Global Warming'ists Basking in Bali

aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I thought you were merely another right-wing jerk (sorry, redundant) until I read this post. Now I know that you are actually stark, raving nuts (or at least if you actually believe any of that garbage you wrote, you are.:eek:)
Get help before its too late. Seriously!
Wow- I expected responses like this on the CNN political ticker- WORST message boards ever- never read so many cruel, uneducated people....

I will never understand a person brutally attacking somebody else for having an opinion. What's wrong with an opinion??? Should some of us keep them to ourselves- absolutely... but that doesn't mean they need to be committed.

As for Kyoto, it was never a good idea. I don't truly believe most of the countries who signed actually thought it was a good idea. But they signed it because they wanted to stay in line with the rest of the world and believe that like most other UN protocols it would get forgotten and slip into the background. Until we have a real global body that has some legitimacy and isn't filled with a group of do-nothing embezzling bureaucrats, then I think we need to be dealing with this issue on a country or a regional basis. I personally think the US, Mexico, and Canada should form their own Kyoto style protocol (NAFTA style) to attempt to reduce our own emissions.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
I will never understand a person brutally attacking somebody else for having an opinion. What's wrong with an opinion??? Should some of us keep them to ourselves- absolutely... but that doesn't mean they need to be committed.
Referring to Hitler as "left" and suggesting that his policies had anything whatsoever in common with those of the next president Clinton is not merely an opinion, it is a complete disconnect from reality.:eek:
(Oh, and I have never heard of anyone who is "pro-abortion". A lot of us are pro-choice, of course, but that is in no way similar.)
 
astrodon

astrodon

Audioholic
I thought we put this global warming topic to bed a couple of months ago.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
It's like eating too much raw garlic, it keeps repeating.:D
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
The Next President Clinton, LOL!!! Joe you crack me up.:D You really think Billary is going to beat Obama for the DNC nomination?
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Buckeye, your liberal bashing and anti-global warming stance is becoming quite old. Considering the fact that the major talk shows (Ie. Rush, Glenn Beck, Schmidt, etc) and news media outfit FOX are all conservative you may want to rethink the term "liberal media".

you may find this entertaining and informative :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGEdDd5zsHo
Let's see FOX on the right, then on the left ABC, CBS, NBC, MTV, MSNBC, C-SPAN, HDN (Dan Rather's new hangout), CNBC, CNN, BBC-A and finally Comedy Channel (Jon Stewart, Colbert Report), sorry Gene, the US media developed a left slant in the mid 1960s and its still running hot. Limbaugh is really the bulwark against the onslaught on the left, Beck on CNN is inconsequential (used as a ploy to get FOX audience, Beck isn't a conservative as much as he's middle of the road), none of the above networks can be classified as neutral much less conservative.

UCLA (no bastion of conservatism) did research and found some interesting points, read this:

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Let's see FOX on the right, then on the left ABC, CBS, NBC, MTV, MSNBC, C-SPAN, HDN (Dan Rather's new hangout), CNBC, CNN, BBC-A and finally Comedy Channel (Jon Stewart, Colbert Report), sorry Gene, the US media developed a left slant in the mid 1960s and its still running hot. Limbaugh is really the bulwark against the onslaught on the left, Beck on CNN is inconsequential (used as a ploy to get FOX audience, Beck isn't a conservative as much as he's middle of the road), none of the above networks can be classified as neutral much less conservative.

UCLA (no bastion of conservatism) did research and found some interesting points, read this:

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/...UCLA-6664.aspx
Beck is far from middle of the road when you listen to his ideals but thats beside the point. Fox is the biggest of all the media outlets and is heavily conservative.

As for the UCLA study, it was mostly bogus:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200512220003

I am not here to debate the state of the media as much as draw attention to the fact that lately it seems every other thread started by Buckeye is against "liberals", "global warming", etc and its beyond getting old. It would be nice to give it a rest for awhile and realize extremism on either side isn't healthy.
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Let's see FOX on the right, then on the left ABC, CBS, NBC, MTV, MSNBC, C-SPAN, HDN (Dan Rather's new hangout), CNBC, CNN, BBC-A and finally Comedy Channel (Jon Stewart, Colbert Report), sorry Gene, the US media developed a left slant in the mid 1960s and its still running hot. Limbaugh is really the bulwark against the onslaught on the left, Beck on CNN is inconsequential (used as a ploy to get FOX audience, Beck isn't a conservative as much as he's middle of the road), none of the above networks can be classified as neutral much less conservative.

