration through use of an EQ which can add coloration but to my exacting specifications. In other words I will take an active solution over a passive one any day.

 

[furrycute]

For the longest time, studios have used the Sony 7506 headphones for studio mixing. I am guessing this is a very accurate headphone and has a pretty good linear response. But boy, is this headphone bright. Most people don't like its "bright" sound. So avaserfi, this confirms your point that linear response and sounding good are two entirely different concepts.

Nowadays, with all things digital, it's really easy to add good EQ effects to your music. Rip all your music to lossless formats, play around with the EQ in your music player on your computer, pass the digital signal from your computer to a good external DAC and then from the DAC's analog stage to a good headphone amp (or the headphone out on your receiver/preamp), and then to your headphone.

I agree with you avaserfi, it's far better to have control of where the roll off and bumps occur with your own EQ. This is why it's better to have upstream and downstream components with linear response, then you can play around with all those bumps and dips to all your heart's content.



Oh yeah, Ray Samuels amps. I've heard a couple of his amps. To my ears, they were rolled off in the highs, but have pretty sweet midrange. Haven't really heard any tube headphone amps.

 

[GreatDane]

Exactly how do you go about testing for a headphone's acoustic response to determine these credible measurements ? Some type of specialized audio analyzer/microphone which replicates the average human ear??

I also don't believe that all SS amps sound the same because none are "perfect".

 

[avaserfi]

For the longest time, studios have used the Sony 7506 headphones for studio mixing. I am guessing this is a very accurate headphone and has a pretty good linear response. But boy, is this headphone bright. Most people don't like its "bright" sound. So avaserfi, this confirms your point that linear response and sounding good are two entirely different concepts.

The other pair of headphones I own is actually an MDR-7506 . It is a very linear headphone that is great for studio monitoring, but actually seems to have a roll off on the high end that the DT880 does not (both pre and post mod). I find the 7506 to be more pleasant for listening without an EQ due to this less accentuated high end, but they do not have the complete lack of resonance that the DT880 posses which lends them self to a less clear presentation. This is the main reason why I will be using an EQ with the DT880 - it will be a superb monitor system matched by few systems out there (both in the headphone realm and the typical 2-channel realm).

I will be working on a review of them this weekend .

Exactly how do you go about testing for a headphone's acoustic response to determine these credible measurements ? Some type of specialized audio analyzer/microphone which replicates the average human ear??

A properly calibrated microphone [defined in this case as perfectly linear in the ranges being measured] is used in conjunction with sufficient absorption to simulate anechoic response for the headphones. Taking the measurements is the simple part interpreting them appropriately is the more complicated part. This is due to the fact that the human ear does not necessarily work in a linear fashion so it is important to understand what is perceived as pleasant. Also, frequency response data is not the only data that can be looked at to gain a full understanding of how a speaker/headphone will be perceived there is more data required to gain this understanding than I can accurately summarize. If you are interested I suggest you go over to AES.org and start out reading Floyd Toole's articles.

I also don't believe that all SS amps sound the same because none are "perfect".

All that is required for an amplifier to be "perfect" is complete transparency coupled with the ability to drive the headphones [in this case] being used. As previously stated if any coloration is wanted an EQ can do that.

 

[furrycute]

I just checked Sony's webpage. They don't seem to making those MDR-7506's anymore. It's a shame, I would have liked to grab a pair before they are gone.

 

[avaserfi]

I just checked Sony's webpage. They don't seem to making those MDR-7506's anymore. It's a shame, I would have liked to grab a pair before they are gone.

Easy fix - some sellers on Amazon (new of course) have them for around $90 thats where I picked mine up.

The links: 1 2

 

[Seth=L]

So I take that answer as - NONE

I have heard 3 stereo rigs powered by tube amplifiers, they where nothing special in my opinion. They are very overpriced for their performance, low output wattage and typically high distortion (high THD factors). So back to my original statement, waste of my time.

Any well designed solid state amplifier that is transparent will sound the same when operating within it's design parameters. I suppose the same could be said of a tube amplifier, assuming it is transparent (apparently there isn't many of those according to those others who have spoken about it here).