Do you leave your A/V receiver on ?

[treejohnny]

I was told that if I could afford (electric bill) to leave the receiver on that it would be better for it and it would last longer, said start up on electronic equipment was harder on it that leaving it on all the time ?

 

[MDS]

There is no truth to the myth that electronics will last longer if you leave them on at all times.

 

[adam71]

The only components I've ever left on all the time are digital components such as Audio Alchemy or other D/A conversion products. Other than that I would think because a receiver has amplifiers it would need some down time. But don't hold me to that as I don't know that to be a fact.

 

[highfihoney]

Leaving gear on is totally pointless & will do nothing except burn out any lights in the gear prematurely.

Unless your running tube gear warm up is not needed.

 

[mike c]

plus the fact most receivers run hot ... i think you'd actually be shortening it's life if you left it on.

 

[treejohnny]

Well I guess that explains it...it was a salesman telling me that it was better to leave on....lol

 

[jagxtype]

Well I guess that explains it...it was a salesman telling me that it was better to leave on....lol

I bet he was real nice too... He was hoping to get some return business when the one you bought toasted.

 

[emorphien]

There is no truth to the myth that electronics will last longer if you leave them on at all times.

Particularly solid state components.

I don't leave my A/V receiver or 2 channel integrated amp on all the time, although I have forgotten to turn one or the other off for long periods of time before. The amp tends to warm my bedroom up a fair bit.

 

[OttoMatic]

There is no truth to the myth that electronics will last longer if you leave them on at all times.

This is a very bold statement, you know. Can you back this up with any references?

When I was an EE student, I do recall discussion on power cycling causing stress to some electronic components. I don't have the memory to discuss it in any detail, though; it's probably at a molecular level. I know that lots of power cycling can be a bad thing for hard drives (not normally part of a receiver, but may come into play in some HT systems).

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle...

FWIW, I generally turn my stuff off, except for my BFD and a little preamp that I use for my sub.

 

[fmw]

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle...

Where would the middle be? You either turn it off when not in use or you don't. I can't see a middle ground.

 

[OttoMatic]

Where would the middle be? You either turn it off when not in use or you don't. I can't see a middle ground.

Sorry, I meant the real answer as to what happens to electonics components at power-on vs. what happens to them over time when left on all the time. The opinions haven't been very nuanced, as I would generally expect.

In the end, I don't think it matters much. In the past, I've left things on all the time, but more recently, I turn more things off. I don't recall any catastrophic failures either way. However, over the past few years of reading forums, I've found that many opinions are just that, so I asked for some references to the big and bold statements offered here.

 

[kenhoeve]

dude that's like 300W static. forget about the equipment life, you'd be burning more electricity in one day than your average east african village... to power your sedentary receiver. silliness.

 

[AdrianMills]

This is a very bold statement, you know. Can you back this up with any references?

When I was an EE student, I do recall discussion on power cycling causing stress to some electronic components. I don't have the memory to discuss it in any detail, though; it's probably at a molecular level. I know that lots of power cycling can be a bad thing for hard drives (not normally part of a receiver, but may come into play in some HT systems).

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle...

FWIW, I generally turn my stuff off, except for my BFD and a little preamp that I use for my sub.

Dude, hard drives are mechanical systems - not really a fair comparison with receivers. But you may be amused by a story a colleague once told me about very old hard drives (the type that didn't auto park the heads) that sometimes needed a hammer to get going again if power loss occurred after a very long uptime; the heads were so hot that they welded themselves to the disk platters and a bang on the case with a hammer would knock them free.

I also heard recently that if every American shut off 1 light bulb they could shutdown 1 power station. Hm, I wonder how many they could get by with if all the receivers and other AV kit that wasn't in use was turned off.

 

[OttoMatic]

Yes, drives are mechanical systems, I didn't mean to imply that their failures are always caused by electrical malfunctions. And you're right -- heads can stick to the media for a variety of reasons. You can usually unstick them by banging on the thing w/ the palm of your hard. Of course, you probably don't want that drive in your system anymore, even if it does appear to be working.

 

[OttoMatic]

dude that's like 300W static. forget about the equipment life, you'd be burning more electricity in one day than your average east african village... to power your sedentary receiver. silliness.

Not sure if you're referring to me or not, but, yes, you are correct that it's a waste of energy. Aside from the concern of whether it's better for the electronics to stay on or be power cycled, it's better to turn them off from an energy conservation point of view.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This is a very bold statement, you know. Can you back this up with any references?

When I was an EE student, I do recall discussion on power cycling causing stress to some electronic components. I don't have the memory to discuss it in any detail, though; it's probably at a molecular level. I know that lots of power cycling can be a bad thing for hard drives (not normally part of a receiver, but may come into play in some HT systems).