UCLA (no bastion of conservatism) did research and found some interesting points, read this:

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
LOL....when I refer to Liberal media....that pretty much includes everything on TV and in print(newspapers/magazines). The only real exceptions to liberal media are talk radio and conservative internet blogs.

Geez....I even think Fox News leans too far to the left!!
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
I am not here to debate the state of the media as much as draw attention to the fact that lately it seems every other thread started by Buckeye is against "liberals", "global warming", etc and its beyond getting old. It would be nice to give it a rest for awhile and realize extremism on either side isn't healthy.
That's an entirely different matter.

MediaMatters is a progressive basically anti-conservative organization, so as far as their calling the study "bogus" I'd have to disagree.
 
T

tbewick

Senior Audioholic
While it's quite evident that China has problems with smog and things like that, it is worth noting the progress the Chinese government is making in combating climate change:

'Senator THOMAS. None of you mentioned particularly what some of the things are that we’re doing now. We have a coal plant in my State that’s going to eliminate CO2. We’re going to move more toward nuclear. We’re doing quite a little bit, moving toward automobiles and so on. Do you think we’re making progress at this point?

Mr. STERN. Yes, I do. If I might return to the issue of China in that context that Senator Domenici raised: we’ve traveled a great deal since the publication of the Review, and indeed prior to publication of the Review we did visit the biggest countries around the world from this perspective—including the United States, India and China—and we went back there after the Review. We spent a lot of time in China explaining and underlining and emphasizing that the United States is taking strong action. We pointed to the examples of California. We pointed to examples of the Northeastern States. We pointed to the importance of the technology investment and research that the United States is taking, and that is a big part of our argument in China. But also when we come here to the United States we emphasize just how much China is doing. If I could give you just a few examples, it’s a very important context for the whole story. They’re building collaboration.

China is no longer deforesting. It is now reforesting. China has, as I mentioned in my testimony, a 20 percent reduction in the energy intensity target within 5 years. Their eleventh 5-year plan started last year and they’re implementing and working on that in a very strong way—for example, through direct targets for the 1,000 biggest firms in China, recently extended considerably to below our tier terms. You cannot sell an American car in China because it doesn’t meet the emissions standards, which are pretty high. Beijing has made $8,000 tax on SUVs. China in late November, early December instituted an export tax on energy-intensive goods, such as aluminum, steel and cement. So China is grappling with this problem. There’s a tremendous amount more that many of us believe it should be doing but I think it’s not correct to say that China is doing nothing, and we try to explain through the examples I’ve just given how China is beginning to get its arms around this problem. Just as when we are in China, we emphasize very strongly what the United States is doing.'

Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources: Hearings – 110th Congress. S. Hrg 110-52 -- Economics of Climate Change, February 13, 2007. Page 44.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_senate_hearings&docid=f:35906.pdf

Alamar's description of the Kyoto Protocol being 'a waste of time' is, in my view, rather unfair. I've found this article by Cameron Hepburn on the Kyoto Protocol quite helpful. He argues that the carbon trading system used in the EU Emissions Trading Scheme (one of the Kyoto Protocol's Flexibility Mechanisms) may provide a basis for future climate policy:

'Climate change is a market failure without parallel, on the “greatest scale the world has seen” (1), so it is not surprising that the ETS created to address it should eventually be seen as representing the world's greatest ever privatization of a natural asset. Despite this, current carbon markets represent a very small and highly imperfect step. Indeed, one of the most pressing challenges in climate policy over the next decade, once the manifest and serious flaws in the current system are corrected, is to increase the scope of emissions trading to cover more countries, more sectors, and over longer time periods. Ultimately, caps must be tightened to improve environmental effectiveness, and allowances must auctioned to address serious inefficiencies in allocation and important issues of fairness.

