Drunk Driver kills 4 children+Mom on New Year's

[aberkowitz]

Hmmm ... Are you deliberately putting bait out? Well I guess that I'll bite anyway.

I strongly prefer that the people that directly commit the act be held accountable. Unless companies actively promote irresponsible behaviour they shouldn't be held directly or indirectly responsible. I doubt there are any major companies out there that are glorifying drunk driving .....

And all of them now spend millions of dollars a year on ads promoting the responsible usage of alcohol as well as donations to groups like MADD. Of course they could always do more, but it should always come down to personal responsibility, and that's something no company can control.

Alamar, as for your penalties, I'm in general agreement except for the year of alcohol abuse counseling. If you're BAC is at .1 (25% above the legal limit), it doesn't necessarily mean you're abusing alcohol, but if you drive at this level you are abusing your driving privileges. A 160 lb person will reach a BAC of .1 just by having 4 drinks- and in this case drinks are measured very conservatively (1.25 oz of liquor, 5 oz of wine). I think it would be more impactful to mandate 1 year of community service helping families who were the victims or alcohol related accidents- something like that will actually have an impact as opposed to classes that a person may truly not need.

 

[aberkowitz]

That depends on how heavy of a drinker he is. Some severe alcoholics are so detached from reality that they are not able to recognize the consequences of their actions.

Thing is, we don't even know if this person was an alcoholic. I'm sure I've had a BAC of that high in my life (maybe even on NYE myself) at least several times... but the difference is I never got behind the wheel of a car.

 

[Alamar]

And all of them now spend millions of dollars a year on ads promoting the responsible usage of alcohol as well as donations to groups like MADD. Of course they could always do more, but it should always come down to personal responsibility, and that's something no company can control.

Alamar, as for your penalties, I'm in general agreement except for the year of alcohol abuse counseling. If you're BAC is at .1 (25% above the legal limit), it doesn't necessarily mean you're abusing alcohol, but if you drive at this level you are abusing your driving privileges. A 160 lb person will reach a BAC of .1 just by having 4 drinks- and in this case drinks are measured very conservatively (1.25 oz of liquor, 5 oz of wine). I think it would be more impactful to mandate 1 year of community service helping families who were the victims or alcohol related accidents- something like that will actually have an impact as opposed to classes that a person may truly not need.

How about this counter proposal then .... 1 year of "don't be stupid" counciling?? While they are doing that they can also do 1 year of community service

 

[Halon451]

That depends on how heavy of a drinker he is. Some severe alcoholics are so detached from reality that they are not able to recognize the consequences of their actions.

Yes, fortunately we're able to speak from the perspective of clarity and sobriety. I've met the types you speak of. My guess is that this was just a dude who partied way too much on New Year's Eve and made the fatal decision to get behind the wheel.

May he never live down his demons...

 

[aberkowitz]

How about this counter proposal then .... 1 year of "don't be stupid" counciling?? While they are doing that they can also do 1 year of community service

Totally supportive of that!!! Maybe we can take this back to the "Unchallenged Youth" thread and see if we can add anti-stupidity training to elementary education. Each year of K-12 kids should have to take a class called "Stupid Decisions and the People That Make" aka "Sh$t not to do when you grow up!!"

 

[Halon451]

Totally supportive of that!!! Maybe we can take this back to the "Unchallenged Youth" thread and see if we can add anti-stupidity training to elementary education. Each year of K-12 kids should have to take a class called "Stupid Decisions and the People That Make" aka "Sh$t not to do when you grow up!!"

I think that's the best freaking thing I've heard in a while.

 

[mazersteven]

Did you know?

You have kids in school. Kids have to be driven to school at 7am.

You go out the night before, and you consume 12 drinks. Or should I say 12 oz of alcohol (Could only be a few drinks with multiple alcohols in them), or 12 beers, or 12-5 oz glasses of wine. You start drinking at 10pm, and stop at 2am when the bars close. You take a cab home so you don't get a DUI. You wake up at 6:30 feel fine, with no hangover. You get the kid ready for school, and drive them.

Are you being responsible? Can you get a DUI?

 

[Halon451]

Did you know?

You have kids in school. Kids have to be driven to school at 7am.

You go out the night before, and you consume 12 drinks. You start drinking at 10pm, and stop at 2am when the bars close. You take a cab him so you don't get a DUI. You wake up at 6:30 fell fine, with no hangover. You get the kid ready for school, and drive them.

Are you being responsible? Can you get a DUI?

Interesting question, with maybe a not-so-simple answer. This is the kind of thing that hits a little closer to home, even if many will not admit it, I would presume.

To answer your last question, if you blow over the legal limit, despite the circumstances, a DUI is still a DUI per the letter of the law. Period. The problem is how do you know if you feel fine? I'm sure most people don't give themselves a breathalizer test once they wake up the next morning, so what would the other indications be that you shouldn't get behind the wheel?

I think by the fact that one would take a cab home right after the night out is showing a great deal of responsibility, but the next morning kind of falls into a gray area that would depend entirely on the circustances upon awakening. With 12 drinks in you, and only 4 and a half hours of sleep, I think one would ruin the streak of responsibility they showed the night before by driving. That is not enough time to work that much alcohol out of your system.

