Pro Power Amplifiers vs HT Power Amplifiers.

[Bluesmoke]

Yeah, I've heard a buncha stories like that... people sending back old amps to Crown and they repair them for cheap. They have a whole tech department that is just for customer support, and they don't seem to care how big or small of a customer you are. They are also really helpful with selecting an amp; If you call them up and give them your speaker specs, application, preferences and budget, they'll really help you narrow down the right product.

As far as Behringer, I've heard that too, but I'm not sure how valid it is. The lawsuit Mackie filed was settled out of court. The settlement amount I don't know, I've heard all kinds of numbers. Just last year they were fined by the FCC for a million... something about radiation, haha.




Haha, you are I are SO on the same page.



Here is a list of THX-Certified cinema amps (and speakers, the amps are listed at the bottom) for Fall '07:
http://www.thx.com/products/professional/pdf/ApprovedEquipList.pdf
(obviously there are other awesome pro amps, this is just their list)

So, my Crown XLS402 is THX certified for cinema use

I find that list curious. The Crown XLS 202 is listed at 200w @ 8ohm stereo. But it isn't certified, while the 402 is. I can think of many 100w+ (less than 200w) Home amps (Rotel, Parasound, Marantz) that have THX Ultra cert.

 

[cbraver]

I find that list curious. The Crown XLS 202 is listed at 200w @ 8ohm stereo. But it isn't certified, while the 402 is. I can think of many 100w+ (less than 200w) Home amps (Rotel, Parasound, Marantz) that have THX Ultra cert.

Nod. That list is for THX certified cinema, not home. Different certification.

 

[Bluesmoke]

So, would I be gaining anything by going with the 402 over the 202? My equipment is in my sig. Room is medium at best.

 

[cbraver]

So, would I be gaining anything by going with the 402 over the 202? My equipment is in my sig. Room is medium at best.

Depends how much headroom you want, how loud you watch movies/listen to music and the capabilities of your speakers. Let's start with approaching it from the SPL side of things. Crown has a recommendation on their website that for a home stereo: 150W for a 85dB SPL average (with 15dB peaks), 1500W for 95dB SPL average (with 15dB peaks) ... 10x what it took to get to 85dB, and basically twice as loud. 85dB is loud, 95dB average is VERY loud (like, peak hour in a nightclub loud). The latter your loudspeakers wouldn't handle....

Now let's look at it from the perspective of your loudspeakers: For your RC-30s, I see 200W power capacity/IEC at 8ohms from Energy's website. Crown recommends between 1.6-2.5x your speakers power rating. So, say 2x and your at 400W per their recommendation. You're probably saying "that sounds like a good way to have a voice coil sitting on my lab," but that is controlled by your hand on the volume key. You're more likely to blow your speakers up by underpowering them... with too much power your danger is reaching the suspension limit of your speaker cones.

Max rms for your speakers, according to Energy, is 200w. Right now you're powering them with 105W according to Yamaha, but probably less. With a XLS 202, your going to get 200W per channel at 8ohms. Stepping up to the 402 would be nice for the extra headroom, but certainly not essential. Either one is going to make those RC-30s come alive (it'll blow your mind what a little power can do). The 202 has a 30 dollar rebate, and the 402 as a 60 dollar rebate. So the difference in price is really 70 dollars. You're call.

Are you repowering the whole system, just the mains or just lookin?

 

[WmAx]

So, would I be gaining anything by going with the 402 over the 202? My equipment is in my sig. Room is medium at best.

I have a couple of Crown XLS D amplifiers. It should be noted that they are not built to the same high standard of parts and design as compared to Behringer EP amplifiers or QSC RMX. I mean this to include everything from PCB quality, to heat sinking, to power supply capacity, to chassis build to binding posts. But the XLS amplifiers would be fine in a home environment.

-Chris

 

[cbraver]

I have a couple of Crown XLS D amplifiers. It should be noted that they are not built to the same high standard of parts and design as compared to Behringer EP amplifiers or QSC RMX. I mean this to include everything from PCB quality, to heat sinking, to power supply capacity, to chassis build to binding posts. But the XLS amplifiers would be fine in a home environment.

-Chris

Um. Have you ever looked inside a Europower amp? It's horrible. I disagree with you.

 

[WmAx]

I should be more careful not to knock products forum members might own.

Behringers bad repretation is in the pro-sound industry. Their amps are inexpensive, but don't hold up to nightclub, live-sound and other proaudio applications. They are, however, popular in gyms and churches that are on a budget (although my gym switched to Crown amps and JBL 15s). They might be alright for certain applications, but I can't recommend them to anyone.

It's really a non-issue because for 100-200 bucks more you can get into an entry level Crown or Mackie that will out perform it without breaking a sweat. QSC, what fmw recommended, has some great stuff for the money too.

How interesting. I have owned numerous Behringer products, two of which, were amplifiers. The EP2500, a popular PA amp by Behringer, is built to very high standards. I have one of these. It uses high quality components through out, a hefty heat removal system, has a huge power supply, and uses a mil spec PCB with multi-layer redundant traces with each component soldered twice, once to each layer. I can say, without reservation, it is built to a higher structural quality standard than any home amplifier I have ever had, including my old McIntosh MC754s and better than my Adcom 555. It is built better than my Crown XLS D amplifiers. Substantially better.

I have owned (and do own) several Behringer devices. Most of them use parts/construction well above anything I have seen from other brands in the same price range.

I have not read credible data about Behringer being 'unreliable junk'. But instead, usually just repeated myths.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Um. Have you ever looked inside a Europower amp? It's horrible. I disagree with you.

Horrible in what way? I fail to see the issue. In fact, the EP amplifiers are almost identical in overall design/quality as the QSC units from which they were inspired. The QSC might have a marginally better aspect - in some way - but I am not sure. I think the QSCs use what looks to be a little bit better internal wire connections - for whatever that counts. The QSC transformer looks a little bigger - but even that is hard to judge since they seem to use different number or primary tap units as compared to each other. And the Behringer measures excellent on the test bench by credible 3rd party tester on the AVS forum. Have you ever looked inside of a Crown XLS amp? Now that is not something I expect in a pro amp. It uses standard single side PCB, it uses cheap binding posts(regular banana plugs don't fit the banana jacks unless you bend out the plugs -- and the wire hole can not even accommodate 12AWG) and the power transistor heatsinks are directly supported by the PCB. A big no no for G-force shocks that can aid in fracturing the PCB circuits.

-Chris

 

[Seth=L]

I find that list curious. The Crown XLS 202 is listed at 200w @ 8ohm stereo. But it isn't certified, while the 402 is. I can think of many 100w+ (less than 200w) Home amps (Rotel, Parasound, Marantz) that have THX Ultra cert.

THX certified pro gear is rated for different criteria. Those amplifiers are used in much larger environments with a different type of speaker system. Movie theaters are the best example of this type of use. The room size is a large determinate in the difference of factors.