Other climate policies are, of course, available and well understood, including regulation, carbon taxes, and information provision. These approaches will continue to play an important role. But extraordinary human, social, and negotiating capital has been invested in the institutions of the flexible mechanisms under the Kyoto Protocol. Although the flexible mechanisms currently have some serious problems, they nevertheless provide a very important basis on which to construct a more sensible and effective global climate policy.'

Hepburn, C. (2007) 'Carbon trading: a review of the Kyoto mechanisms', Annual Review of Environment and Resources, Vol 32, 375-393.
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/eprint/V5uDHeDwvfmeMnr3IuPZ/full/10.1146/annurev.energy.32.053006.141203
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Of course the "National Socialist Party" wasn't socialist. Let's see what the party platform demanded in terms of public policy.

#11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

#12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

#13. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

#14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

#15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

#16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

#17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

#20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

#21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

#24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination.

That sounds pretty darned left-wing socialist to me.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I bet I could say anything I wanted right now, and no one would care. You're all too busy beating the same old bush (pun'd), except this bush is bamboo, it doesn't go away.

All of you SFTU, and would someone ban Buckeye? Or remove his thread starting rights?

SheepStar
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
I think we ought to settle this the old-fashioned way. We'll put Buckeye_Nut and Joe Schmoe in a room together, let them duke it out (sorry for the reference, Dukester), and the one that walks out of the room is the righteous winner. :eek: We could also have a sideshow, or preliminary bout, with Gene vs. Clint. Minor prizes for correctness will be awarded to the preliminary bout victor. ;)

I guess I'd put my money on Buckeye_Nut, since Joe Schmoe is a peace loving, anti-war (except viscious-verbal) activist. If insults are allowed, I'd have to give the edge to Joe, though.

:D
 
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stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Well at least its being kept in the steam vent.:D Hey Sheepster I'll be up in Toronto on the 26th, then Quebec till about Jan. 2nd.
 
I am not here to debate the state of the media as much as draw attention to the fact that lately it seems every other thread started by Buckeye is against "liberals", "global warming", etc and its beyond getting old. It would be nice to give it a rest for awhile and realize extremism on either side isn't healthy.
Gene and I have discussions all the time, and from opposing viewpoints - but one thing we agree on is that there is often more than meets the eye with regards to topics and issues at hand. There is a God and neither of us are him - meaning we have limited knowledge on all these topics.

Rarely do we have all the fact required to make truly dogmatic and authoritative arguments. And if we get too riled up, emotion gets involved and clouds over everything - especially the facts.

Buckeye, while I often agree with many of your basic principles, you aren't doing anyone any favors by presenting your arguments in a completely one-sided, flame-baiting manner. We've tried to guide you in the past but you don't seem to pick up on our "subtle" hints. Here's one more:

You're not helping your cause - and your points are being drowned out by the very flame-baiting posts you make. Try a more humble approach...
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
We could also have a sideshow, or preliminary bout, with Gene vs. Clint. Minor prizes for correctness will be awarded to the preliminary bout victor.
That wouldn't be fair for Clint as I outmass him by at least 50lbs unless of course he is a master of martial arts NOT counting video games :)
 
Alamar

Alamar

Full Audioholic
Alamar's description of the Kyoto Protocol being 'a waste of time' is, in my view, rather unfair.
Are there hard numbers indicating emission reductions resulting from Kyoto? If so then I retract my statement.

IMHO I think everyone needs to get more serious than the playing around that we saw with Kyoto. Buying up carbon credits is just an excuse to get around having to reduce emissions.

*********************************

I am not here to debate the state of the media as much as draw attention to the fact that lately it seems every other thread started by Buckeye is against "liberals", "global warming", etc and its beyond getting old. It would be nice to give it a rest for awhile and realize extremism on either side isn't healthy.
IMHO we need at least a few extremists to keep the rest of us honest on certain issues. For example I can easily understand the people that donate both to the ACLU && NRA just so they don't see rights on either end of the liberal vs. conservative spectrums being eroded.

Of course too much of a good thing is almost always bad :)
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
For example I can easily understand the people that donate both to the ACLU && NRA
Technically....that is possible. The ACLU has completely ignored the 2nd amendment and our right to bear arms.

The ACLU position, as they call it, is "Gun Neutrality"......LOL When it comes to 2nd Amendment rights....... the ACLU is absolutely silent. A bit hypocritical, don't you think?
 

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