French Speakers

[Reorx]

One of my co-workers pointed these out to me, as he expressed an interest in them. They look kinda cool.
But one has to wonder about resonance, reflection, lack of detailed spec's to name a few things.
I do know, that at $5400/pair, I will pass.

Link
Manufacture link

Reorx

 

[Warpdrv]

They are pretty though.... I like the glass... thats kinda sexy...

But for sure you are right... where are the specs...

 

[no. 5]

I could very well be wrong, but they look like they have a highly resonant cabinet.

 

[Tomorrow]

No grill?!

 

[pzaur]

It looks like they surrendered to marketing to sell those.
(after all, they are French...)

-pat

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I think I saw a positive review of those in a magazine once. Unfortunately, I can't remember which magazine or when. Still, I am sure that one can do better soundwise for less. (They do look nice, though.)

 

[pzaur]

Imagine the fingerprints those things would incur if they came by small hands!
-pat

 

[Geno]

Yeah, but they probably sound snotty. Plus, they'll stab you in the back the first chance they get!

 

[Gasman]

I could very well be wrong, but they look like they have a highly resonant cabinet.

You could be very correct in saying that.
Although, I have seen another company that has made glass speakers, with a patent pending special glass that is not typical for resonant frequencies.

I'll have to find the link.
Either way, this is not the first glass speakers made. But they are also nice looking, compared to the other set I saw.

 

[avaserfi]

I could very well be wrong, but they look like they have a highly resonant cabinet.

Not only that, but there is no acoustic dampening inside the cab. Can we say standing waves?

You could be very correct in saying that.
Although, I have seen another company that has made glass speakers, with a patent pending special glass that is not typical for resonant frequencies.

I'll have to find the link.
Either way, this is not the first glass speakers made. But they are also nice looking, compared to the other set I saw.

This company makes the same claim on their site - marketing is marketing. Remember, just because they patent it doesn't make it work.

I highly doubt that any type of special glass would be able to stop resonance. Hell, even concrete specially mixed with solid asphalt (roofing tiles) and rebar and allowed to set wouldn't be sufficient in eliminating resonance, further internal bracing would still be needed. You still sure that glass is enough?

Speakers like these are marketed toward audiophools overpriced and likely low quality, but they are seen as pretty by some.

In the end there are some proven areas of speaker design through perceptual research and actual engineering which this speaker seems to ignore. Perhaps they developed new rules of physics .

 

[Joe Schmoe]

You could be very correct in saying that.
Although, I have seen another company that has made glass speakers, with a patent pending special glass that is not typical for resonant frequencies.

I'll have to find the link.
Either way, this is not the first glass speakers made. But they are also nice looking, compared to the other set I saw.

I have heard a lot of speakers that reviewers have panned for having significant cabinet resonance, but that sound fine to me. Is this because I never play music very loud?

 

[fmw]

The problem is that there isn't anything new under the sun. Speaker design and manufacture hasn't changed meaningfully in 50 years. The well-designed speakers of today sound about like the well-designed speakers of 50 years ago and are designed around the same formulae.

It is a very, very, very crowded field and companies do what they can to try to differentiate their product from those of others. That causes designers to be more concerned about marketability than performance. I'm not suggesting they perform poorly. I have no idea. But my impression is that they are aiming at differentiation here more than anything else.

 

[fmw]

I have heard a lot of speakers that reviewers have panned for having significant cabinet resonance, but that sound fine to me. Is this because I never play music very loud?

Most likely it is that you haven't compared them to similar speakers with better enclosures in an appropriate listening test.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Most likely it is that you haven't compared them to similar speakers with better enclosures in an appropriate listening test.

It is true that whenever I A/B two pairs of speakers, there always other differences than the cabinets (in fact, I have never even seen two pairs of speakers with identical drivers/crossovers but different cabinets.) Nonetheless, if resonance is as big an issue as some here claim, I would expect speakers with resonant cabinets to sound noticeably bad, and they don't. My thought was that maybe resonance only becomes audible above some critical volume level that I have never reached.

