Blu-Ray players and new audio codecs

[Geno]

I've been looking to finally jump on the Blu-Ray bandwagon, now that there seems to be a winner in the war. I'm also excited about the new audio formats being released (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD Master Audio, etc.) that will finally give us uncompressed multi-channel audio in 7.1. Problem is, there doesn't seem to be a single player out there that will decode those formats within the player and output them as LPCM to a non-HDMI 1.3 receiver. Since I have a pretty new Denon AVR 4306, I'm not interested in buying a new receiver just for those decoders.
As I understand it, NONE of the BD players on the market at this time (even the pricey Denons) do internal decoding of these codecs; they just bitstream them out via HDMI and must be decoded in a receiver or pre/pro with the proper decoders.
Also, as I understand it, a receiver with HDMI 1.1 will take this bitstream and just convert it to the "core" DTS or DD formats. I don't really have a problem with DTS and DD, but if I'm going to pop for the new stuff, I certainly want to experience the new audio formats at the same time.
If I'm wrong about this, someone with the facts please set me straight.

 

[Duffinator]

I'm with you no this. It would be nice to hear the new formats from a player the will decode them. Since BD (and HD) players will output 1080i via component I'd like to find a player that will decode the new audio formats so I can hold off buying a newer TV just a bit longer.

 

[rgriffin25]

I believe that most players on the market that decode everything except DTS master. The panasonic model is the only one that comes to mind that actually decodes DTS Master.
I have used The Sony BDP-S1 with my Yamaha RXV-2600 and I get decoded uncompressed Multi-channel PCM. It also works this way with the PS3 and the Sony BDP-S300. Some of the newer players have a choice of internally decoding the signal or passing it via bitstream over HDMI for the receiver to decode.

So it may not be as hard of a task to find your player as you thought!

 

[Emusica]

I think I know the answer, but can I only get HD audio through HDMI? I have a receiver (Sony STR DA 7ES) that can decode DTS 96/24 through the optical cable and I think the analog 5.1 inputs (not sure about that one) Looks like I will be getting a BR player (glad I returned that 360 HD player) so I want to get all I can from the audio.

Also, when will BR be finalized? I'm not into this Profile 1.1, 2.0, etc. crap. If I'm going to buy something, I want it to be a finished product.

 

[Geno]

I believe that most players on the market that decode everything except DTS master. The panasonic model is the only one that comes to mind that actually decodes DTS Master.
I have used The Sony BDP-S1 with my Yamaha RXV-2600 and I get decoded uncompressed Multi-channel PCM. It also works this way with the PS3 and the Sony BDP-S300. Some of the newer players have a choice of internally decoding the signal or passing it via bitstream over HDMI for the receiver to decode.

So it may not be as hard of a task to find your player as you thought!

I've read about this same situation at AVS forum, and I'm pretty sure the PCM you get from any of the players is the "core" DTS and DD, Not the full uncompressed DolbyTrueHD/DTS MA. That has to be decoded by a receiver with the proper decoder, or internally in the player. I've been told numerous times that none of the current players have the actual decoders. If that's in error, I'll be happy.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think I know the answer, but can I only get HD audio through HDMI? I have a receiver (Sony STR DA 7ES) that can decode DTS 96/24 through the optical cable and I think the analog 5.1 inputs (not sure about that one) Looks like I will be getting a BR player (glad I returned that 360 HD player) so I want to get all I can from the audio.

You can get HD audio only through HDMI or using 5.1/7.1 analog inputs from a player that has 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. This is not a 'receiver' limitation, but is a limitation of Toslink & S/PDIF digital audio.

Also, when will BR be finalized? I'm not into this Profile 1.1, 2.0, etc. crap. If I'm going to buy something, I want it to be a finished product.