Furthermore, if one has kids at home with school the next day, what the hell are they doing out drinking until 2 AM??

 

[aberkowitz]

Did you know?

You have kids in school. Kids have to be driven to school at 7am.

You go out the night before, and you consume 12 drinks. Or should I say 12 oz of alcohol (Could only be a few drinks with multiple alcohols in them), or 12 beers, or 12-5 oz glasses of wine. You start drinking at 10pm, and stop at 2am when the bars close. You take a cab home so you don't get a DUI. You wake up at 6:30 feel fine, with no hangover. You get the kid ready for school, and drive them.

Are you being responsible? Can you get a DUI?

Man, if you can have 12 drinks in 4 hours and then get 4 hours of sleep and wake up with no hangover, more power to you!!!

But yes, assuming that it takes 45-60 minutes for each drink to clear your system, it is highly likely that your BAC is over .08%. If that's the case, then you should get a DUI.

To reverse the question- if you know that you have to take your kid to school at 7:00 am, why the heck are you out binge drinking until 2 am? All goes back to personal responsibility.

Halon- these are the types of word problems that we would use in the stupidity class.....

 

[mazersteven]

Furthermore, if one has kids at home with school the next day, what the hell are they doing out drinking until 2 AM??

That is not the question, and has nothing to do with my question.

And yes people do go out, and hire babysitters. But this is not what my question is.

 

[Halon451]

That is not the question, and has nothing to do with my question.

And yes people do go out, and hire babysitters. But this is not what my question is.

Understood man. But it was a question that begged to be asked.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Man, if you can have 12 drinks in 4 hours and then get 4 hours of sleep and wake up with no hangover, more power to you!!!

Good point. Is that even possible?
One thing is certain: nobody should drive with a hangover.

 

[aberkowitz]

Good point. Is that even possible?
One thing is certain: nobody should drive with a hangover.

Drive... I can barely walk with a hangover anymore!!!

I went to work 2 weeks ago with a hangover that lasted until 4 pm... we had a holiday party the night before that deteriorated into bottle service at a bar until 2 am... nobody in my entire group did a thing that day! It was just accepted that we would all be surfing the web and reading email . I was actually still drunk until Noon...

 

[Alex2507]

We tried to ban alcohol once in this country and it turned into a complete disaster.

I think you're talking about the LAST time alcohol was banned in this country. I remember seeing a show on the History Channel that said America for the most part was alcohol free since it became a country up until that point.

Hmmm ... Are you deliberately putting bait out?
.

Nope. Bait is for fishing.

I just don't think companies care. Look at the tobacco people and Ford with the Explorer. The drink responsibly ads reduce their liability IMO. They spend a lot more money trying to get people to drink than not. They make more money if they get sued less. I'm all for personal responsibility and acountability. It's just that I've seen some effective ads.

It was just a thought anyway. I'm not saying free the drunk and hang Seagrams.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Drive... I can barely walk with a hangover anymore!!!

I went to work 2 weeks ago with a hangover that lasted until 4 pm... we had a holiday party the night before that deteriorated into bottle service at a bar until 2 am... nobody in my entire group did a thing that day! It was just accepted that we would all be surfing the web and reading email . I was actually still drunk until Noon...

Now you understand why I permanently gave up drinking a while back.

 

[mazersteven]

Did you know?

You have kids in school. Kids have to be driven to school at 7am.

You go out the night before, and you consume 12 drinks. Or should I say 12 oz of alcohol (Could only be a few drinks with multiple alcohols in them), or 12 beers, or 12-5 oz glasses of wine. You start drinking at 10pm, and stop at 2am when the bars close. You take a cab home so you don't get a DUI. You wake up at 6:30 feel fine, with no hangover. You get the kid ready for school, and drive them.

Are you being responsible? Can you get a DUI?

Anyway the correct answer is "Yes" you can get a DUI.

It takes 1 hour for an oz. of alcohol to get out of your system. So if you drank 12 ozs. over 4 hours that would mean that you have 8 oz. in your system when you stopped drinking. If you drive within 5 hours of that you still have 3 ozs. in your system.

Would you drive your kids to school with 3 drinks in you? Many people don't realize this. They think that since they drank the night before that the next morning they are fine.

And just think

2 Long Island Iced Teas are more then 12 ozs. of alcohol. Very easy to drink 2 in 4 hours. Just think how many you might drink in 4 hours?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

2 Long Island Iced Teas are more then 12 ozs. of alcohol. Very easy to drink 2 in 4 hours. Just think how many you might drink in 4 hours?

Years ago, I had a coworker who would "match" me in the following sense: For every beer I drank, he drank a Long Island Iced Tea. I could put away some beer in those days, too!
I hope he quit, because if not he is probably dead.

 

[stratman]

A gentleman who is like a father to me and happens to be the VP of Southern Wine and Spirits (the world's largest liquor distributor) once told me: "Thank God it's just alcohol, can you imagine alcohol and drugs being legal? The problem with alcohol abuse is bad enough without compounding it further with more legal drugs." That made me stop and think. I don't want to take this thread away from the OP, but it does beg the question. Being a parent it breaks my heart to hear of families being destroyed by senseless actions. Something so banal as alcohol. Depressing.