 

[no. 5]

Nonetheless, if resonance is as big an issue as some here claim, I would expect speakers with resonant cabinets to sound noticeably bad, and they don't. My thought was that maybe resonance only becomes audible above some critical volume level that I have never reached.

Though I cannot say at what level a speaker must play to have audible resonance, think of how a resonance is audible; it doesn't sound like a rigging wine glass, it's a coloration that creates a change in timbre by the cabinet acting as a uncontrolled speaker diaphragm.

 

[avaserfi]

Nonetheless, if resonance is as big an issue as some here claim, I would expect speakers with resonant cabinets to sound noticeably bad, and they don't. My thought was that maybe resonance only becomes audible above some critical volume level that I have never reached.

I strongly suggest you read:

The Modification of Timbre by Resonances: Perception and Measurements. J. Audio Eng. Soc. 36, 122-142, 1988 by Toole, Floyd E. and Olive, Sean E.

In this article the thresholds for human perception of resonance is researched. In the end it is found humans are extremely sensitive to this phenomenon that is very common in most loudspeakers. Not only that, but it is found that loudspeaker/room interaction actually decreases this threshold making resonance even more noticeable.

The reason you have likely never noticed this resonance is simply because you do not know what to look for when listening as you do not have an inert control to compare with.

Though I cannot say at what level a speaker must play to have audible resonance, think of how a resonance is audible; it doesn't sound like a rigging wine glass, it's a coloration that creates a change in timbre by the cabinet acting as a uncontrolled speaker diaphragm.

Resonance coloration is most often found in the midrange bands as that is where it is hardest to remove, but it is able to color any frequencies if given the chance.

Also, it is important to note that some speaker designers actually design there speakers to have resonance bands in the attempt to achieve a specific sound. While this might make sense this can cause poor interactions with rooms and source materials for example: if the source is recorded and there happens to be the same resonance bands the resonance will be over emphasized when playing that source.

So as you can see Joe resonance isn't necessarily thought of to sound bad right away, but when compared to a non-resonant speaker your thoughts may change. Another article by Toole delves into this topic:

Loudspeaker Measurements and their Relationship to Listener Preferences: Part 2," J. Aud. Eng. Soc. Vol.34, p.327

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Though I cannot say at what level a speaker must play to have audible resonance, think of how a resonance is audible; it doesn't sound like a rigging wine glass, it's a coloration that creates a change in timbre by the cabinet acting as a uncontrolled speaker diaphragm.

I see. So it is simply part of the overall "sound" of a particular make/model of speaker, and not possible to hear as something distinct from all the other variables, correct?

 

[avaserfi]

I see. So it is simply part of the overall "sound" of a particular make/model of speaker, and not possible to hear as something distinct from all the other variables, correct?

Exactly, to make matters worse cabinet resonance will often not show up on a frequency response graph due to methods commonly used when taking them. I am pretty sure this is why so I will tell you what I remember (the only thing that I think could be incorrect is the two types of measurements might be juxtaposed):

Typical measurements are taken using a gated response methods which masks the coloration caused by resonance in an attempt to simulate anechoic conditions. To get see the resonance on a graph an impulse response measurement need be taken in an anechoic chamber.

Another option (far easier) to approximating resonance is use of an accelerometer on various points on the cabinet. Once measurements are taken resonance can be calculated by comparing total surface are to measurements. While this method is crude it is far easier and fairly accurate if done correctly.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would not even buy those glass speakers for $800/pair.

 

[no. 5]

Resonance coloration is most often found in the midrange bands as that is where it is hardest to remove, but it is able to color any frequencies if given the chance.

I notice that Stereophile only measures cabinet resonance up to 2kHz, is typical cabinet construction sufficient to deal with resonances above the point of upper midrange to lower treble, or is there simply insufficient energy at higher frequencies to excite any cabinet resonances? If this topic is dealt with in the AES papers you mentioned, I apologies for seeming lazy, I just don't want to spend $40 right now.