BD is finalized. There are three versions, all of which play movies perfectly.

v1.0 - Original format, plays movies and extras with BDJ interactivity.
v1.1 - Plus format - adds PiP functionality for more interactive extras
v2.0 - Adds ethernet for even more interactive extras

The PS3 is expected to conform to v2.0 requirements and already meets v1.1 requirements. The new Denons conform to v1.1 requirements. Yet, all players ever made conform to 1.0 requirements and will play all the movies on the market right now.

I think most people who own a PS3 swear by them though - I sure as heck do.

 

[D.R. Payne]

The Panasonic BD30k decodes DTS-HDMA and DolbyDigital TrueHD. I'll have to dig up a review, but I believe it was generally very positive. None of the standalone players can match the fast load times of the PS3 yet though ;(

 

[Emusica]

The Panasonic BD30k decodes DTS-HDMA and DolbyDigital TrueHD. I'll have to dig up a review, but I believe it was generally very positive. None of the standalone players can match the fast load times of the PS3 yet though ;(

I'll look that model up.... I'll get a PS3 eventually but it wont be for movies. I rather have a stand alone.

 

[D.R. Payne]

Here's a user review:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=25582

On Amazon.com, reviews seem overwhelmingly positive:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-BD30K-1080p-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B000Y634SU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1199596018&sr=8-1

I wish I could find a precise number for the load time, the 7ish second PS3 load time has me very spoiled.

 

[Duffinator]

The Panasonic BD30k decodes DTS-HDMA and DolbyDigital TrueHD. I'll have to dig up a review, but I believe it was generally very positive. None of the standalone players can match the fast load times of the PS3 yet though ;(

Thanks for the post to the user review. Southpaw is using HDMI 1.3 and there is no mention of analog outputs of both formats. What Geno and I are both referring to is the ability to use the new formats with our existing non-HDMI equipped Denon AVR's using the analog 5.1 inputs. So what BD players have analog 5.1 outputs and decode both of the new formats? Do all of the Sony BD players play SACD?

Read the first three paragraphs of this review.

 

[D.R. Payne]

My bad Duffinator. I seem to recall reading that at least on BD player got the DTS-HD MA ability with a post-release firmware update but the only one I can find reference to now is the Combo player.

 

[Emusica]

Thanks for the post to the user review. Southpaw is using HDMI 1.3 and there is no mention of analog outputs of both formats. What Geno and I are both referring to is the ability to use the new formats with our existing non-HDMI equipped Denon AVR's using the analog 5.1 inputs. So what BD players have analog 5.1 outputs and decode both of the new formats? Do all of the Sony BD players play SACD?

Read the first three paragraphs of this review.

I was looking into that also. My receiver has analog 5.1 inputs so I was trying to find players that have the analog outs. The Panasonic BD30K has these outputs. Not sure which other players have them yet.

 

[Duffinator]

I was looking into that also. My receiver has analog 5.1 inputs so I was trying to find players that have the analog outs. The Panasonic BD30K has these outputs. Not sure which other players have them yet.

It has them but it appears only for DD and DTS. It doens't decode the new formats.

DRP, no worries, just trying to see if any of these players have what I'm looking for. My initial thought was to be the least expensive BD player and have both HD and BD. But now that it appears BD has won the war I'm now thinking of spending more money and if I do so would like to be able to hear the new lossless formats.

 

[D.R. Payne]

Everything I'm seeing has these players only passing bitstream to a receiver

I feel your pain. I have an Aragon Stage One that I love, but it looks like I'll be getting something else (Integra 9.8 most likely) to get the high bitrate audio. The CE industry as a whole has not made the high def/digital transition easy.

 

[D.R. Payne]

I checked on blu-ray.com, and NO players are doing DTS-HD MA decoding over the analog out at this time. The Denon players are expected to be the first, but they are a bit more expensive. This may still be a better option than a new pre/pro?

{edit}
Yeah, check this link http://www.usa.denon.com/DVD-3800BDCILit_924.pdf
$1999 is somewhat expensive. I'm sure it's a very nice unit, but you can get a BD player AND an Integra 9.8 for about that price.