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle...

FWIW, I generally turn my stuff off, except for my BFD and a little preamp that I use for my sub.

There has been some discussion of this in the past but it is similar to shutting off lights. If a bulb last 10,000 hrs, that is 416 day. If you turn it of for 12 hrs and on 12 hrs, that would be 832 days. You will certainly not lose 50% of its life by that cycle.
I have read government research on that aspect. It is best to turn light off every time and be way ahead before replacement.

 

[Halon451]

This has circulated among the various industries, not merely home electronics. There is a prevalent myth that leaving the power on, as in the case with electronic components reduces the negative thermal effects most notably in components such as resistors and diodes. Every electronic component generates some amount of heat when it has power running through it - the solid state transistors found in modern amps aren't going to benefit from leaving the power on, as nothing is likely to change the doping of the semiconductor material that comprises them, hence their ability to perform as designed.

Maybe in older circuits, this held some truth, which is what led to the belief that persists today. Every component has an expected lifespan, and the more you use it, the closer you get to any number of components in your gear singing their swan song.

Either the guy at the store was selling you a load of B.S. intentionally, or he is uneducated on the matter.

 

[MDS]

This has circulated among the various industries, not merely home electronics. There is a prevalent myth that leaving the power on, as in the case with electronic components reduces the negative thermal effects most notably in components such as resistors and diodes. Every electronic component generates some amount of heat when it has power running through it - the solid state transistors found in modern amps aren't going to benefit from leaving the power on, as nothing is likely to change the doping of the semiconductor material that comprises them, hence their ability to perform as designed.

Maybe in older circuits, this held some truth, which is what led to the belief that persists today. Every component has an expected lifespan, and the more you use it, the closer you get to any number of components in your gear singing their swan song.

Either the guy at the store was selling you a load of B.S. intentionally, or he is uneducated on the matter.

That is a nice explanation and is better than my simple knee jerk reaction that said there is no truth to the fact that electronics last longer if you keep them on at all times. I'm sure certain people will say that is an opinion and request citations to back it up but they are of course unnecessary as anybody can do their own research on the matter and conclude that what you say is true.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes, drives are mechanical systems, I didn't mean to imply that their failures are always caused by electrical malfunctions. And you're right -- heads can stick to the media for a variety of reasons. You can usually unstick them by banging on the thing w/ the palm of your hard. Of course, you probably don't want that drive in your system anymore, even if it does appear to be working.

Called "stiction." We used to have that problem after a planned, or unplanned, power outage on our server floor. I have recovered literally hundreds of server hard drives by lightly tapping on them, or better yet by "snapping" them. In general if you could get them to spin back up they wouldn't cause any more problems.......that is until you shut them down again.

 

[OttoMatic]

That is a nice explanation and is better than my simple knee jerk reaction that said there is no truth to the fact that electronics last longer if you keep them on at all times.

Sure, it's a nice explanation. It seems to make sense, right? And therefore it is?

What if I take the light bulb story above and add on that "most light bulbs pop when you turn them on, right? Therefore, it must be the stress of the on/off cycle that contributes to their early failure..." Seems to make sense of the surface, right?

I'm sure certain people will say that is an opinion and request citations to back it up but they are of course unnecessary as anybody can do their own research on the matter and conclude that what you say is true.

Here's the thing. I looked around the web for 30+ minutes for things like ("turn on" or "leave off") and (power cycle hard on electronics) and (electronics life span power cycle). To say the least, it's not easy to find a definitive answer. There are a lot of people that believe in or perpetuate the "myth" that power cycling electronics causes a stress on the system. Why is this?

Here's one older (1993) article that discusses turning on/off Apple computers. The discussion leads to suggesting to turn it off if you're not going to use it for 8 hours. Basically, the answer from this document is "it depends," based on how often the user will be turning it on/off.

Here's an article from howitworks.com that describes the phenomenon of thermal stress (including the lightbulb popping at turn on; I wrote my above comment before finding this site).

Anyway, I have to move on now, as I've spent enough time "doing my own research." I still stand by my original assessment that the real answer is "somewhere in the middle." I guess I just took exception to someone that was trying to do their own research (coming to Audioholics to confirm or deny what he'd heard at Best Buy) and being met with a huge blanket statement with zero nuance. Indeed, why should he believe some random Internet poster on a web site over the guy at BB? At least the guy at BB will look you in the eye and say it. No offense to MDS or anyone else, please -- it's just my opinion that if you want to help someone, do it properly.

In the end, I still don't think it will make much difference if you leave it on or leave it off (other than to your electric bill).